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General Boards => General Discussion => Topic started by: Boid Brain on June 08, 2011, 01:32:19 AM

Title: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: Boid Brain on June 08, 2011, 01:32:19 AM
Most everybody knows that the Brady Bunch dad and Miss Hathaway were gay/les, but there was one classic sitcom that had 3 gay cast members. Can you think of it?

A hint: the show had a large cast of regular and frequently featured members.

No Googling!
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: shemps#1 on June 08, 2011, 01:48:57 AM
I'll take a shot in the dark and say Soap.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: Boid Brain on June 08, 2011, 02:03:42 AM
I'll take a shot in the dark and say Soap.
Well, I can't say for sure that that's wrong as I don't know. But It is not the show I'm thinking of. This show was far more successful and longer running that 'Soap'
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: shemps#1 on June 08, 2011, 02:08:29 AM
Cheers?
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: Boid Brain on June 08, 2011, 02:15:51 AM
Cheers?
Not Cheers....I'm wondering why you guessed those 2 shows as I can't think of any Gays from them. Do you know something I don't?

BTW, I can think of a show with 2 gays: Andy Griffith. (it just came to me)
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: xraffle on June 08, 2011, 09:24:15 AM
I did not know that Robert Reed was gay.

One classic show I can think of is "Bewitched." Dick Sargent was gay in real life, which is a shame because Elizabeth Montgomery was such a beautiful actress. Sargent didn't know how lucky he was to be working with her.

I know this doesn't answer Boid's question, but I'd just thought I'd point out that piece of trivia since we're on the topic of gay casts.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: ILMM on June 08, 2011, 11:55:05 AM
Frasier.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: Boid Brain on June 08, 2011, 12:14:08 PM
I did not know that Robert Reed was gay.

One classic show I can think of is "Bewitched." Dick Sargent was gay in real life, which is a shame because Elizabeth Montgomery was such a beautiful actress. Sargent didn't know how lucky he was to be working with her.

I know this doesn't answer Boid's question, but I'd just thought I'd point out that piece of trivia since we're on the topic of gay casts.
WOW! Correct,,,it was Bewitched,,,,Paul Linde and Agnes Moorehead were the other 2.

Yes, Reed was a flaming queer. Henderson talked a lot about it on the VH1 show about the Bradey Bunch.

There was talk that the kid that played Tabitha ended up a dyke, bringing the total to 4, and the English dude too. But after much research I can't validate that.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: Boid Brain on June 08, 2011, 12:15:10 PM
Frasier.
Not a "classic" sitcom
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: xraffle on June 08, 2011, 01:11:49 PM
WOW! Correct,,,it was Bewitched,,,,Paul Linde and Agnes Moorehead were the other 2.

Yes, Reed was a flaming queer. Henderson talked a lot about it on the VH1 show about the Bradey Bunch.

There was talk that the kid that played Tabitha ended up a dyke, bringing the total to 4, and the English dude too. But after much research I can't validate that.

LOL! The was weird. I wasn't even answering the question. :laugh:

And I didn't know Paul Lynde and Agnes Moorehead were gay. I guess I'm not very good at figuring out a person's sexual orientation. :-\
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: shemps#1 on June 08, 2011, 03:26:05 PM
Erin Murphy is straight so I don't know where you are getting that from. Agnes Moorehead was not gay either; that was rumor and there is nothing to substantiate it. In fact, Ms. Moorehead was very religious if I remember right....the conservative Bible-banger type. I think I had read somewhere that she would read Bible stories to the kids on the set.

So X didn't know Paul Lynde was gay and Boid didn't know Jim (Jm) J Bullock was gay....are you guys blind? LOL Both Lynde and Bullock were/are so flaming they are prohibited from entering forests for fear of starting fires.

Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: shemps#1 on June 08, 2011, 03:35:17 PM

One classic show I can think of is "Bewitched." Dick Sargent was gay in real life, which is a shame because Elizabeth Montgomery was such a beautiful actress. Sargent didn't know how lucky he was to be working with her.


Hold the phone; I almost missed this. What does Elizabeth Montgomery's "beauty" (I agree btw, she was gorgeous) have to do with Dick Sargent being gay? Do you think Sargent should have been boning her on the set? Dick Sargent didn't "choose" to be gay, nobody does: just like you don't "choose" to be attracted to women (I assume). It's in the DNA and should not even matter as far as working on the set in a professional manner. Montgomery might have been gorgeous but I hardly think she was sitting there spread eagle on the set awaiting Dick Sargent to fuck her brains out.

What a horrible and ignorant thing to say.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: Curly4444 on June 08, 2011, 03:42:34 PM
Quote
Fraiser

Not a "classic" sitcom

Not Yet!
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: BeAStooge on June 08, 2011, 04:25:52 PM
Erin Murphy is straight so I don't know where you are getting that from. Agnes Moorehead was not gay either; that was rumor and there is nothing to substantiate it. In fact, Ms. Moorehead was very religious if I remember right....the conservative Bible-banger type. I think I had read somewhere that she would read Bible stories to the kids on the set.

Correct on Ms. Moorehead.

Erin's fraternal twin sister Diane is gay, and very active in California and national politics, ref. gay rights. Erin and Diane shared the role of 'Tabitha' in the 3rd season, but at 2-years-old grew out of their physical similarities. Diane subbed for her sister a couple times due to illness, and was a frequent extra in scenes with children, but as of the 4th season Erin was the sole 'Tabitha.'
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: Boid Brain on June 08, 2011, 05:23:46 PM
Correct on Ms. Moorehead.

Erin's fraternal twin sister Diane is gay, and very active in California and national politics, ref. gay rights. Erin and Diane shared the role of 'Tabitha' in the 3rd season, but at 2-years-old grew out of their physical similarities. Diane subbed for her sister a couple times due to illness, and was a frequent extra in scenes with children, but as of the 4th season Erin was the sole 'Tabitha.'
Ah ha! Good info. But it does confirm that Tabitha was a bull dyke. It don't matter how many times she played her.

And Shemps: Of course I knew Bullock was flaming later on watching Hollywood squares. Ditto Linde. Oh, and why are you dodging the Keller thread?
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: Curly4444 on June 08, 2011, 05:27:50 PM
bull dyke??  Is that like the term Butch?
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: xraffle on June 08, 2011, 05:32:28 PM
Erin Murphy is straight so I don't know where you are getting that from. Agnes Moorehead was not gay either; that was rumor and there is nothing to substantiate it. In fact, Ms. Moorehead was very religious if I remember right....the conservative Bible-banger type. I think I had read somewhere that she would read Bible stories to the kids on the set.

So X didn't know Paul Lynde was gay and Boid didn't know Jim (Jm) J Bullock was gay....are you guys blind? LOL Both Lynde and Bullock were/are so flaming they are prohibited from entering forests for fear of starting fires.

I don't really read into this stuff and I really couldn't care less who is gay or not, to be honest. So, that's why I'm blinded when it comes to stuff like this.



Hold the phone; I almost missed this. What does Elizabeth Montgomery's "beauty" (I agree btw, she was gorgeous) have to do with Dick Sargent being gay? Do you think Sargent should have been boning her on the set? Dick Sargent didn't "choose" to be gay, nobody does: just like you don't "choose" to be attracted to women (I assume). It's in the DNA and should not even matter as far as working on the set in a professional manner. Montgomery might have been gorgeous but I hardly think she was sitting there spread eagle on the set awaiting Dick Sargent to fuck her brains out.

What a horrible and ignorant thing to say.

Wow! Didn't expect to anger anyone. Sorry if I did. And no, I didn't expect Sargent to be banging anyone on the set. Then again, assuming Dick York was straight, I don't think he was banging Elizabeth Montgomery either. I think you read into my post too much and I think that was partly my fault for the way I worded things. I think Boid's excessive fascination towards women is getting contagious and I'm catching it.

Whether being gay is in the DNA or not, I honestly don't know. I don't know what makes a person gay and why they are like that. So, you're correct. I am ignorant on the subject. I will refrain from posting on this subject because it can lead to further controversy. My post was offensive and I do apologize for those whom I've offended.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: xraffle on June 08, 2011, 05:43:09 PM
Errr Boid, you are going to get me in big trouble one day.  >:(
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: metaldams on June 08, 2011, 05:44:16 PM
Ah ha! Good info. But it does confirm that Tabitha was a bull dyke.

Man, seriously Boid?

Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: shemps#1 on June 08, 2011, 06:27:55 PM
It completely slipped my mind that there were two Tabitha's early on. Erin and Diane can be added to the twins thread I guess.

Is it really necessary to use the term "bull dyke" Boid? Not only is it antiquated but it continues to make you look an ignorant fool. I didn't know I was dodging any thread.

X - it doesn't matter to me who is gay or not except for whom I sleep with. With that said it's impossible not to tell that Paul Lynde was gay. Short of announcing it or getting "I love cock" tattooed in purple on his forehead there wasn't much more he could do to be more out and flaming. I wasn't angry at you at all, it's just that the post was ignorant and yes...offensive. You made it sound like Montgomery's beauty would be enough to turn a gay man straight or that Sargent somehow did something wrong by being gay. I'm not even gay and I found it offensive.

You should study the facts about homosexuality: nothing "makes" a person gay just like nothing "makes" a person straight or bi. If I'm ignorant on a subject I always research it. You did man up and own it so no problem there.

Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: Boid Brain on June 08, 2011, 06:53:40 PM
Errr Boid, you are going to get me in big trouble one day.  >:(
Me!!?? Raffy, this started out as an innocent thread about the little known twin of Sarah Conner. It has mutated to this level due to it's contributors, several of whom are sick fucks. (not excluding myself)

Don't worry about Shemps: there is no way in the world to calculate which direction his mind will spin off to...why, I tried to insult him once by calling him a hatchet man and he muzzled me like Bobby Seale and proceded to make "Hatchet Man" his sig under the image of an angelic child! (He has issues)

Metal: what's wrong with 'bull dyke'? I think it's a damn funny term. Some of my best friends are bull dykes! (see my 1st wife, no joke)

Raffy: to say a man is obsessed with women is like saying a lion is obsessed with meat.

Finally S#1: I know that you read every fucking word that is typed here, and you are DEFINATELY avoiding the Keller thread. I gotta figure that it's because you have difficulty wrapping your mind around things that you don't think about because you don't think about things that you don't think about! (did you get THAT reference Criswell?)




(https://threestooges.net/forums/Themes/default/images/warnban.gif) It was inevitable. S#1
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: shemps#1 on June 08, 2011, 06:59:40 PM
That's it; I've had enough.

To the surprise of absolutely no one I am banning you, Boid. You poke the sleeping tiger and sooner or later you're going to get bit.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: Curly4444 on June 08, 2011, 07:04:10 PM
Quote
That's it; I've had enough.

To the surprise of absolutely no one I am banning you, Boid. You poke the sleeping tiger and sooner or later you're going to get bit.

Hahah, you beat me too it. I was just going to post, "nice knowing you Boid Brain".  ;D
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: xraffle on June 08, 2011, 07:10:33 PM
this started out as an innocent thread about the little known twin of Sarah Conner.

I'm confused. Maybe someone here can clarify. What does this thread have to do with the Sarah Conner/Leslie Hamilton discussion? Was the thread split or something?  ???
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: shemps#1 on June 08, 2011, 07:13:57 PM
No, he's a fuckin' idiot. They are two separate threads.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: xraffle on June 08, 2011, 08:23:22 PM
You made it sound like Montgomery's beauty would be enough to turn a gay man straight or that Sargent somehow did something wrong by being gay. I'm not even gay and I found it offensive.

It was neither. I just meant he was lucky. He played her wife in the show and got to hug and kiss her on screen. Yeah, it was an immature thing of me to say and it did come out offensive when I didn't intend it to.

I have nothing against gay people as long as the men don't hit on me. If they're happy with whomever they're with, then good for them.

Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: shemps#1 on June 08, 2011, 08:38:48 PM
Out of curiosity, why did you have to add "as long as the men don't hit on me"? Do you think that all gay guys are sexual predators looking to bang any man they see? Do you have such a high opinion of your physical appearance that you feel gay guys will find you irresistable?

Also (and remember I'm not chastising you or anything, just curious), if a gay dude were to hit on you what would you do? Try to beat him up? Would you be verbally abusive, calling him a fag? I've been hit on by gay dudes before and I treated it as if I were hit on by a straight woman I wasn't interested in: I was flattered and smiled (laughed was more like it because I find it funny when anyone hits me: not a common occurrence) and did not pursue it.

Gay people are just you and I, the only superficial difference is that they are sexually attracted to the same sex: and just like straight people they are not attracted to every member of their preferred sex.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: xraffle on June 08, 2011, 08:42:13 PM
It seems like everything I'm saying is turning out offensive, so I'm going to bow out and not explain myself anymore. Nothing personal, but I think it's safer that I don't comment on the subject anymore. I hope you can understand.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: Curly4444 on June 08, 2011, 09:00:47 PM
Quote
Out of curiosity, why did you have to add "as long as the men don't hit on me"? Do you think that all gay guys are sexual predators looking to bang any man they see? Do you have such a high opinion of your physical appearance that you feel gay guys will find you irresistable?
I don't think he meant it that way. I kinda feel the same way. May be kinda homophobic, but it would be a little upsetting to be hit on by a man. I wouldn't hit him or anything, just would let him know i dont swing that way. It happen to me in college, and it wasn't a pleasant experience.  I just think they should find out first if you like the same sex before they hit on you.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: shemps#1 on June 08, 2011, 09:13:37 PM
Yeah it is kinda homophobic; after all if an unattractive woman hit on you would you feel the same way? It's not like you're going to go out for a round of gay bashing tonight or anything but it is a bit prejudiced. Should everybody have to announce their sexual preferences wherever they go?
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: Curly4444 on June 08, 2011, 09:35:39 PM
Quote
Should everybody have to announce their sexual preferences wherever they go?

Its an ideal world, no.

Quote
Yeah it is kinda homophobic; after all if an unattractive woman hit on you would you feel the same way? It's not like you're going to go out for a round of gay bashing tonight or anything but it is a bit prejudiced.

When its with an ugly woman, its still a woman. When its a guy its just makes you a million time more uncomfortable.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: shemps#1 on June 08, 2011, 09:40:42 PM
Its an ideal world, no.

When its with an ugly woman, its still a woman. When its a guy its just makes you a million time more uncomfortable.

It doesn't make me any more uncomfortable than if a woman I'm not interested in hits on me. Either way it's not a fun experience to reject someone's earnest advances.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: shemps#1 on June 08, 2011, 09:42:41 PM
It seems like everything I'm saying is turning out offensive, so I'm going to bow out and not explain myself anymore. Nothing personal, but I think it's safer that I don't comment on the subject anymore. I hope you can understand.

It can't be offensive if I ask you for your honest opinion.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: xraffle on June 08, 2011, 09:52:39 PM
Ok then, I'm probably putting a noose around my neck for continuing with this discussion, but since Curly4444 was brave enough to join along, I figured I'll post my opinion after all.

Curly4444 pretty much hit the nail on the head. It is sort of a homophobia that I have. I have nothing against them, but I just find it uncomfortable. And no, I've never been hit on by a guy before so I don't have this attitude where I think I'm so good looking, no man can resist me. I don't think any man has ever hit on me, but then again, I'm not the kind of person that judge's one's sexual orientation unless they openly say, "I'm gay! How about a date?" But that has never happened to me. If it did, I'd be a little uncomfortable, but of course, I will not get violent on them. I'd kindly say, I'm sorry, but I'm not gay. You're probably going to ask why I'll be uncomfortable. Well, because I'm not used to being hit on by men. Maybe if it were something that happened to me frequently, I'd be used to it. Like I said, it's never happened to me or maybe I just don't know the signs, I don't know.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: shemps#1 on June 08, 2011, 10:03:53 PM
See? That wasn't bad. I was just curious and I am always interested in the mindsets of those who think differently than I do. I don't think you're capable of violence towards gay people and I don't think you're evil.

If anything I would find it more comfortable to turn down a gay man because "sorry I'm straight" sounds a bit better than something like "sorry I think you're unattractive" (or worse) that you would say to a straight woman.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: metaldams on June 08, 2011, 10:48:27 PM
I was hit on by a guy once at a bar the night before my brother got married.  He was trying to get me to go over to his house for a "barbecue."  I was polite, but did my best to make sure he knew I wasn't interested.  Of course my brother and friends were laughing the whole time, but looking back at it, it's not like he touched me, I kept my distance, nobody got hurt, so it's not really a big deal.

Actually, I'll share something else, my ex-girlfriend is bi-sexual.  Before me, she was involved with another girl.  My parents are incredibly homophobic, and one time my Mom and I were watching some TV show where a guy was involved with a woman who was with another woman.  My Mom says to me, "I don't know how people can do that.  Wouldn't that make you feel uncomfortable?"  My mom obviously has no clue about my ex's past, but I think I just lightly laughed at the question.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: shemps#1 on June 08, 2011, 11:50:45 PM
Well I guess that makes us the crazy liberals of this thread, Doug.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: metaldams on June 08, 2011, 11:57:58 PM
Well I guess that makes us the crazy liberals of this thread, Doug.

One of us is crazy, and it's not you.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: shemps#1 on June 09, 2011, 12:01:36 AM
One of us is crazy, and it's not you.

Many, many people (whether on this site or in real life) would disagree with you on that one.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: xraffle on June 09, 2011, 08:04:02 AM
I must admit, the Catholic church is very prejudice against gays. If you even tell a priest that you’re gay, he’d want you to get help asap. They’re also against other stuff like using condoms, sex outside of marriage, and masturbation. They also believe that if you don’t confess your sins to a priest, you’ll go to hell. Sometimes I think they go a little too far sometimes. And because of that, my parents are totally against gay people since they’re very “religious.”
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: Seamus on June 09, 2011, 09:16:42 AM
I must admit, the Catholic church is very prejudice against gays. If you even tell a priest that you’re gay, he’d want you to get help asap. They’re also against other stuff like using condoms, sex outside of marriage, and masturbation. They also believe that if you don’t confess your sins to a priest, you’ll go to hell. Sometimes I think they go a little too far sometimes. And because of that, my parents are totally against gay people since they’re very “religious.”

It's interesting that while the Catholic church officially denounces all those "evils," most practicing Catholics I know tend to be more liberal when it comes to homosexuality, sex, contraception, etc.  If you ask them about the church's bizarre positions on, say, contraception, they get a little embarrassed and respond with something along the lines of, "Well, yeah, but...you know."  As always, the church is slow to keep up with the evolving moral attitudes of secular society, including those of its own members.

I'm an ex-Catholic myself.  I was even an alter boy for years (and never got inappropriately touched once!).

Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: Seamus on June 09, 2011, 09:38:10 AM
Actually, I'll share something else, my ex-girlfriend is bi-sexual.  Before me, she was involved with another girl. 


Wooo, hi five bro! [/raunchy frat boy]
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: Curly4444 on June 09, 2011, 09:55:27 AM
Quote
I must admit, the Catholic church is very prejudice against gays. If you even tell a priest that you’re gay, he’d want you to get help asap. They’re also against other stuff like using condoms, sex outside of marriage, and masturbation. They also believe that if you don’t confess your sins to a priest, you’ll go to hell. Sometimes I think they go a little too far sometimes. And because of that, my parents are totally against gay people since they’re very “religious.”

Maybe the priest should be allow to marry or do a little masturbation. Maybe then they'd leave the little boys alone.


Quote
Wooo, hi five bro! [/raunchy frat boy]

Maybe he shouldn't have dumped her. Can you say threesome??  >:D >:D
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: xraffle on June 09, 2011, 09:58:26 AM
Maybe he shouldn't have dumped her. Can you say threesome??  >:D >:D

Why would you think of such a thing? The thought never even entered my mind. :P
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: Curly4444 on June 09, 2011, 10:00:59 AM
Why would you think of such a thing? The thought never even entered my mind. :P
What you never heard of guy+girl+girl??  What, that aint every guys fantasy?  ;D :laugh: I think that was why seamus was hi-fiving metaldams?
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: metaldams on June 09, 2011, 10:33:10 AM
Oh believe me, the thought entered my mind several times.  Never her's, though, so no high fives for me.   

The only reason why I feel comfortable saying this is because names are anonymous, since I wouldn't bring this stuff up if people knew who she was, but actually, the whole bi-sexuality thing wasn't a comfortable issue with her because, well, like others have mentioned in this thread, she's Catholic, and with that comes guilt.

Another thing that has been mentioned in this thread is that sexuality is a chemical thing, not a choice, and that makes the idea of being guilty over something one can't control ridiculous.

Seamus, I'm an ex-Catholic myself, and I'm glad I wasn't an altar boy.  One of the priests in my church growing up actually did molest children.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: metaldams on June 09, 2011, 10:34:52 AM
What you never heard of guy+girl+girl??  What, that aint every guys fantasy?  ;D :laugh: I think that was why seamus was hi-fiving Shemps#1?

1.)  I think x was only kidding, hence the smiley.

2.) I was the one being high fived.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: xraffle on June 09, 2011, 10:46:28 AM
1.)  I think x was only kidding, hence the smiley.

I was. ;D
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: xraffle on June 09, 2011, 10:56:57 AM
Seamus, I'm an ex-Catholic myself, and I'm glad I wasn't an altar boy.  One of the priests in my church growing up actually did molest children.

I'm sorry to hear that.

This never happened at my church yet. But one thing does bother me though. My pastor (which is the priest in charge of a particular church) likes to wave at little kids while processing down the aisle at the beginning and at the end of the masses. It could be a harmless little wave, but the fact that he’s only acknowledging little kids as he processes does disturb me at times. Even if it means nothing, he should avoid doing that because of all the scandals going on. He could give the wrong impression.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: Curly4444 on June 09, 2011, 11:02:42 AM
1.)  I think x was only kidding, hence the smiley.

2.) I was the one being high fived.

1.) I cant believe i missed that, just didnt get he was kidding from that smiley.

2.) Don't know why i put Shemps#1 in there. I meant to say you. I went back and fixed it.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: ThunderStooge on June 09, 2011, 12:57:25 PM
Started off as a trivia question about Sitcoms and homosexuality, then the 'sitcoms' pat of the discussion was dropped, eventually, the Boid finally meeting his fate.  I should not be surprised in the direction this thread went.  No matter what forum, it always seems to happen whenever a sensitive topic is involved. 

This is why I tend to avoid discussions like these.  But I might as well offer my two cents.  I am honestly indifferent about the whole issue.  If you're gay, bi, straight, I have no problem.  I will admit that I too would feel a little uncomfortable if someone of the same sex tried to hit on me, but I would be polite, and say "Sorry, I'm not interested."  And if we share a few hobbies, I would ask if we could be friends.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: Seamus on June 09, 2011, 01:14:16 PM
When my wife introduced me to a gay colleague of hers a while back, he immediately gushed, "Oh, he's cuuuuuute!" then went on to tell me how popular I'd be at one of the local gay college bars.  I felt nothing but flattery.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: metaldams on June 09, 2011, 01:21:23 PM
Started off as a trivia question about Sitcoms and homosexuality, then the 'sitcoms' pat of the discussion was dropped, eventually, the Boid finally meeting his fate.  I should not be surprised in the direction this thread went.  No matter what forum, it always seems to happen whenever a sensitive topic is involved. 

This is why I tend to avoid discussions like these.  But I might as well offer my two cents.  I am honestly indifferent about the whole issue.  If you're gay, bi, straight, I have no problem.  I will admit that I too would feel a little uncomfortable if someone of the same sex tried to hit on me, but I would be polite, and say "Sorry, I'm not interested."  And if we share a few hobbies, I would ask if we could be friends.

I think Boid was scheduled to meet his fate for a long time now, this thread was just the final straw.

Also, I think this is actually an interesting discussion, I have no problems with controversial topics when discussed intelligently. 
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: Seamus on June 09, 2011, 01:48:53 PM
Also, I think this is actually an interesting discussion, I have no problems with controversial topics when discussed intelligently. 

Agreed.  And besides, homosexuality itself is becoming less controversial by the day, thank goodness.  The only real controversy in this thread was the crass homophobic slurs that Boid had a habit of dropping all over this board like napalm. 
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: metaldams on June 09, 2011, 01:58:58 PM
I'm sorry to hear that.

This never happened at my church yet. But one thing does bother me though. My pastor (which is the priest in charge of a particular church) likes to wave at little kids while processing down the aisle at the beginning and at the end of the masses. It could be a harmless little wave, but the fact that he’s only acknowledging little kids as he processes does disturb me at times. Even if it means nothing, he should avoid doing that because of all the scandals going on. He could give the wrong impression.

In my church as a kid, another one of the priests would have a section of the mass where he'd invite all the children up on the altar to sit around him as he did the homily.  To my knowledge, this particular priest never molested children, but needless to say, once the scandal with the other priest happened, the children coming up to the altar stopped.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: shemps#1 on June 09, 2011, 03:57:07 PM
Quad 4's beat me to the punch in regards to priests molesting children, damn it! :p

My parents were both raised Catholic but my late mother made it point to not indoctrinate us children and did not take us to church or force feed us faith. She let us decide on our own and the results were two atheists and a "spiritual but not religious". My mother also fell into the later category and my father is one of those "lapsed Catholics" that never goes to church unless his wife is helping out with bingo. I find the Catholic Church to be utterly vile, moreso than most Christian sects.

I hate to sound like a braggart or a shit or a pig but all I'll say is this: I SHOULD have been high-fived instead of Doug.

I knew it was a only a matter of time before Boid got himself banned. I have only come across a person so clueless on these boards once in all my years, and that other person has an archive board in honor of his idiocy on this very forum. I gave him more than enough chances, perhaps too many, but better to throw him out late than never.

I concur with the "controversial topics": I am very interested in public discourse, which is why I pressed X for clarification on his stance.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: Curly4444 on June 09, 2011, 04:15:59 PM
I'm also one of those spiritual but not religious Catholics. I think if they let the priest marry, loosened up on all that outrageous shit, they get alot more believers. But those money grubbers in the Vatican wouldn't like that. I believe in god, just not a big lover of organized religion.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: metaldams on June 09, 2011, 04:27:24 PM
Quad 4's beat me to the punch in regards to priests molesting children, damn it! :p

My parents were both raised Catholic but my late mother made it point to not indoctrinate us children and did not take us to church or force feed us faith. She let us decide on our own and the results were two atheists and a "spiritual but not religious". My mother also fell into the later category and my father is one of those "lapsed Catholics" that never goes to church unless his wife is helping out with bingo. I find the Catholic Church to be utterly vile, moreso than most Christian sects.

I hate to sound like a braggart or a shit or a pig but all I'll say is this: I SHOULD have been high-fived instead of Doug.

I knew it was a only a matter of time before Boid got himself banned. I have only come across a person so clueless on these boards once in all my years, and that other person has an archive board in honor of his idiocy on this very forum. I gave him more than enough chances, perhaps too many, but better to throw him out late than never.

I concur with the "controversial topics": I am very interested in public discourse, which is why I pressed X for clarification on his stance.

My only regret with Boid was I was looking forward to his argument about why the NL Central was better than the AL East, but oh well, he's gone, and I'm more than happy with it.  Not only was the guy routinely offensive, but he made posts and threads at a rate where in about a year, he'd have more posts than you and I, and we've been here MUCH longer than he has.  That's the last I will say about him.

My Mom was brought up Greek Orthodox but poo-pooed her up bringing and converted to Catholism when I received my first communion.  Interestingly enough, my grandmother passed away back in mid April, so I went to a Greek Ortodox service for her.  Very interesting.  Most of it is Greek, and the look of the church is very Mediterranean.   If the Catholic church is "The Hunchback of Notre Dame," The Greek Orthodox church is a Hammer Mummy flick.

My Dad total Catholic and believes it all to the letter, no variation.  Whatever works for him, I guess, but it's not for me.  I was a total believer until I was 18.  I took a religions of the world course and came to the realization that what most people believe is based on the culture they were brought up in more than any universial truth.  My Catholic side is all Eastern European and Italian descent, all I'm missing is the Irish.

I believe there could be a higher power, we have no proof either way.  I just believe all of man's perceptions of a higher power are probably skewed.  Another thing, I think the things Jesus says, whether he was real, a prophet, the son of God, or a figment of somebody's imagination, actually make a lot of sense.  The guy spoke of love, I just don't feel many organizations that act in his name promote the same thing.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: shemps#1 on June 09, 2011, 04:50:18 PM
One thing I forgot to touch upon: the anti-homosexual stances of these churches can be traced back to the Old Testament and the reason for it is the same reason the Catholic Church is so anti-contraception. They want more Catholics. If you look throughout the Bible it puts homosexuality in the same category as pulling out before climax and masturbation. I can't remember the exact location of the passage but Onan either jerks off or pulls out of woman and his ejaculate hits the floor and the "all loving" Yahweh decides to kill him for doing so. The tribes back then wanted babies and thought that sex for anything other than procreation (anal, oral, pulling out, jerking off, homosexual) was against the needs of the tribe and the RCC still follows this.

The RCC is always been hypocritical. They even went ahead and changed the Second Commandment because they were making good coin with their "graven images". I don't understand how anyone can follow a church that went ahead and altered the "perfect word of God" and is really in this day and age a monolith of evil. The current Pope, Ratzinger, was a bonified Hitler Youth growing up and under the last administration was instrumental in covering up many a molestation scandal. If I ever had the opportunity I would spit in his face and flip him off. What a disgusting, wretched piece of shit. Let's not forgot that it took hundreds of years for the Holy See to acknowledge its role in the Crusades and apologize for it as well as only recently did they acknowledge their role and apologize for their part in the Holocaust.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: xraffle on June 09, 2011, 05:01:07 PM
I'm also one of those spiritual but not religious Catholics. I think if they let the priest marry, loosened up on all that outrageous shit, they get alot more believers. But those money grubbers in the Vatican wouldn't like that. I believe in god, just not a big lover of organized religion.

I know, right! This priest at my church loves to preach about how there's an extreme shortage of priests because people refuse to follow their calling. He claims that many young men today are called to be priests, but we're too distracted with all the noise in today's society and thus, we ignore God's calling. Whatever!! ::)

The reason why there's a shortage of priests is because we want to live a normal life. Plain and simple!
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: metaldams on June 09, 2011, 05:16:26 PM
all the noise in today's society

I've never heard pussy referred to like that before.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: xraffle on June 09, 2011, 05:36:51 PM
I've never heard pussy referred to like that before.

LOL! He was actually referring to all the material things in the world today, such as iphones, ipads, flat screen TVs, video games, fancy cars, etc.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: shemps#1 on June 09, 2011, 05:38:43 PM
I've never heard pussy referred to like that before.

Pussy: the beautiful noise.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: ThunderStooge on June 09, 2011, 05:40:05 PM
I grew up a spiritual, but not religious Methodist.  My parents sent me to Sunday School each week, but we hardly ever attended service.  My family did not force us.  I am now agnostic.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: metaldams on June 09, 2011, 05:41:08 PM
LOL! He was actually referring to all the material things in the world today, such as iphones, ipads, flat screen TVs, video games, fancy cars, etc.

Yeah, I see what you mean.  Just my vulgar way of saying men like women and perhaps want to marry and have families, and being a priest does not allow that.  All other Christian sects, to my knowledge, allow clergymen to marry.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: metaldams on June 09, 2011, 05:42:07 PM
I grew up a spiritual, but not religious Methodist.  My parents sent me to Sunday School each week, but we hardly ever attended service.  My family did not force us.  I am now agnostic.

I found out recently my grandmother used to teach Sunday school.  This was before I was born.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: ThunderStooge on June 09, 2011, 05:50:01 PM
Pretty much.  If the Vatican would ease up on their priests' marital and sexual restrictions, they might find more people that might be interested.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: metaldams on June 09, 2011, 05:57:01 PM
Pretty much.  If the Vatican would ease up on their priests' marital and sexual restrictions, they might find more people that might be interested.

Not to mention weeding out a lot of the perverts who are currently priests. 
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: Seamus on June 09, 2011, 07:08:40 PM
A very Catholic acquaintance of mine once tried to convince me that Pope Benedict was actually a "reformer," which struck me as so delusional a comment that my jaw hit the floor.  Between officially denouncing the use of condoms in Africa to prevent HIV (including lying about their effectiveness), his active involvement in keeping child rapists in circulation and shielding them from the law, and all the other backward-ass pronouncements he's made, it takes a huge amount of cognitive dissonance to seriously believe Ratzinger is a reformer.  Especially compared to his predecessor, who actually did seem fairly progressive.  At least John Paul officially pardoned Galileo!  A few hundred years late, sure, but at least the church under John Paul showed signs of catching up with reality.  I think John Paul was also the one who officially decreed that evolution is not incompatible with the Catholic faith.  I can't imagine Benedict making the same acknowledgement.

This guy also claimed that the stories of child molestation were wildly overblown by the media.  I think the fact that someone on this very board knows one of the perpetrators is an indicator of how deep that problem runs.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: Curly4444 on June 09, 2011, 07:11:10 PM
Not to mention weeding out a lot of the perverts who are currently priests.  

I think they were made into perverts. Man is a sexual animal, and when you implement all the restraints that the catholic church does, your bound to create a pervert. I'm surprised the catholic church didn't make all priest become Unic's.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: Seamus on June 09, 2011, 07:17:41 PM

I hate to sound like a braggart or a shit or a pig but all I'll say is this: I SHOULD have been high-fived instead of Doug.


Belated but much deserved high five, brah.  You did some good work in here today.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: Liz on June 09, 2011, 07:26:06 PM
It's interesting that while the Catholic church officially denounces all those "evils," most practicing Catholics I know tend to be more liberal when it comes to homosexuality, sex, contraception, etc. 
Seamus, I'm one of the "loose Catholics."  I love God, I love going to church, I love Jesus, and I love my faith (sorry, Jim), but I have absolutely no problem with homosexuals.  In fact (I believe I've mentioned this before in a different thread), I've often questioned why people don't fall in love with their same sex.  That is not to say I'm questioning or bi or lesbian.  In fact, I'm straight. 

I don't know about sex.  I strongly support contraception use, but as far as sex itself, I believe in sex before marriage, but if it happens, it happens. 

And also, Boid is gone.  There is a God. 
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: Curly4444 on June 09, 2011, 07:31:24 PM
And also, Boid is gone.  There is a God.

Yeah there must be.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: metaldams on June 09, 2011, 08:16:36 PM
I went to Catholic high school, and they absolutely teach evolution, so yes, it's true the Catholic church does not take a 100% literal interpretation of the Bible.  From my experiences, it is the Evangelical religions who believe in Adam and Eve and view the Bible as 100% accurate history.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: shemps#1 on June 09, 2011, 09:12:10 PM

And also, Boid is gone.  There is a God. 

No, there is a Jim who threw his ass out of here. You don't have to apologize for being Catholic: it's the Holy See I have a problem with not the followers.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: ThunderStooge on June 09, 2011, 09:20:37 PM
Yes, most Catholics I know are some of the nice and fun people.  It's the hierarchy that pisses me off.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: xraffle on June 09, 2011, 10:33:05 PM
Seamus, I'm one of the "loose Catholics."  I love God, I love going to church, I love Jesus, and I love my faith (sorry, Jim), but I have absolutely no problem with homosexuals.  

I'm a Catholic and go to church too and I like being a believer in God. It gives me hope and makes me a better person. That's all that matters. But that doesn't mean I have to believe everything they say. I'm the kind of Catholic that uses common sense to judge what I feel is right and wrong. If I think that the priest is uttering total nonsense, then I ignore him. If what they say makes a lot of sense, then I follow it.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: shemps#1 on June 10, 2011, 01:06:27 AM
I went to Catholic high school, and they absolutely teach evolution, so yes, it's true the Catholic church does not take a 100% literal interpretation of the Bible.  From my experiences, it is the Evangelical religions who believe in Adam and Eve and view the Bible as 100% accurate history.

They can't take a 100% literal interpretation of the Bible because they changed it so they can make their crosses. The Bible also says nothing about all that saint nonsense either. They do get points for not ignoring the evidence for Evolution but the atrocities the RCC has committed cannot be ignored.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: xraffle on June 10, 2011, 09:03:47 AM
This guy also claimed that the stories of child molestation were wildly overblown by the media.  I think the fact that someone on this very board knows one of the perpetrators is an indicator of how deep that problem runs.

That’s what one of the priests in my church said. He claimed it was just a couple of priests that molested children and the media is exaggerating it. And I actually believed him because my church hasn't experienced this problem yet. But since people here are claiming they’ve encountered a priest that molested children, it just shows how serious the issue really is. And my aunt and uncle encountered one as well in their church. This is very serious and from the way it looks, I now believe that this has not been overblown by the media.


I think they were made into perverts. Man is a sexual animal, and when you implement all the restraints that the catholic church does, your bound to create a pervert. I'm surprised the catholic church didn't make all priest become Unic's.

That answers the question that I was about to ask. I was just about to ask what drives these priests to commit such evil acts. I guess their vow of chastity causes their sex drive to go out of whack!
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: xraffle on June 10, 2011, 09:08:55 AM
You’d be surprised at how each priest can have a totally different opinion on a subject. When I was in high school, one priest said that masturbation is a very sinful act and if you do masturbate, you need to seek help. Then there was this other priests who said it was ok under certain circumstances, LOL!!

The Catholic Church is very political. Who gets appointed pastor at a church? Who gets promoted to a Monsignor? Who gets promoted to become Bishop or Cardinal? Very simple. The priest with the a lot of connections gets promoted. It’s all political, my friends!
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: metaldams on June 10, 2011, 09:21:38 AM
They can't take a 100% literal interpretation of the Bible because they changed it so they can make their crosses. The Bible also says nothing about all that saint nonsense either. They do get points for not ignoring the evidence for Evolution but the atrocities the RCC has committed cannot be ignored.

I agree, which is a major reason why I'm not Catholic.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: Seamus on June 10, 2011, 11:04:11 AM
I was a total believer until I was 18.  I took a religions of the world course and came to the realization that what most people believe is based on the culture they were brought up in more than any universial truth.

This is pretty close to my experience.  When it hit me, around age 20, that people's belief systems have a lot more to do with the accident of their geography with than any serious contemplation on their part, it was my first big step away from Catholicism and toward the for-all-intents-and-purposes atheism I'm at today.  If there is a higher deity (and that's a BIG "if" in my opinion), there's practically zero likelihood that he/she/it conforms to the one sold to us by any of the man-made religions, IMO. 

Not intending to sound patronizing at all, but my hat's off to the believers in this thread who are willing to separate out the decent ideas their religion teaches them from the stupid, harmful, or bullshit rules they try to hold you to (e.g. the "loose Catholics" Liz mentioned).  But I'd also respectfully argue that we don't need a religious underpinning for most if not all of the moral values people claim they get from religion.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: shemps#1 on June 10, 2011, 04:01:28 PM
This is pretty close to my experience.  When it hit me, around age 20, that people's belief systems have a lot more to do with the accident of their geography with than any serious contemplation on their part, it was my first big step away from Catholicism and toward the for-all-intents-and-purposes atheism I'm at today.  If there is a higher deity (and that's a BIG "if" in my opinion), there's practically zero likelihood that he/she/it conforms to the one sold to us by any of the man-made religions, IMO. 

Not intending to sound patronizing at all, but my hat's off to the believers in this thread who are willing to separate out the decent ideas their religion teaches them from the stupid, harmful, or bullshit rules they try to hold you to (e.g. the "loose Catholics" Liz mentioned).  But I'd also respectfully argue that we don't need a religious underpinning for most if not all of the moral values people claim they get from religion.


Now I should be high fiving you! I couldn't agree with you more. In fact there are ongoing scientific studies about "moral values" and how they are key to the survival of the species. You see it in animals as well as humans (which of course blows a big hole in the "only from religion do we get moral values" idea).

I've got to be a dick to my friends here who call themselves "agnostic" however and like you said yourself: for all intents and purposes you guys are atheists. Agnosticism and gnosticism deal with KNOWLEDGE (and with the former the lack there of). Everybody is "agnostic" and to state otherwise is being intellectually dishonest. I cannot prove with 100% certainty that there is no higher power whatsoever, just like I cannot disprove Santa Clause (nor is it up to me to do that because I am not making the positive assertion). Atheism and theism deal with BELIEF in a higher power at it's most broad form (not just limiting ourselves to Judeo-Christianity).

So the question "do you believe in a higher power?" or "do you believe in God" is not answered by "I have no knowledge" or "I don't know". The definition of belief is "confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof" (dictionary.com, 2). Knowledge does not factor in the equation. It's a yes or no question and reading between the lines I see a "no" from Seamus and Doug.

Which begs the question, why do so many people shy away from saying they are atheists? Well "atheist" has always been a dirty word. Only until very recently in history atheists were killed for their lack of belief and still to this day atheists are ostracized although many inroads have been made and it is a lot safer than it once was. "Agnostic" is sort of an out, a way to avoid the possible backlash and public stigma that comes from "atheist".

For further reading I highly suggest "Atheism: The Case Against God" by George H. Smith.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: Curly4444 on June 10, 2011, 04:25:03 PM
Quote
For further reading I highly suggest "Atheism: The Case Against God" by George H. Smith.

With a title like that, you can see why Atheist get all that backlash. I know the atheist wouldn't like a title like "The Case Against those sole-less evil atheist". BTW i think i'll pass on reading that.  ::)

Quote
I cannot prove with 100% certainty that there is no higher power whatsoever, just like I cannot disprove Santa Clause

Nice you just compared God to Santa Clause. Not a way to win points for your fellow Atheists. Should have said something like,  "I cannot prove with 100% certainty that there is no higher power whatsoever, just like I cannot disprove the existence of life on other planets. It was kind of offensive to me to see god compared to a silly children's myth. Maybe you didn't intend it to be offensive, i don't know?
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: metaldams on June 10, 2011, 04:39:28 PM
With a title like that, you can see why Atheist get all that backlash. I know the atheist wouldn't like a title like "The Case Against those sole-less evil atheist". BTW i think ill pas on reading that.  ::)

It's a "case" against God.  You read the Atheist side of the argument and choose yourself whether to agree or disagree.  Why's that offensive?
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: Curly4444 on June 10, 2011, 04:41:35 PM
It's a "case" against God.  You read the Atheist side of the argument and choose yourself whether to agree or disagree.  Why's that offensive?

Cause its worded negatively like its a war against god, or God is a bad thing. "Does god really exist?", or "Is there really a god" would not have been offensive. I wouldn't ever read something from that slanted of a view on the topic, as i wouldn't care to read it from a religious nuts view on it. If it was written by a more neutral point of view, like by an agnostic, i'd consider reading it.


How did we go from talking about gays to god??  ???
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: xraffle on June 10, 2011, 05:41:44 PM
How did we go from talking about gays to god??  ???

It was my fault. I brought up the fact that the Catholic church was prejudice against gay people and then this happened.

I screwed up again. Sigh!
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: Curly4444 on June 10, 2011, 05:43:04 PM
It was my fault. I brought up the fact that the Catholic church was prejudice against gay people and then this happened.

I screwed up again. Sigh!

Ok good to know. Now i know who to blame if i get banned.  ???  :-X :D
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: metaldams on June 10, 2011, 05:44:38 PM
Curly, X, will you guys both chill.  You're not in trouble and none of you are getting banned.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: Curly4444 on June 10, 2011, 05:49:38 PM
Cool.

I have a question, "why is this topic even still open"? Hasn't it run its course?
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: metaldams on June 10, 2011, 06:02:33 PM

I have a question, "why is this topic even still open"? Hasn't it run its course?

Uh, no, last I checked, people are still discussing it.

Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: Curly4444 on June 10, 2011, 06:47:43 PM
Ok, its just gotten off the original topic. But its cool. Discuss on. [glasses1]
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: ThunderStooge on June 10, 2011, 08:36:48 PM
I guess I lean toward theist.  But I'm still an agnostic theist.  I like to think that there may be an afterlife and at least one 'higher power.'  But I do not believe that one religion or faith is any more accurate than another.  If there is is an afterlife and/or higher powers, they could take any form.  How are we to know whether or not 'God' takes the form of a male, female, white, black, asian, etc., or a giant spaghetti monster? There could be a multitude of gods and goddesses, there could also be a group of demi-gods.
I can't prove that any of that exists, but It's a more comforting thought than the more logical, "When you die, that's it.  No reincarnation, no 'heaven' or 'hell', your spirit or soul will not roam the earth because it poof'd away the second you died." That's no fun.
I want to think that as long as you were a good person in life, you will be rewarded your own perception of 'heaven'
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: archiezappa on June 10, 2011, 08:44:44 PM
I do want to say this about this subject.  I love the old shows and I really don't want to know about the private lives of my favorite stars.  While it's interesting, I'd rather judge them based on their acting skills with the characters we love.  Really, we love the characters they portray and not, necessarily, the actual people.  That's why they're actors.  They're playing a part that is not their real personalities.  It's not their real life.  It's a show.  I enjoy many different tv shows and movies that the actors, probably, engage in many, many things that I really don't want to know about.  I just want to enjoy the shows at face value, without all the real life drama.

This is part of the reason that I don't go for reality television.  I really don't want to know.

Some of my favorite movies (i.e. "Pee-wee's Big Adventure") can be ruined if you know what they did in real life.  But the show has nothing to do with what Paul Reubens did in a movie theater.

Also, some of my favorite shows (i.e. "Bewitched") are totally ruined for me, because I can't discuss the show without someone saying "He's gay" or something to that effect.  I'm usually taken aback with those kinds of statements, because it has no bearing on how well the episode is written, directed, or starred. 

Anyway, that's my two cents.  (Attn: Actors!  Do what you do, but don't tell me about it.  And keep up the great acting skills.)
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: xraffle on June 10, 2011, 09:03:44 PM
I do want to say this about this subject.  I love the old shows and I really don't want to know about the private lives of my favorite stars.  While it's interesting, I'd rather judge them based on their acting skills with the characters we love.  Really, we love the characters they portray and not, necessarily, the actual people.  That's why they're actors.  They're playing a part that is not their real personalities.  It's not their real life.  It's a show.  I enjoy many different tv shows and movies that the actors, probably, engage in many, many things that I really don't want to know about.  I just want to enjoy the shows at face value, without all the real life drama.

This is part of the reason that I don't go for reality television.  I really don't want to know.

Some of my favorite movies (i.e. "Pee-wee's Big Adventure") can be ruined if you know what they did in real life.  But the show has nothing to do with what Paul Reubens did in a movie theater.

Also, some of my favorite shows (i.e. "Bewitched") are totally ruined for me, because I can't discuss the show without someone saying "He's gay" or something to that effect.  I'm usually taken aback with those kinds of statements, because it has no bearing on how well the episode is written, directed, or starred. 

Anyway, that's my two cents.  (Attn: Actors!  Do what you do, but don't tell me about it.  And keep up the great acting skills.)

Well said!! I couldn't have said it better myself.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: Curly4444 on June 10, 2011, 09:17:33 PM
Quote
I do want to say this about this subject.  I love the old shows and I really don't want to know about the private lives of my favorite stars.  While it's interesting, I'd rather judge them based on their acting skills with the characters we love.  Really, we love the characters they portray and not, necessarily, the actual people.

I take that same philosophy with Mel Gibson. I dont care whats going on in his life, i love his movies.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: shemps#1 on June 10, 2011, 09:26:16 PM
For me it's not about what makes me comfortable, it's about the truth. I am one of the few rare atheists in this country that was never religious so I had no defining moment where I "realized" atheism was 99.99% the likely answer. When I first told the Biblical accounts I knew something did not jive and I thought the whole Biblical account of the beginnings of the Earth in Genesis was a silly story that was unbelievable. As I got older I learned that much of what was said in Genesis (that the Earth, as well as day and night came before the sun and that the moon shines a light of its own) were proven to be false by scientific advancement since the Bible (both testaments) were written a couple thousands of years ago by desert dwellers.

Quad 4's: I don't see how can find the title of Smith's book offensive. Like Doug said he is presenting the atheist point of view, or the "case against God". The book is not a couple of pages of "fuck you, there is no god" but rather a comprehensive study of atheism from the point of view of an atheist. Before Smith most books on atheism were written by hyper religious people and naturally were very skewed and anti-atheist in tone. If I am going to learn about a people, a belief system or (as in this case) the lack of a belief system I will read books from the insider not from the outsider.

The reason why I recommended the book in the first place is because Doug and Seamus were calling themselves "agnostic" but like most people who call themselves "agnostic" they sounded like they were actually atheists and the book delves deeply into this kind of "agnosticism" in the early chapters. I liken "atheism" to the Scarlett Letter and "agnosticism" to people trying to avoid being tagged with that letter. Everyone is agnostic in a sense, even you and I because we can never prove there a god(s) or that they do not exist just like we can't prove there is no Easter Bunny even though I'm sure we both would agree that there isn't one.

Thunderstooge actually uses the term "agnostic" in the correct manner, as Smith discusses in the book "agnostic atheists" and "agnostic theists".

Lastly, what is taking place is actually a rather civil discussion between theists and atheists as we learn more about the other side. I don't think anyone but you is finding anything offensive about this thread and no one else is calling for the thread to be closed. I like how smoothly and intelligently the thread is flowing through what can be some rather tender subjects. If you, or anyone else for that matter feel offended by the thread you are more than free to ignore it. From a personal standpoint I'd rather you not and everyone contribute freely without being a dick as I think everyone has up to this point and the more point of views we get the broader the discussion gets. In my eyes what was once a rather inane thread started by a rather inane person has become a thought-provoking philosophical message board masterpiece thanks to the other people who have contributed.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: shemps#1 on June 10, 2011, 09:28:53 PM
So actors should just shut up because they are in the public spotlight? They are as free to voice their opinions and whatnot as you and I.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: xraffle on June 10, 2011, 09:37:24 PM
So actors should just shut up because they are in the public spotlight? They are as free to voice their opinions and whatnot as you and I.

I don't think he meant it that way. He's just saying that whatever goes on in their personal lives shouldn't detract from the enjoyment of watching their shows. For example, I'm not going to say, "Ew! Dick Sargent and Paul Lynde are gay! I'm not watching Bewitched anymore!" Sargent and Lynde were both great actors, especially Lynde (he was funny as hell in the show), and whether they're gay or not, it doesn't make them any more or less talented. They are talented actors who we enjoy watching because they are talented individuals, not because they're gay, bi, or straight.

That's my perception of his post.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: Curly4444 on June 10, 2011, 09:41:41 PM
Quote
For me it's not about what makes me comfortable, it's about the truth. I am one of the few rare atheists in this country that was never religious so I had no defining moment where I "realized" atheism was  the likely answer.

Well being raised religious as a kid, my defining moment came early when i realized 99.99% god was the answer.


Quote
Everyone is agnostic in a sense, even you and I because we can never prove there a god(s) or that they do not exist just like we can't prove there is no Easter Bunny

See now i know your trying to stir up shit. You were sounding intelligent up to this point. Why be that way?? I dont go about putting you down for your beliefs. First it was Santa now its the Easter bunny.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: shemps#1 on June 10, 2011, 09:47:40 PM
Ahh, but he did say "don't tell me about it", which denotes that actors should keep their personal opinions or preferences to themselves. I believe that in a perfect world everyone would keep strictly to the performance and put the personal stuff aside, but we don't live in a perfect world. It's getting a bit better though: there's that show How I Met Your Mother with openly gay Neil Patrick Harris playing a character who is a poonhound and most people seem not to blink an eye. I personally do not watch it but there is an example.

An example pertaining to me is in the baseball world: Curt Schilling is a retired pitcher who won two World Series' with the Red Sox (as well as one with the Arizona Diamondbacks). He is also a devout evangelical Christian and I can really care less about his religious or his political views: all I care about is that he was an integral part in the Red Sox' world championships of '04 and '07. I also would not tell him to "shut up and pitch" either.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: shemps#1 on June 10, 2011, 09:49:23 PM
I'm not putting down your beliefs at all: you are being hyper sensitive.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: shemps#1 on June 10, 2011, 09:51:46 PM
Well being raised religious as a kid, my defining moment came early when i realized 99.99% god was the answer.


See now i know your trying to stir up shit. You were sounding intelligent up to this point. Why be that way?? I dont go about putting you down for your beliefs. First it was Santa now its the Easter bunny.

It's not a sniping contest Quad 4's. I should be allowed to posit my point of view, should I not?  I am in no way putting down your beliefs but stating mine (or lack thereof). To me, the Yahweh concept, or any other God concept, has as much merit as Santa or the Easter Bunny due to the lack of tangible, empirical evidence for either. 
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: metaldams on June 10, 2011, 09:54:12 PM
I guess I lean toward theist.  But I'm still an agnostic theist.  I like to think that there may be an afterlife and at least one 'higher power.'  But I do not believe that one religion or faith is any more accurate than another.  If there is is an afterlife and/or higher powers, they could take any form.  How are we to know whether or not 'God' takes the form of a male, female, white, black, asian, etc., or a giant spaghetti monster? There could be a multitude of gods and goddesses, there could also be a group of demi-gods.
I can't prove that any of that exists, but It's a more comforting thought than the more logical, "When you die, that's it.  No reincarnation, no 'heaven' or 'hell', your spirit or soul will not roam the earth because it poof'd away the second you died." That's no fun.
I want to think that as long as you were a good person in life, you will be rewarded your own perception of 'heaven'


I definitely hear you on the comfort thing, and while there's no logic behind it actually happening, by pure faith, it would be nice to think I'll meet my grandfather who passed on before I was born.  It almost seems unfair otherwise, but hey, life ain't always fair.

I'm not as schooled on terms like "theist," "atheist," "agnostic," as much as I thought I was reading this thread, but the book Jim suggested sounds interesting, and that's also from reading some amazon reviews as well.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: Curly4444 on June 10, 2011, 09:54:38 PM
I'm not putting down your beliefs at all: you are being hyper sensitive.

Why then the second comparison of god to a silly children's myth? I wouldn't make comparison of Atheist to something of a similar nature.

Quote
It's not a sniping contest Quad 4's. I should be allowed to posit my point of view, should I not?  I am in no way putting down your beliefs but stating mine (or lack thereof). To me, the Yahweh concept, or any other God concept, has as much merit as Santa or the Easter Bunny due to the lack of tangible, empirical evidence for either.

Yes, you most definitively should be allowed your point of view. Wasn't saying that.

I get it, but why not use a more nicer comparison to something else that you view that doesn't have much merit. Why the silly comparisons to silly children's myths. A good one would be, the cubs will win the world series before there is proven to be a god.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: shemps#1 on June 10, 2011, 09:58:08 PM
Why then the second comparison of god to a silly children's myth? I wouldn't make comparison of Atheist to something of a similar nature. I would want to diss your beliefs.

They aren't beliefs: when I say "I am an atheist" the only thing I am saying is "I don't believe X" not "I believe Y". I don't understand why you are getting all flapped up; would you rather I use Thor or Zeus or Vishnu as analogies?
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: Curly4444 on June 10, 2011, 10:09:20 PM
Yes or the Chicago Cubs one.  ;D


Quote
They aren't beliefs: when I say "I am an atheist" the only thing I am saying is "I don't believe X" not "I believe Y".
Isn't not believing in god a belief to you? I always thought of it that way.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: shemps#1 on June 10, 2011, 10:13:47 PM
ROFL You have redeemed yourself in 6 words (as if you needed redeeming). That was an awesome Cubs burn.  :P
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: Curly4444 on June 10, 2011, 10:16:07 PM
ROFL You have redeemed yourself in 6 words (as if you needed redeeming). That was an awesome Cubs burn.  :P

I knew you'd like it. I'll continue this later, i'm off to watch a movie.

Quote
The cubs will win the world series before there is proven to be a god.

You should add it to your sigy.  ;D :D
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: shemps#1 on June 10, 2011, 10:20:01 PM
Isn't not believing in god a belief to you? I always thought of it that way.

Actually, no. There's "belief" and "non-belief" and they are two opposite things. "Non-belief" cannot be "belief" and vice-versa.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: Seamus on June 11, 2011, 08:45:05 AM
The reason why I recommended the book in the first place is because Doug and Seamus were calling themselves "agnostic" but like most people who call themselves "agnostic" they sounded like they were actually atheists and the book delves deeply into this kind of "agnosticism" in the early chapters. I liken "atheism" to the Scarlett Letter and "agnosticism" to people trying to avoid being tagged with that letter. Everyone is agnostic in a sense, even you and I because we can never prove there a god(s) or that they do not exist just like we can't prove there is no Easter Bunny even though I'm sure we both would agree that there isn't one.

For the record, I never called myself agnostic, and never would.  I'm comfortable with the atheist branding.  I only added the "for-all-intents-and-purposes" qualifier for the same reason Richard Dawkins (one of the most outspoken atheists out there) rates his level of atheism at a 6 out of 7 - you can't really prove God's non-existence, so I'm leaving myself open to new evidence, but in the meantime I'll continue to assume there isn't a big sky daddy looking out for us, helping football players make touchdowns, etc.

I feel that "agnostic" is too wishy-washy, as it seems to give equal weight to both sides of the argument (i.e. you can't prove either side, so it could go either way).  But I don't think reality supports treating both positions equally.  Probabilities matter.  As we've learned more about the world and the bigger universe through science over the past few centuries, the rationale for believing in God keeps getting smaller and smaller, and I think the scales of probability tipped in favor of non-existence a long time ago.

I guess I lean toward theist.  But I'm still an agnostic theist.  I like to think that there may be an afterlife and at least one 'higher power.'  But I do not believe that one religion or faith is any more accurate than another.  If there is is an afterlife and/or higher powers, they could take any form.  How are we to know whether or not 'God' takes the form of a male, female, white, black, asian, etc., or a giant spaghetti monster? There could be a multitude of gods and goddesses, there could also be a group of demi-gods.
I can't prove that any of that exists, but It's a more comforting thought than the more logical, "When you die, that's it.  No reincarnation, no 'heaven' or 'hell', your spirit or soul will not roam the earth because it poof'd away the second you died." That's no fun.
I want to think that as long as you were a good person in life, you will be rewarded your own perception of 'heaven'

This reminds me a lot of an essay I just read by Martin Gardner (in his book The Night is Large, if anyone likes heavy reading).  Gardner's a super-rational pseudoscience debunker, and acknowledges that all evidence points to there being no god, but he still confesses to being a theist for strictly non-logical, emotionally satisfying reasons.  The essay gave me more respect for that position than I had before, even though I disagree with it.

Now I should be high fiving you! I couldn't agree with you more. In fact there are ongoing scientific studies about "moral values" and how they are key to the survival of the species. You see it in animals as well as humans (which of course blows a big hole in the "only from religion do we get moral values" idea).

Have you read Sam Harris's The Moral Landscape yet, Shempski?  I just picked it up but haven't got around to reading it yet.  This topic of a scientific basis for our moral values has been Harris' pet topic lately.  I've watched a few of his lectures on YouTube, and they're pretty engaging.

Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: shemps#1 on June 11, 2011, 12:14:39 PM
You mean God isn't a Patriots fan? Shit!

I'm sorry that I misread you. I haven't read The Moral Landscape yet but I probably should. It makes perfect since if you think about it; if everybody went around killing one another it wouldn't bode well for the advancement of the species.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: Wiseguy70005 on June 11, 2011, 02:12:34 PM
Well being raised religious as a kid, my defining moment came early when i realized 99.99% god was the answer.

god? or God?

See now i know your trying to stir up shit. You were sounding intelligent up to this point. Why be that way?? I dont go about putting you down for your beliefs. First it was Santa now its the Easter bunny.

you are = you're
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: xraffle on June 11, 2011, 02:15:35 PM
you are = you're

Oh, a wise guy, eh?
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: Liz on June 11, 2011, 02:58:02 PM
I'm going to have to take the road Jim took when dealing with actors and their religious beliefs, etc.  Just like Jim looked at Curt Schilling, I'm going to look at my favorite actor, Dwight Frye.  When he wasn't playing lunatics and absolute schizos on-screen, he was a devout Christian Scientist, family man, and all-around good guy.  I like to say he was the typical All-American boy before the Beach Boys showed up.  While his private life just increases the merit for judging him for some people (myself included a little bit), I judge actors mainly by what I see on-screen, and Dwight was terrific on-screen, as many of you know. 
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: shemps#1 on June 11, 2011, 05:53:39 PM
I'm going to have to take the road Jim took when dealing with actors and their religious beliefs, etc.  Just like Jim looked at Curt Schilling, I'm going to look at my favorite actor, Dwight Frye.  When he wasn't playing lunatics and absolute schizos on-screen, he was a devout Christian Scientist, family man, and all-around good guy.  I like to say he was the typical All-American boy before the Beach Boys showed up.  While his private life just increases the merit for judging him for some people (myself included a little bit), I judge actors mainly by what I see on-screen, and Dwight was terrific on-screen, as many of you know.  

I gotta say Liz, Dwight Frye is the oddest crush a young lady in 2011 can have. Also I should say that there are even limits to the whole "private life doesn't matter" thing. I'll use Doug as an example: he was a fan of Chris Benoit but once he murdered with wife and son Doug stopped being a fan. If Schilling were to do something so heinous I would not be a fan of his anymore (although I highly doubt Curt could ever be capable of such a thing).
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: Curly4444 on June 11, 2011, 06:51:38 PM
Quote
I gotta say Liz, Dwight Frye is the oddest crush a young lady in 2011 can have. Also I should say that there are even limits to the whole "private life doesn't matter" thing. I'll use Doug as an example: he was a fan of Chris Benoit but once he murdered with wife and son Doug stopped being a fan. If Schilling were to do something so heinous I would not be a fan of his anymore (although I highly doubt Curt could ever be capable of such a thing).

Thats true, I would stop being a fan. I dont know though if i would never watch their movies again. Like if Mel Gibson had killed his wife, it wouldn't stop me from watching Braveheart.
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: Seamus on June 11, 2011, 08:16:34 PM
I gotta say Liz, Dwight Frye is the oddest crush a young lady in 2011 can have.

Or a young lady in 1931 for that matter.


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Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: Liz on June 11, 2011, 10:04:13 PM
I gotta say Liz, Dwight Frye is the oddest crush a young lady in 2011 can have. Also I should say that there are even limits to the whole "private life doesn't matter" thing. I'll use Doug as an example: he was a fan of Chris Benoit but once he murdered with wife and son Doug stopped being a fan. If Schilling were to do something so heinous I would not be a fan of his anymore (although I highly doubt Curt could ever be capable of such a thing).
Oh, trust me, there are others like me out there. ;)

Also, I agree with you.  If I found out that Dwight would do such a terrible thing, I would hate him with a passion (though I know he'd never do that.  His craziness was limited to the screen).
Title: Re: Classic Sitcoms and Gays
Post by: metaldams on June 12, 2011, 01:16:45 AM
Or a young lady in 1931 for that matter.


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Geez man, you beat me to it!

Yeah, it has to be something incredibly heinous for me to stop being a fan of a celebrities work, and Chris Benoit is the only example I can think of.  The thing with Benoit is he performed that swandive head butt so many times through the years, and that was one of the reasons why I was a fan.  Turns out the man had severe brain damage, and that move was a major reason why.