Topic: Men O' War (1929) - Laurel and Hardy

[metaldams]

http://www.lordheath.com/index.php?p=1_172_Men-O-War
http://www.laurelandhardycentral.com/me war.html
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0020161/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x24v5zi_men-o-war-b-w-1929-laurel-hardy_shortfilms

Watch MEN O' WAR in the link above

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MAnLAnK_Lno

Watch Abbott and Costello do a similar cafe sketch in the link above



      First off, the guys from the laurelandhardycentral.com site linked above do a wonderful job with their write up on this one, so some of what I say will be echoed there.  Still, I will try my best to add a Metaldams flavor, for better or worse.

      OK, third talkie in, and easily the best one so far.  The undergarment gag and soda fountain gag are truly talking gags, and they are done well.  They are not gratuitous talking gags like in previous shorts where they are obviously trying to show off for the sake of sound.  Here, there is situational dialogue going on that displays actual character, and we will be seeing much more of this in the future.

      The short starts out with the undergarment gag, and in 2015, it's one of those scenarios where I'm glad older films exist as they are a window to a different time.  I like the creative little set up of the undergarment falling out of the women's laundry basket, onto the ground, and one of the girls, unbeknownst to her, steps over it, making Stan and Ollie think she, er um.....lost them.  Turns out in reality she did lose something, a pair of gloves, which leads to a hysterical exchange of the boys trying to get the girl to describe what she lost.  The cop showing up with the real gloves saves the boys some embarrassment, but this is a pleasant gag that you can file under pre-code, and the only type of fascinating bit you'd see 1929 - 1934.  Too risqué for the code era, not risqué enough after.  I love this stuff.  By the way, that undergarment?  No way a girl today wears that.  That's something Little Bo Beep would wear.  Those girls today would be wearing a little thong which fails to conceal whatever tattoo it is they got just above.  Like I said, a fascinating window into another world.  Oh, have to mention the bicyclist saying, "Naughty, naughty" and then falling into the pond.  Funny stuff!

      The soda fountain scene, classic stuff!  Done much better here with sound than in the silent SHOULD MARRIED MEN GO HOME?  This scene needs actual voices and vocal inflections, not title cards, to work.  Stan Laurel, for the first time, seems comfortable in a dialogue situation and I was laughing loudly at his innocent, sheepish way of ordering a soda when he wasn't supposed to.  The talks and slapstick scenarios with Ollie in this scene are top notch.  By the way, Abbott and Costello did this same routine a few times much later on (one example linked above), notice the difference.  With Stan and Ollie, the slapstick is relatively gentle and they oversell, which makes a funny comic effect.  With Bud and Lou, there is no overselling, Bud, for lack of better term to do it justice, slaps the shit out of Lou.  Lou takes it like a trooper, and for the record, I appreciate both interpretations.  Still, Laurel and Hardy, for a slapstick comedy team, have a much gentler, friendlier approach than The Three Stooges and Abbott and Costello which definitely makes for a unique dynamic.  Also worth mentioning are the wonderful reactions of Jim Finlayson in this scene, no doubt giving birth to Homer Simpson with his gentle "Doh!"

      The row boat scene, first off, when they go around in circles trying to row the thing, that's exactly what happens when I row a boat.  Like in BERTH MARKS, pure physical comedy scenes aren't yet mastered with the limitations of camera early on in sound, but there is an improvement.  A vast one, actually.  When it's just Stan, Ollie, and the always wonderful Charlie Hall, things are great.  Love the way Ollie sells the pillow shot, again, a great example of him overselling a little hit, which I find hysterical.  However, once too many people get involved in the fracas, the camera becomes overcrowded and not much happens.  Unlike BERTH MARKS, this does not last for five minutes, thankfully.

      A big improvement, and the next few get even better! 9/10

[Big Chief Apumtagribonitz]

One of my faves.  This one is so good, it actually overcomes the early-talkie technical limitations.  Dan Castellanetta has always credited Homer's 'D'oh!" to Finlayson.  A&C did a version of the soda bit, yes, and they also did their version of last week's stooges eating the dog and cat bit.  And of course, Niagara Falls.  These bits were of course common property ( L&H weren't the first with the soda bit, either) but of the three teams, my least favorite is always A&C.  They seem mean and nasty, especially Abbott, when they're doing the old bits.  Plus, for some reason, A&C change the town to someplace else that has neither the comic resonance or screamability of Niagara Falls, I forget what it is, but it's ,like, Dayton, Ohio, or Bowling Green, or someplace way too bland sounding.
     The bicyclist going off the bridge is so funny and technically perfect it ranks right up there with [ SPOILER ALERT ] the desk clerk in Blockheads  taking the football to the face: a huge laugh that just comes out of nowhere.

[Seamus]

I love the breezy, sunny vibe of this one.  Pleasant location filming at the park, L&H and their dates laughing and having a good time, breezing through three funny set pieces.  Definitely a big step up from their first two talkies.

The bloomer scene followed immediately by the soda scene is a really funny stretch of film.  I watched this with Mrs. Seamus the first time I saw it, and when they started exchanging flirtatious looks with the girls they had us in the palms of their hands.  I like that Stan, true to character, is the last one to figure out what's going on, wearing a completely blank and oblivious expression while Ollie is already making time with the ladies.  There's also something delightful about seeing L&H giggle like school boys over a pair of girly undergarments (not that there's much about those bloomers I'd call girly).  "I'll.  Bet.  You.  Miss.  Them."

During the soda scene, when Finlayson asks what flavor they want, why is Ollie so coy about saying "sassafras?"  Is that an outdated joke that went over my head?

Ollie has to do some more BERTH MARKS style vocal improve for the final boat scene, which means we get more "DON'T you hit me!" in response to being wussy-slapped by Stan (I lost count of the number of times he said this during the berth scene in the previous short).  I was about to suggest that the quality of the short dips a bit during this final act, but screw it, I enjoy it almost as much as "undies" and "soda, soda, soda" for one reason alone - the undeniable brilliance of James Finlayson.  The man has one of the most limited comedic vocabularies in the history of slapstick - the squinty-eyed reaction shot and "D'oh!" - but swear to god if someone made a two-reeler that just alternated between some mundane footage and James Finlayson reacting to it for 20 minutes I'd never stop laughing.

[Paul Pain]

Haven't gotten around to watching it yet.  You'll see my review replace this comment when I do.

EDIT: Now that my chuckling has simmered, here is my review.

The essential base of this is similar to SHOULD MARRIED MEN GO HOME? with a different opening scene.  The conversation Stan and Ollie have with the girls over the lingerie gloves is hilarious and clearly off-color in tone.  The soda scene was done better, and Jim Finlayson's reactions to Stan and Ollie's tactics are hilarious; his faces are the best going.  There was satisfaction in watching Finlayson, figuring Stan can't pay, break down as Stan risks his money and wins on the slot machine, getting enough money to pay for the soda (and drink the bottom half), buy gifts for the girls, and rent a boat.

The boat fight is precious, especially watching the boats tip over.  Definitely the best talkie to date.  I chuckled all the way through.

-1 point for the high pitch screaming that was 20 volumes ticks louder than the rest.

9/10

D'oh!

[metaldams]

I love the breezy, sunny vibe of this one.  Pleasant location filming at the park, L&H and their dates laughing and having a good time, breezing through three funny set pieces.  Definitely a big step up from their first two talkies.

The bloomer scene followed immediately by the soda scene is a really funny stretch of film.  I watched this with Mrs. Seamus the first time I saw it, and when they started exchanging flirtatious looks with the girls they had us in the palms of their hands.  I like that Stan, true to character, is the last one to figure out what's going on, wearing a completely blank and oblivious expression while Ollie is already making time with the ladies.  There's also something delightful about seeing L&H giggle like school boys over a pair of girly undergarments (not that there's much about those bloomers I'd call girly).  "I'll.  Bet.  You.  Miss.  Them."

During the soda scene, when Finlayson asks what flavor they want, why is Ollie so coy about saying "sassafras?"  Is that an outdated joke that went over my head?

Ollie has to do some more BERTH MARKS style vocal improve for the final boat scene, which means we get more "DON'T you hit me!" in response to being wussy-slapped by Stan (I lost count of the number of times he said this during the berth scene in the previous short).  I was about to suggest that the quality of the short dips a bit during this final act, but screw it, I enjoy it almost as much as "undies" and "soda, soda, soda" for one reason alone - the undeniable brilliance of James Finlayson.  The man has one of the most limited comedic vocabularies in the history of slapstick - the squinty-eyed reaction shot and "D'oh!" - but swear to god if someone made a two-reeler that just alternated between some mundane footage and James Finlayson reacting to it for 20 minutes I'd never stop laughing.

There are plenty of silent shorts with James Finlayson where they tried to make him a star, or at least co-star.  They are just OK, in my opinion, but I think he found his true calling playing support to Laurel and Hardy, doing the exact type of reactions you mentioned.

[Big Chief Apumtagribonitz]

I read somewhere that that park still exists, and still looks very much the same.

[Seamus]

I read somewhere that that park still exists, and still looks very much the same.

Sounds like a Kingdom of Moronika meet-up at the Men 'O War park is called for.

[metaldams]

Sounds like a Kingdom of Moronika meet-up at the Men 'O War park is called for.

...that setting screams for a modern Laurel and Hardy style gag involving....booty shorts.  When Stan and Ollie get told by the modern girls they'd never wear those because they go strictly commando, you can then cue the classic close-ups of Stan and Ollie's fourth wall breaking puzzled faces.  I have beer and Black Sabbath in my brain as I type this, so there's my excuse if this is not funny tomorrow morning.

Paul, looking forward to your review.

[Paul Pain]

...that setting screams for a modern Laurel and Hardy style gag involving....booty shorts.  When Stan and Ollie get told by the modern girls they'd never wear those because they go strictly commando, you can then cue the classic close-ups of Stan and Ollie's fourth wall breaking puzzled faces.  I have beer and Black Sabbath in my brain as I type this, so there's my excuse if this is not funny tomorrow morning.

I have never heard a girl admit to commando, and I spent 4 years in a school with 1500 girls at or near my age.  Of course, that is the kind of thing girls don't admit.

That's not to say there aren't... babes... on my campus.

[Big Chief Apumtagribonitz]

The name of the park is Hallandale and there's a modern-day video of it on YouTube if you go to Men O'War there.

[metaldams]

I have never heard a girl admit to commando, and I spent 4 years in a school with 1500 girls at or near my age.  Of course, that is the kind of thing girls don't admit.

That's not to say there aren't... babes... on my campus.

You're right they don't admit it, which is why it would be hysterical if it happened in a Laurel and Hardy routine....I think, anyway.  I live very close to University of Delaware, and in Main Street in my town, the girls are what I refer to as traffic hazards.  A high school friend of mine literally wrecked his car because his head was facing the sidewalk instead of forward.

[metaldams]

The name of the park is Hallandale and there's a modern-day video of it on YouTube if you go to Men O'War there.

I'll have to check it out tonight concerning MEN O' WAR, but that lordheath.com site I always link to has a wonderful section about locations in Hal Roach films, tons of pics.  One of the guys who runs it used to post here as Bruckman.

[metaldams]

Here's a link to the video Big Chief was talking about.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=da34Yx3MGdo

Also, a tragic story about this short, the blonde female lead in this short, Gloria Greer, apparently died in 1931 at age 23 from childbirth complications.  Not the only Laurel and Hardy actress to die before age 25 either.

[Big Chief Apumtagribonitz]

Hollenbeck, not Hallandale, sorry.  I miss the bridges.  In fact, I kind of miss all the buildings, they look like more fun.

[Paul Pain]

My review is up just in time for this short to get put aside!

[metaldams]

My review is up just in time for this short to get put aside!

You're not kidding, PERFECT DAY review coming right up.

Obviously, put aside is not totally accurate.  I do like it when people post reviews later on, it just doesn't happen enough.

[Umbrella Sam]

I guess I’m not quite as big a fan of this one as everyone else. Don’t get me wrong, I like this short, though I don’t consider it to be particularly great. There are a couple great sequences in both the soda sequence and the ending fight, but that’s about it. There are some funny things throughout the rest of the short as well, such as the bicyclist going off the bridge, though I didn’t find the glove bit or Stan and Ollie’s failed attempts to row to be anything spectacular. They’re not bad, but neither bit really gave me anything more than a couple chuckles. Still, the short is funny enough and it does get a lot of points for those two great sequences.

8 out of 10

[Dr. Mabuse]

"Men O' War" remains a standout among Laurel and Hardy's early talkies. After the awkward "Berth Marks," the boys find the ideal blend of dialogue and slapstick in this memorable two-reeler — filmed mostly on location at Hollenbeck Park in Los Angeles. The soda-fountain sequence is worth the price of admission.

9/10

[HomokHarcos]

Once again, I'd like to give a thumbs up for the location shooting. I love looking at these older films and seeing the sites back then. I had seen the diner sketch in Abbott and Costello first, where they are not able to pay for the two of them. I like Stan and Ollie's take better, as Ollie doesn't try to talk Stan into ordering something only for him to slap him around when he orders something. Strangely, this scene has a happy ending as Stan wins a lottery game. The ending reminds me of the silent Laurel and Hardy films where the end breaks out in chaos and everybody gets involved. These early talkies haven't reached the heights of the silent films, yet.

[ChrisBungoStudios]

Hollenbeck Park - same spot. 1929 vs Today. More like this at my website: https://ChrisBungoStudios.com

Click to view larger version.

[GreenCanaries]

Hollenbeck Park - same spot. 1929 vs Today. More like this at my website: https://ChrisBungoStudios.com

Click to view larger version.

Hope that bicyclist doesn't get distracted!

[ChrisBungoStudios]

Hope that bicyclist doesn't get distracted!

I think he just might! LOL

[NoahYoung]

  And of course, Niagara Falls.  These bits were of course common property ( L&H weren't the first with the soda bit, either) but of the three teams, my least favorite is always A&C.  They seem mean and nasty, especially Abbott, when they're doing the old bits.  Plus, for some reason, A&C change the town to someplace else that has neither the comic resonance or screamability of Niagara Falls, I forget what it is, but it's ,like, Dayton, Ohio, or Bowling Green, or someplace way too bland sounding.

In LOST IN A HAREM, A&C use "the banks of the Pokomoko" as the place, but use "Niagara Falls" in the JAIL episode of their TV show.

[NoahYoung]

Regarding the short being reviewed, it has never been one of my favorites. I don't like anything that comes after the soda fountain scene. If I were recommending L&H films to someone who had never seen them, and didn't want to watch them all, this is not a short I'd recommend.

For me, the first half is interesting since you can see (and hear) how they were adapting to talkies. The soda fountain scene, to me, is nowhere near as funny as A&C's rendition, where it became a turkey sandwich and a cup of coffee. Plus they added twin waitresses in both filmed renditions -- KEEP'EM FLYING, and the HUNGRY episode of their TV show.

[NoahYoung]

I had seen the diner sketch in Abbott and Costello first, where they are not able to pay for the two of them. I like Stan and Ollie's take better, as Ollie doesn't try to talk Stan into ordering something only for him to slap him around when he orders something.

I'm a big A&C fan and a big L&H fan, but L&H rank higher in my "favorites" list of comedians. I still like A&C's version of the routine better.

A&C and L&H had totally different styles -- and that routine suits A&C much better. When Abbott coaxes Costello for the thousandth time, sometimes I'm actually convinced that he really does want Costello to order something! So even though I've seen the routine a thousand times, I let out a huge howl when Costello orders and Abbott freaks out again!

I generally don't like to compare my favorite comedians to each other, but in this case, a comparison is necessary because it is essentially the same routine.

When I was a kid, I had a cousin who told me that A&C were funnier than L&H, because with L&H, in his words, "You can predict what they're gonna do." He would demonstrate this to me as we watched a L&H movie. (I presume one he hadn't seen before.)  "Now he's gonna slip on the banana peel," he would tell me, seconds before Ollie, or whoever, slipped on a banana peel.

It never bothered me that you could predict what they were going to do, but years later I discovered that that was part of their formula! They didn't think they were surprising us by doing "unpredictable" things. Did they really think we wouldn't expect Ollie to fall off the roof when he and Stan were installing an antenna! Nope, they mastered the art of the "anticipated laugh", to coin a phrase. We know he will fall, his wife knows he will fall, and even Stan probably knows he will fall. The only one who doesn't know it is Ollie himself! That's the joke!

When we watch the Stooges, we're just waiting for the eye-poke, the head bashing, etc. It doesn't diminish the humour because we knew it was coming. Now sometimes they would surprise us with shorts like THEY STOOGE TO CONGA which one-ups every other short they made when it comes to violence!

Strangely, this scene has a happy ending as Stan wins a lottery game.

A one-armed bandit, not a lottery. 

These early talkies haven't reached the heights of the silent films, yet.

There are some who feel that none of their talkies reached the heights of their silent classics. I'm not one of those people, though. In fact, I feel they hit higher heights in the talkies. In the silents, their characters weren't yet fully developed. (Much like the native girls Captain Spaulding took pictures of during his safari.)