Topic: Malice In the Palace (1949)

[metaldams]

http://www.threestooges.net/filmography/episode/117
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0041623/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ODkuH93AkNw

Watch MALICE IN THE PALACE in the link above



One of these weeks where I work to 8:00 at night and have to get up at the crack of dawn on Saturday to start a busy day.  My review will be edited in this spot either late Saturday night or the early A.M. hours on Sunday.  Starting in August, I have a new and improved work schedule, so let's just say day shift for Metaldams again and Friday will be my short day....I get out at noon!  Expect to routinely see earlier reviews starting in a few weeks.

But alas, not this weekend.  Obviously, feel free to post your thoughts and reviews before mine.  I'll have my cell phone on me tomorrow, so big Metaldams brother will be watching.

Edit:  It's 11:33 PM, Saturday, and it's time for my review.  Hung out with a friend today, had a good time, but it's now time to return to Stooge reviewing.  Cool to see all these responses already, and I'm really happy I posted the infamous Curly shot. Número 117, my friends.  Let's rock 'n' roll, maternal fornicaters.

     Ah yes, MALICE IN THE PALACE!  I absolutely love this short.  Back in the days when people paid for entertainment and had to buy cassette tapes and discs, this was one of the most available Stooge shorts due to its public domain status.  It's a good thing it's a worthy short.

      I'll tell you one thing that's great about this.  The first eleven minutes or so?  It's one continuous, beautifully written, uninterrupted scene of funny bit followed by another funny bit.  Everything flows together beautifully.  The music at the beginning is a nice touch as the wonderfully named Hassan Ben Sober and Ghinna Rumma characters are introduced, and the boys themselves get a great introduction in a well choreographed scene narrowly escaping collision holding trays of food as waiters, only for Shemp to end things in a satisfying conclusion.  When it's almost impossible not to hit each other, they escape, when it's silmple to avoid collision, that's when Shemp screws up!  Good stuff.  As Shemp_Diesel previously mentions, the scene where Shemp's wandering hand leads Moe's lemming like head into the ground for several bumps is a classic bit of Stoogedom.  Moe and Shemp smacking dishes over each other's head is painfully fun.

      Then there is Larry with the cat and dog, one of my favorite Stooge scenes ever.  The reactions by Moe, Shemp, Vernon, and George Lewis are priceless as they get the wrongful impression Larry is partaking in domestic animal slaughter before the feast.  Vernon wanting to throw up in George Lewis's hat always makes me laugh, but my favorite part is subtle.  Once the hot dog is touched and an animal noise is made, the camera pans to both Moe and Vernon for reaction shots, and both of their faces are priceless!  Vernon looks a bit cross eyed, and Moe...don't know how to describe it, but damn, it looks funny.  Other funny stuff?  Shemp giving the spaghetti haircut, Moe's happy birthday wish after he takes the cupcake out of the beard, and the two would be cut throats outing themselves as doormen at the Oasis Hotel!  Vernon's cries are wonderful, and Moe giving a desperate Ghianna Rumma two instead of five is another highlight.

      Once they get to the palace, the fun does not stop.  Highlights for me are the guard playing leap frog with the boys, Paul Pain's already mentioned Johnny Kascier as the lunatic Emir of Shmow, and Shemp as the top third of the evil spirit.  The ending is great too.  The boys, in a rare feat of 100% victory mode, still find themselves outsmarted by an inanimate object who sprays water in their faces!  I have no complaints about this short.  None.  Zilch.  Nada.

10/10

     

[Shemp_Diesel]

Well, the great stretch of Shemp shorts continues--this short has probably the greatest collection of character names for one episode; Hassan Bin Sober, Gin Rumma and Afa Dollah. Love the opening bit when the stooges first come on camera and Shemp remarks "What a narrow escape. If I didn't duck we would've collided for sure." So, of course, after Shemp says that, you know what's coming next.

"There you are sir, you look very pretty and the spaghetti is as good as new." Also during the first few minutes of this short, Shemp does what may be the funniest thing one stooge ever did to Moe--using the magic hand waving gesture to guide Moe all the way down to the floor and make him bump his head repeatedly. 

And, of course, there's the whole business with the cat and dog and Larry in the kitchen which probably needs no explanation--that scene speaks for itself.

Overall, I give this a 9 out of 10...

[Paul Pain]

Ah, the short but hilarious reign of Johnny Kascier, whom we were discussing a couple of weeks ago.  NOW we know why I brought his name up!

The opening scenes require you to mind your p's, q's, and onion's too while discussing how many carrots a diamond is.  But it may get you forced to cook lunch at gunpoint. 

There is some deliberate use of anachronisms here.  We have dinner the Stooges running an Arabian-styled restaurant with they and their guests in Arabian style garb, yet we have Western pets, flatware, condiments, and, oh yeah, a kitchen too!  Hassan ben Sober for not very long as he is as emotional as a drunk man.  All in all, though, it's typical Vernon Dent stuff: which is always more than welcome.

Note the poster above in metaldam's post.  Yes, that is Jerry Howard, the man we all know and love as Curly, in heavy costuming and such.  One can tell from the picture that he is not doing well.  It makes me want to rip my hair out and say, "Blast it, Curly, you still could had a chance to turn your life around!"  This raises the question: we know they filmed the scenes and stole one for the lobby card, but why did the scene get cut?

As for the kitchen scenes, Shemp_Diesel describes it all adequately.  But I will note the scene with Moe and Shemp thinking they're eating the dog and cat is hilarious.

The Stooges as Santy Clauses is an amusing bit stolen directly from WEE WEE MONSIEUR, but it's still good even here.  Unfortunately, this is the only Stooge appearance for Everett Brown (besides stock footage), but we get to enjoy his sword swinging.

This gives us another anachronism: the Emir of Schmow reading a comic book, and giggling like a child.  But by the end, the Emir is full of it anyway.

10/10

[Dr. Hugo Gansamacher]

Ah, Café Casbahbah! Service in your face. My, but that spaghetti looks tough, to see how it resists Shemp's shears when he cuts it off the forehead of Ginna Rummy.

The hot dog that licks Shemp's chin--what?? 

The high point, or high stretch, of the short, in my judgment, occurs just after Moe and Shemp discover that the cat and the dog are still alive and uncooked: Moe first slaps Larry, then, when Shemp objects, slaps Shemp, gives Shemp a conk in the belly to bring his chin down, puts Larry's fist to it, and gives Larry a blow to the elbow to administer an indirect punch to Shemp. Larry and Shemp respond by giving Moe a two-man magic hand-wave, whipping his head down, but Moe retaliates with a bilateral conk in the belly and in the forehead to the two of them at once. The whole bit lasts no more than ten seconds but is pure, sublime Stoogery from start to finish. It is this display that convinces Hassan Ben Sobar and Ginna Rummy that the boys are just the stooges (in the small-"s" sense) that they are looking for.

But then we get another of those corny maps.

I have to say that the guard who says, "There ain't no Santy Claus!" in this one hasn't got as quaintly incongruous a Brooklyn accent as the one in Wee Wee Monsieur.

Note the poster above in metaldam's post.  Yes, that is Jerry Howard, the man we all know and love as Curly, in heavy costuming and such.  One can tell from the picture that he is not doing well.  It makes me want to rip my hair out and say, "Blast it, Curly, you still could had a chance to turn your life around!"  This raises the question: we know they filmed the scenes and stole one for the lobby card, but why did the scene get cut?

The things one learns on this site!

[Paul Pain]

But then we get another of those corny maps.

Yet another example of the Stooges sneaking by the censors.

I think the living hot dog was better in INCOME TAX SAPPY, but that's a LONG time from now.

[Big Chief Apumtagribonitz]

Scenes get cut because they don't work.  Thinking how active Larry is in what we might call Take Two, chasing animals and the like, we might wonder how a recuperating ( ? ) Jerry could have pulled that off.  If he was too slow or tentative in any way, anything that clashed with the rest of the short, he'd get cut like any other scene that didn't work.  FWIW, I'm not convinced that the chef in the still is Jerry.  Maybe, maybe not, at this late date it's unprovable.  The likeness in this photo doesn't convince me, and from what I understand, there's not one scintilla of evidence beyond the one still. ( edited in later: wrong. )  And if Jerry was the chef in the scene, what was Larry's part?  Here's one I'll bounce off you: it could be that the takes, or maybe even just the rehearsal, were not up to snuff and just to have something they kept Jerry dressed and shot the still.  The still as shot has little to do with the plot as we know it - if that scene in the still was shot, then somewhere along the way extensive rewriting occurred.

[Dr. Hugo Gansamacher]

FWIW, I'm not convinced that the chef in the still is Jerry.  Maybe, maybe not, at this late date it's unprovable.  The likeness in this photo doesn't convince me, and from what I understand, there's not one scintilla of evidence beyond the one still.  And if Jerry was the chef in the scene, what was Larry's part?  Here's one I'll bounce off you:  maybe that scene was never filmed at all, maybe Jerry was just hanging around the set for old time's sake, and just for laughs they dressed him up and shot the still.  The still as shot has little to do with the plot as we know it - if that scene in the still was shot, then somewhere along the way extensive rewriting occurred.

To me the guy in the photo looks too lean and too tall to be Jerry Howard.

[Big Chief Apumtagribonitz]

He did supposedly lose a whole lot of weight in his illness, and he could be standing on a box, but in general you get no argument from me, Doctor.  It just seems to me to be one of the unknowables.  It seems odd, if it is another actor, that they would shoot only the one still without his being in the short.  Odd but certainly not unprecedented.  ( edited in later: apparently experts agree almost to a certainty that it is Jerry. )   I can see them taking the shot of Babe and then getting it on the lobby card as a morale booster.

[Paul Pain]

I'll save Be A Stooge the work and share this

Curly Howard filmed a brief scene as the restaurant's cook, but it was not used in the final print of the film. The dialogue for this lost scene was found in Jules White's copy of the script, and transcribed in The Three Stooges Journal # 106 (Summer 2003). A production still of Curly does exist, appearing on both the film's original one-sheet and lobby title card.

[Big Chief Apumtagribonitz]

Yeah, I just went back to the filmography and found that paragraph as you were writing, Paul Pain. Sorry if I've been talking through my hat,  though I'm guessing that there's still no evidence that they actually filmed that page of dialog.  This thread is making me sound more invested in this situation than I actually am.

[Paul Pain]

Is it possible that them filming the scene is referenced in one of the many Stooge books out there?

[hiramhorwitz]

Scenes get cut because they don't work.  Thinking how active Larry is in what we might call Take Two, chasing animals and the like, we might wonder how a recuperating ( ? ) Jerry could have pulled that off.  If he was too slow or tentative in any way, anything that clashed with the rest of the short, he'd get cut like any other scene that didn't work.  FWIW, I'm not convinced that the chef in the still is Jerry.  Maybe, maybe not, at this late date it's unprovable.  The likeness in this photo doesn't convince me, and from what I understand, there's not one scintilla of evidence beyond the one still.  And if Jerry was the chef in the scene, what was Larry's part?  Here's one I'll bounce off you:  maybe that scene was never filmed at all, maybe Jerry was just hanging around the set for old time's sake, and just for laughs they dressed him up and shot the still.  The still as shot has little to do with the plot as we know it - if that scene in the still was shot, then somewhere along the way extensive rewriting occurred.

The still in the lobby card was featured in Larry Fine's book Stroke of Luck, with the following caption:  "Curly Howard, at the time of his illness, returns to film this scene with Larry, Moe, and Shemp in 'Malice in the Palace'."   

Upon seeing that caption, I asked Larry about it in a letter.  Larry's response was (and I quote):  "Curly was not in the picture 'Malice in the Palace'.  He visited the set and we took some stills with him."

Later, when I visited Larry at the Motion Picture Home, I asked him about it again, hoping to get more details.  I didn't needle Larry for details -- I merely brought up the subject and hoped he'd elaborate.  As I recall, Larry responded with a simple generic answer like "No, Curly couldn't have been in the film -- he just wasn't well enough."  Whether that means Curly tried to film the scene, but was incapable of doing an acceptable job or whether it means Curly was incapable of even trying to film the scene is not clear.  Given the passage of time and the fact that everyone there that day is now gone -  we'll probably never know the details of what transpired.  Nonetheless, the information that does exist suggests Curly is the individual in the photograph and that the original intention was to have Curly appear in the film.   

[Big Chief Apumtagribonitz]

I've got a lot of the stooge books, not all, and the subject does not come up in any of mine.  I don't have Stroke of Luck, but Larry's explanation to you about Jerry visiting the set sounds good to me.  Didn't I read somewhere, in an excerpt from Edward Bernd's diaries, maybe, that Jerry's speech was affected by the stroke?  That would have ruined his chances with a page of dialog, I would think.  Wherever I read it, it mentions that his "spaniel" imitation in Hold That Lion was not affected, but his normal speech patterns were .

[Dr. Hugo Gansamacher]

The still in the lobby card was featured in Larry Fine's book Stroke of Luck, with the following caption:  "Curly Howard, at the time of his illness, returns to film this scene with Larry, Moe, and Shemp in 'Malice in the Palace'."   

Upon seeing that caption, I asked Larry about it in a letter.  Larry's response was (and I quote):  "Curly was not in the picture 'Malice in the Palace'.  He visited the set and we took some stills with him."

Well, that is pretty decisive.

[Big Chief Apumtagribonitz]

Yeah, I'll buy that.  And in any case, I'll stick with my original point ( at least I think it was my original point ) that if they filmed it and didn't use it, or never even filmed it at all, I don't think we need to lament a Lost Curly Gem.

[hiramhorwitz]

I can see them taking the shot of Babe and then getting it on the lobby card as a morale booster.

Your phrase "morale booster" is right on target.  In a June 1973 letter, Larry Fine answered a question about Curly's earlier cameo appearance with the following words:  "Yes, we had Curly do that bit in 'Hold that Lion' just to boost his morale, as he was sick at the time."

[Dr. Hugo Gansamacher]

Yeah, I'll buy that.  And in any case, I'll stick with my original point ( at least I think it was my original point ) that if they filmed it and didn't use it, or never even filmed it at all, I don't think we need to lament a Lost Curly Gem.

Oh, soitenly. Remember what it was like was to watch Curly in his last shorts? Try to imagine him performing when he was in even weaker condition! I would prefer not to see such footage even if it existed.

[GreenCanaries]

I have to say that the guard who says, "There ain't no Santy Claus!" in this one hasn't got as quaintly incongruous a Brooklyn accent as the one in Wee Wee Monsieur.

And ironically, Joe Palma (MALICE guard) was from NYC, while Bert Young (MONSIEUR guard) was from Chicago!

And to add my voice: Johnny Kascier knocks it out of the park yet again.

[Paul Pain]

hiramhorowitz is to the Three Stooges what I am to historic racing.  My friend, it is folks like you that make the careers of folks like Larry Fine worth it.

Oh, soitenly. Remember what it was like was to watch Curly in his last shorts? Try to imagine him performing when he was in even weaker condition! I would prefer not to see such footage even if it existed.

That would have been gutwrenching, to say the least.  But as I said above: "Damn it, Jerry!  You should have dumped the booze and girls!"

So this much we can conclude: it is Curly in the picture, and there is little to no chance any film was shot, and even if they had it would have required him to have no speaking parts, at which point why bother?  It does explain the moustache, however, as Curly's stroke probably would have been obvious without that thing blocking his face.  From what I can tell, he has a firm grip on the knife, so at least he was still capable of doing that much.

Enjoy it.  It's a rare shot of the three Horowitz brothers together.

I've been going at it in these discussions with you guys for 18 months now, and the only regret I have out of it is watching the boys age.  The developments in their lives are evident going through it like this.

[metaldams]

The still in the lobby card was featured in Larry Fine's book Stroke of Luck, with the following caption:  "Curly Howard, at the time of his illness, returns to film this scene with Larry, Moe, and Shemp in 'Malice in the Palace'."   

Upon seeing that caption, I asked Larry about it in a letter.  Larry's response was (and I quote):  "Curly was not in the picture 'Malice in the Palace'.  He visited the set and we took some stills with him."

Later, when I visited Larry at the Motion Picture Home, I asked him about it again, hoping to get more details.  I didn't needle Larry for details -- I merely brought up the subject and hoped he'd elaborate.  As I recall, Larry responded with a simple generic answer like "No, Curly couldn't have been in the film -- he just wasn't well enough."  Whether that means Curly tried to film the scene, but was incapable of doing an acceptable job or whether it means Curly was incapable of even trying to film the scene is not clear.  Given the passage of time and the fact that everyone there that day is now gone -  we'll probably never know the details of what transpired.  Nonetheless, the information that does exist suggests Curly is the individual in the photograph and that the original intention was to have Curly appear in the film.

...and you consider Larry Fine a credible source?  Pfft!  Kidding, kidding.  No seriously, hard to get more definitive than that, and again, you're lucky you had the opportunity to ask him!  Thanks for the sharing that.

[Big Chief Apumtagribonitz]

Having now re-read this many hours later, it's very clear that many thanks are owed to Hiramhorwitz, who held the key, and certainly was able to clear up my foggy view of things, to say the least if not less.  Thanks, HH.

[Paul Pain]

Leave it to Felix Adler to write a Stooge script that calls for stock footage and in that 15 seconds (and, yes, I counted) of stock footage just happen to include a dead guy.  The man had a confused career as he is the genius that wrote MEN IN BLACK and DISORDER IN THE COURT as well as the idiot that gave us EVEN AS IOU and the "Fake Shemp" shorts.  If you go through and look at Felix Adler's Stooge résumé, you will find many of the Stooge classics there, if not the vast majority of them.  Many others were written by Ellwood Ullman.

Why make a fuss?  Because script writing is an unloved art that I have come to appreciate thanks to the details available on the Stooges website.  Now I have not checked, but I am sure if you make this check, you will find some stylistic similarities in the shorts with the same scriptwriter, or in particular the same story writer, because that is the gist, though Felix almost always did both the story and the screenplay.

The reason?  We talk about how the Stooges make bad stories good.  It's that combination that goes into things.  Even if the Stooges and Jules White are brilliant during a 3-day shoot, does it matter if the plot is complete crud like MUTTS TO YOU?  It's that third piece of the wheel.  You need a good writer to make a good short (Felix Adler), then good actors to deliver it (the Stooges), and a good director to guide the process along, correct errors, and tell the boom mic operator to cast a giant shadow across the entire set (Jules White).

We now return to the usual comments on just the actors and directors.

[hiramhorwitz]

hiramhorowitz is to the Three Stooges what I am to historic racing.  My friend, it is folks like you that make the careers of folks like Larry Fine worth it.

...and you consider Larry Fine a credible source?  Pfft!  Kidding, kidding.  No seriously, hard to get more definitive than that, and again, you're lucky you had the opportunity to ask him!  Thanks for the sharing that.

Having now re-read this many hours later, it's very clear that many thanks are owed to Hiramhorwitz, who held the key, and certainly was able to clear up my foggy view of things, to say the least if not less.  Thanks, HH.

You're certainly welcome -- nothing's more fun than pulling information from Larry's old letters and finding that it's still relevant today.  After 40+ years, my perspective on the "Malice in the Palace" shot continues to evolve.  Here's how:

November 1973 -- I saw the photo and caption in Stroke of Luck and thought "Wow!  Is that really Curly?  I don't remember that part of the film.  Why haven't I seen it?"

January 1974 -- I received Larry's letter stating that Curly didn't appear in Malice in the Palace, was sick at the time, and only appeared in the publicity photo.  I could only wonder "Well, if Curly was well enough to appear in the publicity shot, why couldn't he also have appeared in the short?  He had appeared in Hold that Lion and was good in that!"

April 1974 -- Face to face, Larry told me Curly was too sick to appear in the film.  I still didn't quite 'get it,' as I couldn't comprehend how Curly was well enough to appear in Hold that Lion, and well enough to appear in the Malice still, but not well enough to make a cameo appearance in Malice.  Recognize I was 16 at the time and couldn't imagine that someone in their 40s was capable of having lost their youthful vitality.  I also didn't know at the time that Curly's stroke may have affected his speech and mobility. 

Summer 2003 -- Issue #106 of The Three Stooges Journal arrives and contains Brent Seguine's article providing additional clues.  Most importantly, the article highlights two lines of dialogue written for a chef character in the original script.  These include "Fix it yourself...I'm going to lunch" and "Certainly...you don't think I'd eat in this dump."  Based on this, it is pretty clear that a small chef role was part of the original plan, and based on the publicity still, that role was intended for Curly.

Last couple of years -- Various issues of Three Stooges Journal have included candid photos of Curly in the post-stroke era.  Most show him seated, with a cane.  Seeing these photos is wonderful.  But they do make clear that Curly’s glory days were behind him by this point in his life.  Also fueling the Malice debate has been a series of photo comparisons, showing the facial features of the chef in the publicity still versus the facial characteristics of Curly taken from other sources.  In my opinion, these comparisons make clear that the chef in the publicity still is indeed Curly.

2015 – When I look at the Malice publicity still now, I see it in a very different light.  I look at the piece of furniture directly behind Curly (to me, it appears to be flush against him) and see it as a support system providing stability so Curly doesn’t fall backwards.  Similarly, I see Curly’s left hand on Larry’s head as being a means of maintaining Curly’s balance, with Larry serving as the anchor.  Lastly, I wonder if the apron around Curly’s lower body conceals something providing additional support to him, like a brace.

The things that come with the passage of time!

[metaldams]

Leave it to Felix Adler to write a Stooge script that calls for stock footage and in that 15 seconds (and, yes, I counted) of stock footage just happen to include a dead guy.  The man had a confused career as he is the genius that wrote MEN IN BLACK and DISORDER IN THE COURT as well as the idiot that gave us EVEN AS IOU and the "Fake Shemp" shorts.  If you go through and look at Felix Adler's Stooge résumé, you will find many of the Stooge classics there, if not the vast majority of them.  Many others were written by Ellwood Ullman.

Why make a fuss?  Because script writing is an unloved art that I have come to appreciate thanks to the details available on the Stooges website.  Now I have not checked, but I am sure if you make this check, you will find some stylistic similarities in the shorts with the same scriptwriter, or in particular the same story writer, because that is the gist, though Felix almost always did both the story and the screenplay.

The reason?  We talk about how the Stooges make bad stories good.  It's that combination that goes into things.  Even if the Stooges and Jules White are brilliant during a 3-day shoot, does it matter if the plot is complete crud like MUTTS TO YOU?  It's that third piece of the wheel.  You need a good writer to make a good short (Felix Adler), then good actors to deliver it (the Stooges), and a good director to guide the process along, correct errors, and tell the boom mic operator to cast a giant shadow across the entire set (Jules White).

We now return to the usual comments on just the actors and directors.

      There is a school of film thought called "the auteur theory" where one person, usually the director, gets all the credit.  I'm just as guilty as anyone for falling into this.  You're right, we don't talk about the writers enough, and it would be interesting to go back and see if we can study any patterns with certain writers.

[Kopfy2013]

 Nice thread. Hiram what else did you ask Larry about? Did  you create a transcript of the conversations?

 As for the short, it was a good short. I definitely love the hotdog scene.   Not too excited with the Santa Claus scene.

 I give this an eight.