Topic: Time Flies When You're Having Fun

[Dunrobin]

50 years ago today (30 Nov 1972), I joined the U.S. Army at the age of 17.  Not the smartest move I ever made, but not the worst one either.  lol

I don't have a photo of myself as a raw recruit, but here's one from a year later, when I was home on leave for Christmas.  I had just gotten back from spending about three weeks in Frankfurt, Germany, getting drunk while on the government tab.

[metaldams]

You look like a kid - yet you’re in uniform.  Great photo, Rob.  Must have been a Hell of an experience.

My understanding is 42 is the oldest to join and since I’ll be 44 in a few weeks….my time has passed.

[metaldams]

Guess this would be a good a place as any to share this.  Here is a photo my family has of Cesar Romero in WWII.  The little Joe Pesci looking guy next to him is my great uncle.

[Dunrobin]

You look like a kid - yet you’re in uniform.  Great photo, Rob.  Must have been a Hell of an experience.

My understanding is 42 is the oldest to join and since I’ll be 44 in a few weeks….my time has passed.

I was a kid (I was 18 in the picture) -  a completely naive nerd.  In high school, I literally wore a pocket protector and used a slide rule, and I carried my books in an old leather briefcase that looked a lot like this:



I mean, look at this picture of me with my brothers, taken at my grandfather's home in upstate NY in 1975 about a month after I got kicked out of the Army for being gay:



Let's face it, that tall kid was a total geek!   

[Dunrobin]

Guess this would be a good a place as any to share this.  Here is a photo my family has of Cesar Romero in WWII.  The little Joe Pesci looking guy next to him is my great uncle.

That's cool - I didn't know that Romero had been in the Navy.  And you're right - your great uncle did look a bit like Pesci!  lol

[metaldams]

I did a double take when I read you got kicked out for being gay - then I remembered gays in the military was a hot topic issue in the 90’s, so I guess I shouldn’t be surprised.  Pretty crazy.

….and there’s nothing wrong with geekdom.  I pride myself at it.

[metaldams]

….and to add some irony to this, being gay and in the military, pretty sure Cesar Romero was gay.

[Freddie Sanborn]

If anyone here listened to the late Gilbert Gottfried’s podcast, hardly an episode went by without him referencing Romero’s sexual proclivities involving orange wedges.

….and to add some irony to this, being gay and in the military, pretty sure Cesar Romero was gay.

[metaldams]

If anyone here listened to the late Gilbert Gottfried’s podcast, hardly an episode went by without him referencing Romero’s sexual proclivities involving orange wedges.

I usually have a pretty vivid imagination - and with orange wedges - even I’m stumped.  Heard one Gilbert podcast and he did the most amazing Maria Ouspenskaya impersonation.

[Dunrobin]

Must have been a Hell of an experience.

Well, it was certainly interesting, and I have to admit that I actually had a lot of fun while I was in the Army, in spite of everything.

First of all, I was originally supposed to join with my best friend in high school on a buddy program that the Army had at the time.  My buddy backed out at the last minute, right after I signed the papers and took the oath.  So he skated and I was stuck.

Second problem was, I joined largely to get out from under my father's authority (and I was thoroughly bored in high school.)  Joining the Army to escape parental authority was a remarkably dumb idea, as I quickly realized during Basic Training, when I suddenly had half a dozen authority figures yelling in my face.

So I decided to encourage them to kick me out by going AWOL.  Repeatedly.  I would take off and go somewhere for a while, until my money ran out or I got picked up for something, then they'd take me back to the base (Fort Knox, KY), and then I'd take off again a few days later.  I did it often enough that the MPs joked that they could blind fold me and drop me anywhere on Fort Knox, and I'd find my way off the base in half an hour.  lol  I even deserted from the Stockade once, by doing something they didn't expect - I walked out the front door, right past the guards, carrying a clipboard and just looking like I knew what I was doing.

Unfortunately, my father foiled my scheme.  The Army was actually considering discharging me, but my father found out about what I'd been doing.  He was a high enough ranking government agent to get an appointment with the commanding general at Fort Knox, and Dad convinced him to not let me go so easily.  Instead, he convinced the general to have my training records from Basic mysteriously vanish, so after I was released from the Stockade instead of getting discharged liked I'd hoped I got to go through Basic training a second time!  (Thanks, Dad!)

But I had a blast doing it the second time!  I was in good physical shape compared to the first time, and I already knew what we were going to be doing, so the pressure was off.  It quickly became obvious to the drill sergeants that I knew the course and they ended up getting me to help the guys who were struggling to learn things like Drill and Ceremony.   I ended up settling down and behaving myself (except for one last, very brief AWOL for my 18th birthday - I took off for a weekend, but I turned myself into the company commander on Monday morning.  I think he gave me a $50 fine, about a quarter of my monthly pay.)

When I first looked into joining the Army, I wanted to go into field artillery, but my eyesight wasn't good enough, and based on my aptitude tests when I joined I ended up going into clerical training.  Wanting to avoid Vietnam, when I signed up I put in for a posting in Germany (enlisting gave you options that you didn't get if you were drafted.)  After I completed my AIT (Advanced Individual Training)  at Fort Dix, NJ, the Army actually honored my enlistment contract and sent me to Germany in October 1973, but when I got to the processing center in Frankfurt I ran into a snag.  Thanks to my AWOLs, no one really wanted me.  No doubt they figured an 18 year old loose in Germany with my record of disappearing was just going to vanish on them.  So I was stuck in limbo for about three weeks, and being a reasonably intelligent kid, I would vanish just before they handed out job assignments for the day, and I spent my days wandering the streets of Frankfurt and getting drunk off my ass in German bars.



They finally sent me back to Fort Dix, where I spent the remainder of my time in the Army, first as a property book clerk in Brigade Logistics (S-4), and then I became the company clerk for the Brigade's headquarters company.  (Think Radar O'Reilly, without the war setting.)  I was a SPC4 by then (equivalent to a corporal), and was actually considering reenlisting to get my SPC5 (sergeant) stripe.

I had a lot of good times at Fort Dix, but unfortunately some of them came back to bite me in the ass.  A jealous former lover (who, ironically, was married to a really sweet Japanese gal)  framed me for an court-martial level offense that could have gotten me several years of hard labor in Fort Leavenworth (Army prison), and when I tried to fight the charge I found out that the CID (Criminal Investigation Division) had also become well acquainted with my sex life in the Army, and they'd be happy to consider additional charges if I wanted to put up a fight.  So when my Brigade commander offered me a General discharge in lieu of court-martial, I jumped for it, but the Commanding General at Fort Dix changed it to an Undesirable Discharge.  When I appealed to him for a reconsideration, he literally said to my face that he wasn't going to give a General Discharge to a faggot.  I could either take the Undesirable or the court-martial.  I took the discharge.

So yeah, all in all, it was a hell of an experience.  lol

[Dunrobin]

I did a double take when I read you got kicked out for being gay - then I remembered gays in the military was a hot topic issue in the 90’s, so I guess I shouldn’t be surprised.  Pretty crazy.

….and there’s nothing wrong with geekdom.  I pride myself at it.

Yeah, back in the 70s being Gay was NOT acceptable in the Army.  I remember reading, about a year before my own brief career fell apart, about a Master Sergeant on Fort Dix who was only a year or two away from retirement when he got caught having sex with another soldier; like me he was busted down to buck private and thrown out with an Undesirable discharge.  (Which is why I believed the general when he told me he wouldn't give a General discharge to a "faggot" like me.)

[metaldams]

Great story, Rob.  So, multiple AWOLs and a father with some influence - no problem.  Being gay - see ya.  Sounded like a restless young man, something I wish I had a little of at that age.

[Dunrobin]

Great story, Rob.  So, multiple AWOLs and a father with some influence - no problem.  Being gay - see ya.  Sounded like a restless young man, something I wish I had a little of at that age.

Oh, I was a very restless young man, for a number of years.  After I got out of the Army, I stayed with my maternal grandfather in upstate NY (Dad wasn't very happy about my discharge but Grandpa was more forgiving), and I ended up making Buffalo my home base for a dozen years, but I was always restless.  I moved every year, and I often would just pack some things in a backpack, stick my thumb out and hitchhike across America.  I alternated between the Rocky Mountains and Buffalo.  I worked one season as a roustabout in the old fields of Wyoming.  I lived in the Denver area a few times, lived in Santa Fe, NM for a few months, and in Tucson, AZ for three years (my longest time in one area, until I settled down in Michigan.)

[Dunrobin]

So when my Brigade commander offered me a General discharge in lieu of court-martial, I jumped for it, but the Commanding General at Fort Dix changed it to an Undesirable Discharge.  When I appealed to him for a reconsideration, he literally said to my face that he wasn't going to give a General Discharge to a faggot.  I could either take the Undesirable or the court-martial.  I took the discharge.

I should add that my Brigade commander was a really nice guy (for a colonel), and he did put me in for a General discharge (which would have meant that I got to keep my veteran benefits.)   A large part of the reason for that was the fact that I had been named my Brigade's "Outstanding Soldier of the Year" just a few months before the shit hit the fan.  It was the General who was the bigoted dickhead.

For the first year or so after I got out, I kept my Undesirable Discharge in a frame, hung right about my certificate for "Outstanding Soldier".  I just loved the irony. 

[Freddie Sanborn]

At the risk of being reported to the moderator for indecency, here’s Gilbert’s story:  https://youtu.be/X9ErHr1eKgk

I usually have a pretty vivid imagination - and with orange wedges - even I’m stumped.  Heard one Gilbert podcast and he did the most amazing Maria Ouspenskaya impersonation.

[metaldams]

At the risk of being reported to the moderator for indecency, here’s Gilbert’s story:  https://youtu.be/X9ErHr1eKgk

Anything short of actual pornographic pictures or videos is fine.  An R rated story like this is OK, especially when being delivered by Gilbert Gottfried.  That was funny.

[hiramhorwitz]

Speaking of the passage of half a century reminds me that 2023 marks the 50 year point since my three primary Moe Howard encounters:  1) seeing him live on stage April 29, 1973 at the Walt Whitman Theatre in Pennsauken, NJ; 2) attending the August 14, 1973 taping of Philly's Mike Douglas Show featuring Moe with co-host Soupy Sales (and getting the opportunity to hang out with Moe, Helen Howard, and Morris Feinberg after the show); and 3) seeing him live on stage November 15, 1973 at the Harwan Theatre in Mt. Ephraim, NJ, and then being photographed with him outside the theatre following the show.  Hard to believe that the 50 year anniversary of these events will occur in 2023.  Definitely makes me feel old, although it truly seems like my Moe encounters just happened yesterday! 

[Paul Pain]

Rob, are you sure you're not just making your own version of the Klinger story?

[Dunrobin]

Rob, are you sure you're not just making your own version of the Klinger story?

LMAO!   

Ironically, M*A*S*H debuted just a few months before I enlisted, but I didn't watch the show until after I got out.  I totally got Klinger, though.