Topic: Re: using Stooges speak in Congaland

[Shemoeley Fine]

Just back from my annual sojourn to my home island of Kubanakán(indigenous name), Cuba. This was my first time there since recapturing my active love for the Stooges and joining this forum.  After asking around old timers with the help of my eldest uncle I found out about and  went to the home of a retired projectionist who is 84 years old and spent over 60 years working at the same movie house in Santiago de Cuba, mid 30's 'til the late 90's. He told me that over the years many Stooges 2-reelers, as he called them 'dos rollos' were shown. He told me the films arrived from Mexico City along with many other full-lengths, shorts, newsreel etc. He told me he wasn't a fan but recalls the audience loving them. I asked if if there were lobby cards or other posters sent with them, he seemed to remember that on ocassion the movie house would recieve a Stooges poster but was unaware of anyone having any or if they were in storage with other lobby promo material.  I would have loved to have found a lobby card for the Stooges in Spanish or for the Latin America countries.  Does any member have any knowledge of the Columbia distributors for Latin America and or Cuba? Anyone have a clue as to how many countries in Latin America or the world for that matter were Stooges shorts distibuted to? How many languages were they dubbed into or sub-titles utilized?

Santiago de Cuba on the Eastern end of Cuba by Guantánamo ranks with New Orleans as the world's most musical cities, it's the birthplace of the conga rhythm and dance-line used by the Stooges several times over the years. I left word with my family members to be on the lookout for anyone who might have any clue for anyone who has any old movie promo materials and in particular Stooges stuff, perhaps old Cuban entertainment magazines with Stooges articles or pictures.

The buzz on the street and my most asked about or commented about theme is the amazement that the US has banned Cuba from playing baseball in the upcoming World Tournament by denying visas for the players.

It seems that no one younger than 55 know who the Stooges were as they haven't been seen in Cuba since the late 50's

Stooging in Congaville.....

Shemoeley Fine

[Pilsner Panther]

I split this off into a new topic, because I think it's an interesting subject on its own. That is, how are the Stooges thought of in other cultures? There are some comedians from that same era (Cantinflás comes to mind) who are just as famous in the Spanish-speaking world as the Stooges are here in the Anglo sector, but they've never caught on elsewhere. In the silent era, Chaplin, Keaton, Lloyd, and Langdon had a universal appeal, because they could communicate without words. The Stooges would be good candidates for the same kind of cross-cultural popularity, because their comedy was as much physical as verbal. I wonder if, say, the Marx Brothers or W.C. Fields went over that well in non-English speaking countries? It seems to me that they'd be at a disadvantage because their humor depended so much on dialogue.

[Bruckman]

This is an interesting question. The Marxes were popular in England (Groucho's verbal wit seems to have appealed to the English). I don't know how they fared in other countries but they seem to have carried a fair bit of popularity in Europe throughout the 30s. I know very little about Fields' popularity in other countries. none of the Fields bios make much mention of this topic; yet he was a headliner all across Europe, South Africa, Australia, etc. when on the stage, so I would think some of that notice would've carried over into his film career. Laurel and Hardy were immensely popular in Spanish-speaking countries, Europe, the UK, even Asia - even more so than they were in the US - a skewed appreciation which continues right down to the present day - the best L&H DVD sets come from Europe nowadays, whereas here in the US Hallmasr sits on their film rights with the grumpy disdain of Silas Marner.

A Stooge lobby card from pre-Castro Cuba would be a fascinating item to obtain - and Cuba has the advantage, over the US in one regard, in that the island is somewhat preserved in time; nothing is discarded.

The above is one of the reasons I've always wanted to visit Cuba: the fact that in some ways it's still lodged in the 1950s and I can experience what a Caribbean island was like before overdevelopment and tourism and Royal Caribbean overran the entire region. I wrote my MA thesis on Hemingway, so there's another reason I've wanted to visit - I'd love to go out to Hemingway's finca. hoist a Papa Doble at the Floridita, see the locales of Islands in the Stream, etc. I have half a dozen books on Cuban history, ranging in publication date from the 30s (Carleton Beals' THE CRIME OF CUBA, which has photos by Walker Evans of Cuba during its violent flux between Batista and Carlos Manuel de Cespedes) down to James Michener's travel book of the 90s. Plus the island has great rum and cigars and i imagine the fishing is still OK though not what it was in Papa Hemingway's era. One of my friends (a Canadian) went to Cuba on his honeymoon. He said it's not the place for great luxury but I despise pampered tourists and their resorts, I prefer places with a little roughness and improvisation, and I'd like to get to Cuba before that's rubbed off. Once Castro's gone every big developer will be snapping up the island and it'll be controlled by more big-money interests than it was even in Batista's heyday.

"dos rollos" = two reels, roughly translated, i.e. the running time of yr typical short.

I'm pretty sure the Stooges would've been dubbed back in their cinema days, in foreign countries.

[garystooge]

Does any member have any knowledge of the Columbia distributors for Latin America and or Cuba? Anyone have a clue as to how many countries in Latin America or the world for that matter were Stooges shorts distibuted to? How many languages were they dubbed into or sub-titles utilized?

There are really only 2 types of evidence that we now have regarding foreign distribution of Stooges films.  One is the anecdotal type of evidence that you obtained on your trip from that retired projectionist. The other is from posters that document films that were released in foreign countries. I've been collecting these posters for many years. Just about all the foreign posters I've seen date from  1959-1965 and promote one of the Curly-Joe feature films. Besides a 1934 Mexican poster for "Dancing Lady", I've only seen one pre-1959 foreign poster promoting a Stooges film. It's an Argentine "stock" poster.  A stock poster does not not promote any specific film title. This one has a large blank area where the theater owner could fill in the name of a specific film if he wanted to. Lithography on this poster was done by a "F. Springer & Co." from Buenos Aires. I presume that if there are other pre-1959 foreign posters designed to promote the shorts, they were most likely stock posters as well.

After 1959, posters promoting Stooges feature films exist from the following countries:
Argentina, Australia, Belgium, Canada, Denmark. England, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Mexico, Sweden, Thailand and Turkey. Certainly, there may be others. The posters printed in Mexico or Argentina were probably used in other Latin or South American countries.  And there may be countries where the shorts or features aired on TV but did not receive theatrical release. I have a Brazillian Stooges comic book in Portuguese which leads me to believe the Boys probably aired on TV there since I've never seen a Stooges movie poster in Portuguese.

Unfortunately I have no specific knowledge regarding theatrical or TV release in Cuba. I've never seen any Cuban posters or heard any anecdotal evidence that the Stooges aired there in theaters or on TV.

Sorry to be so round-about...hope this addresses some of your questions.
Gary

[Pilsner Panther]

I'm pretty sure the Stooges would've been dubbed back in their cinema days, in foreign countries.

At least Columbia didn't do to the Stooges what MGM did to poor Buster Keaton when they started putting him in early sound films. No one had thought up the concept of dubbing yet, so he'd film a script in English, then in French, then in Spanish, then in German, playing opposite actors who spoke in those languages. He had to learn each foriegn-language part phonetically, then forget it and go on to the next one. Buster later said that he did okay, but when he'd finished fiming in say, French, and started the German film, the director would complain that he was speaking German with a French accent!

No wonder he started drinking heavily (well, that wasn't the only reason).

[Bruckman]

At least Columbia didn't do to the Stooges what MGM did to poor Buster Keaton when they started putting him in early sound films. No one had thought up the concept of dubbing yet, so he'd film a script in English, then in French, then in Spanish, then in German, playing opposite actors who spoke in those languages. He had to learn each foriegn-language part phonetically, then forget it and go on to the next one. Buster later said that he did okay, but when he'd finished fiming in say, French, and started the German film, the director would complain that he was speaking German with a French accent!

--------------------------------------------------

Laurel and Hardy did this too - before Keaton, so MGM, rathet than accept the immense loss of foreign revenue, must have decided to put Keaton through the same process.

I've seen 4 "foreign" L&H films: the Spanish versions of BLOTTO, THE LAUREL-HARDY MURDER CASE, CHICKENS COME HOME, and PARDON US. The first 2 I have on tape. I've seen clips of Keaton speaking Spanish from the Spanish version of FREE AND EASY.

L&H's Spanish, even to a non-speaker of that language, are terrible - hilariously terrible. (Imagine Stan saying "Ay caramba!"). In all 4 cases the Spanish versions run longer than the US prints, some considerably so. LA VIDA NOCTURNA, the Spanish BLOTTO, runs a good 45 min., almost twice as long as the US release print.

MGM seems to have made a brief practice of remaking some of their films in foreign lang. versions (not just Keaton) during the 1930-31 season, but costs brought this practice to an end. Still it must have been fun for people in spain or Mexico to hear a star like Gable attempt Spanish. In the case of L&H or Keaton, the lousy accents didn't matter so much - it's comedy after all. Dramatic stars, however, were a different story.....

Hal Roach said the returns on these supersized, translated shorts were enormous - they played as features (hence the extra running time) - so Nick Schenck must've believed Buster's returns would've done just as well. And apparently, he wasn't wrong.....

[Shemoeley Fine]

While the legendary Dracula with Bela Lugosi was being filmed in 1931 during the day, at night using the same set and wardrobe Dracula was being filmed in español for México, Spain, Argentina, Cuba(the 4 largest markets) and América Latina. I have always read that the Spanish version was superior, better acted and more dramatic (of course, we Latinos are more passionate, ever see a novela or Spanish soaps?) I tallked to many elders who recalled it foundly and read many reviews of it by non-Spanish speakers talking highly about it.

Finally, a few years ago the deluxe Dracula DVD set was released with the Spanish version on a bonus CD. Sure enough it is a superior movie, regardless of language. The disc also had a docu on its making with surviving cast members. The reason it was better is that the crew at night had the advantage of viewing the dailies and seeing what worked well and what could be improved. The leading lady was Lupita Tovar who is still alive.  Check it out for yourself.

S  F

[Pilsner Panther]

"Free and Easy" might be funnier if all the lines were spoken in Urdu, Farsi, Tagalog, Greek, Hunan, or Nepalese. It sure is a major stinker in English.

There are a few good scenes, like when Buster is trying to make a speech from the steps of a passenger train, and he keeps getting drowned out by a brass band every time he opens his mouth... obviously, an original Keaton gag.

But otherwise,  feh. Trixie Friganza as the overbearing mother-in-law is more annoying than anyone else in the picture, which is really saying something. She's almost the co-star, too. Imagine a Margaret Dumont who somehow isn't funny, and there you have Trixie Friganza.