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Three Stooges shorts coming to Blu-ray this summer

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Offline PeteHale

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Offline NoahYoung

I recently bought the DVD set, so I don't see me buying the Blu-Ray. But I am curious how they look in HD.


Nice! Enjoy what you already have! No need to have HD-envy.
 [clap]
Burt Lancaster was too short!
- The Birdman of Alcatraz


Offline Tony Bensley

Nice! Enjoy what you already have! No need to have HD-envy.
 [clap]
I've recently been watching the 3 Stooges shorts not included (Far as we know, LOL!) in the upcoming Blu-ray set on my Acer PC Laptop setup with my 32 inch 720p Toshiba TV attached. Most of the shorts look just fine, although the audio quality somewhat fluctuates, which I probably notice more as I've been using my headphones for most of the shorts. The most recent one I watched today is BEER BARREL POLECATS (1946), which does look rather nice on the Sony DVD set! Doubling my Laptop's RAM from 6 to 12 GB yesterday is also helping the general video playback not look so jerky, LOL!!  :laugh:

CHEERS!  [3stooges]



Offline Hello Larry

This set is a total missed opportunity for Sony. Who knows about the omissions and if they have anything to do with content but why would that matter when you've already established a complete collection on standard DVD years ago?

In addition, the shorts are all available for broadcast (for free) on MeTV / MeTV+ - it is up to the channel if they pull certain titles or cut them down to their 'really short shorts' presentation as is the case with The Yoke's On Me. All 190 are uncut and available on YouTube (for free). If you are an Amazon prime subscriber, you can see them on the Live Three Stooges channel.

So, going with the theory that some have been pulled from this set as a result of questionable content, why would Sony make these accessible for free via these other avenues then 'ban' them for private purchase for someone's home video collection? It doesn't make sense. Throw a disclaimer in there and move forward.

Then again, it is Sony. The same company who, back in the VHS days, released 6 volumes of Stooges shorts with only one new short per tape (the remaining two were previously released in earlier volumes). Yet, I bought them all as I wanted to have whatever was released. Then after a while the print quality of some films got worse with Sony using 16mm prints (Three Smart Saps, Monkey Businessmen, and the worst offender in my memory - Studio Stoops, come to mind. Moving to DVD, we had those colorized collections which were just awful. Then, it's as if a bell went off and they released the whole filmography in chronological order!

Now - this! The set looks cheap. Do we not have a better picture of pre-stroke Curly to adorn the cover art? Plus - this is a picture from Swing Parade of 1946 - it's not even a Columbia release!!! The whole packaging looks like a cheap public domain set. I can do without the sound effects button. I had the Curly talking bottle opener and as the battery started to die, it sounded like Curly after his stroke. Clever marketing although I'm not sure that was the desired effect. Anyway - I digress.

This is yet again another example of Sony not understanding their target demographic for such a release - a demographic who wants the entire filmography, not a filmography that has been hand picked by someone who isn't familiar with it. This could be such a perfect tribute to their legacy and they've screwed it up. Now - Warner and Disney have made their questionable films (the Censored 11 and Song of the South respectively) very public. Yet, I don't recall Sony ever making such a public scene about the content of Three Stooges shorts. Throw a disclaimer in there and move on. I highly doubt the people who watchdog such things are even aware of any of the content in these films.

And speaking of the shorts airing on MeTV / MeTV+, there is an annoying pattern with some shorts where the end title cards have been altered. This mostly occurs with 1930s / early 40s Curly films where it fades out and the end card has been replaced with the end card from the late 40's. In many cases the music is replaced as well so a film like Violent is the Word for Curly fades with the Listen to the Mockingbird theme then it abruptly cuts to Three Blind Mice and the 40s end card (usually with the jazzy theme from Idiots Deluxe). Now I know MeTV has edited the content of some shorts (We Want Our Mummy and Slaphappy Sleuths) but I don't know if the end card edits are unique to the package they broadcast. I can't figure out who would do that and I don't think tv stations have editing bays anymore. The question is - why?  With all of Sony's chicanery over the years, it would not surprise me if these screw ups found their way into the prints on the Blu-ray set as well.



Offline NoahYoung

A few months ago I caught IDLE ROOMERS on MeTV and I'm pretty sure it was edited. I remember years ago seeing the 10 minute version of WE WANT OUR MUMMY on one of the free cable channels. I assume it was the same as the Super 8 and 8mm release from Columbia from the 70s, which for some reason was only around 10 minutes. At the time, I didn't have the Super 8 print -- now I do. I think I might have recorded it on tape from TV back in the 90s. It would be interesting to compare.

Is every short still on youtube? I thought they were gradually disappearing. Recently I was looking for one (I forgot which) and all I could find were brief clips.

I didn't know they used 16mm prints for some shorts on VHS (never saw them). Quality would depend on whether or not it was an "original" print or a dupe. I have a handful in 16mm, and projected on a 5 foot wide screen they look the same as HD -- perhaps better. (I prefer film.) So they either used dupes or the transfer work from 16mm was poor.

Burt Lancaster was too short!
- The Birdman of Alcatraz


Offline NoahYoung

Music for home use had the same evolution, tho spaced out over a much longer time span. First came piano rolls assuming you could afford a VERY expensive player piano. Then wax cylinders, which were plentiful, but you had to buy a player. Both can be purchased at antique shops today. Then came 78 rpm’s which required a whole new playing apparatus. 78’s were the standard for decades, but were quickly eclipsed by 45’s, LP’s, 8-track and cassette tapes, then CD’s. Now it’s all downloadable. What’s a music lover to do?

I collect LPs, CDs, and FLAC files. On one hand, I'm delighted that vinyl has made a strong comeback, but the consequence is that it has driven the price up of vintage LPs.

I never got hoodwinked into SACDs. I still have some cassettes, which I used to collect in the 80s. I never did 8-track.

I like vintage LPs more for the mastering rather than the format, although I do enjoy handling records and putting them on a turntable. For vintage music, it's ironic that the earliest CD issues are usually the best. Why? They didn't have the newer technology to mess them up! [pie] When a CD says "remastered", run the other way!

Way off topic: we call LPs analog, which is correct. But with film, the term "analog" is really incorrect. In fact, film is more akin to digital music. Let me explain.

Take CDs, for instance. The music is sampled at distinct intervals -- a 44.1kHz sample rate, which means that every second, 44,100 samples were taken.

Now for film: the sample rate is a mere 24 samples per second. That's it. It's not analog at all!

So digital representations of film should be really, really good. For HD, say, you only need 24 scans of 1080x1920 pixels per second. But then we get into the math of the frequency of electricity, which is either 50Hz or 60Hz. So this is where things get complicated. And 24fps becomes 23.976fps for video (in the U.S.) And sometimes 29.97. It gets complicated, and if you Google it you will get a million explanations, all pretty much the same.

I'm not debating that HD or SD is really good. I just think that there are so many other variables to consider, not the least of which the quality of your TV. And how many different settings it has. And how you adjust the settings. So what it really comes down to is apples vs oranges when one person says this blu-ray is great, and the other says it sucks. Even if they both own the exact same TV -- make and model. One person may have the settings configured differently.

You can spend hours, days, weeks, trying to get the settings right. I usually just pick a pre-set on my TV, and maybe tweak one or two settings in the pre-set, and save it to a custom setting. The problem with my particular TV (LG) is that it stores an entirely different group of setting for each input on the TV. So I may get it set up OK for cable, but then I have to set it up again for streaming, and again for a DVD or Blu-ray player. And it doesn't allow you to copy a setting from input to input. So you need to write the settings down on a piece of payer and manually set it up for each input. Geesh! And the thing is, it took me a while to figure out that it wasn't sharing the setting among inputs. It wasn't obvious, other than wondering why the picture suddenly didn't look right. And oh yea, my old DVD player has settings you can tweak too. Good luck, Charlie!

Even with all those variables that you actually have control over, if they messed up the video transfer, they messed up the video transfer!

With B&W films especially, like the Stooges, you really need to have the black and white balance and contrast adjusted spot on. When done properly, B&W films have a depth to them that I feel you can never get with color. And that, my friends, is why I feel that there is no substitute for viewing movies, that were shot on film, as projected film, with the film running through a projector. It really comes across with vintage B&W movies -- almost 3D-like. To me the old IB Technicolor had a similar effect, but it's been about 50 years since that system was retired, even in theaters -- so not sure how many people here remember seeing an IB Tech print projected in a theater.

The moral of the story -- if you're happy with your Stooges DVDs, enjoy them. My prediction is that the reviews of the blu-ray will be like the Laurel and Hardy Definitive Restorations -- "they removed the grain!", "the images look waxy", "they sharpened the edges", "they cropped the image wrong", etc. They've already dropped the ball by dropping shorts from the set -- so what else will the mess up?   >:D

Then again, maybe it will turn out great! Only one way to really find out, but I'll find out by reading the reviews just out of curiosity.
Burt Lancaster was too short!
- The Birdman of Alcatraz


Offline PeteHale

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As mad as some people are about certain, they should be grateful Sony doesn't censor the shorts. I collect cartoon DVDs and its a pain from Warners in how they handle both their own cartoons and MGM's. Disney did well with is Treasures, though.


Offline NoahYoung

I have a theory, but it has a hole in it because they are including all the Joe DeRita features owned by Sony. Why they would do this and leave out 90 shorts is still a mystery.

Anyway, just conjecture...but consider this:

Sony determines that there is demand for the Stooges on blu-ray. Perhaps they did some marketing survey. The hard work is the 2K scans - - which are already done. This is an opportunity to generate revenue with a project that has relatively little cost.

Now the analytics people crunch the numbers. They figure out how many of these sets they will sell. The stuffed shirts tell the analytics group that they want it to generate X dollars. The analytics people crunch numbers again, since they still must determine what the costs are to author and produce the blu-ray sets. For example, the cost to do 50 shorts is less than 100 shorts, which is less than all 190. (Let's forget the other films they are including for simplicity.)

The magic number is 100 shorts. So they go with that. How do they they pick the 100 they will include -- I don't know.

Perhaps it is as simple as that.

----------------------------------------------

Now if you really need to own HD version of these films although you already have the complete DVDs, that's fine.

I grew up watching these and other classics (and all other TV shows and movies) on broadcast TV, not cable. The TV screens were small compared to the average one now. Reception of the TV was hit or miss, depending on the channel. My Dad optimized the position of the antenna on our roof to get the best reception on most channels, but several channels still came in bad. The Stooges and Abbott and Costello were shown on WPIX in NYC, and our reception for this channel was among the best of all the channels. But it was still broadcast TV.

With today's TV screens, and a DVD player, there is a world of difference in picture quality than what I grew up with. HD is nice for cable and streaming, but at the end of the day, I don't need no stinkin' blu-ray player.  :D

Now take the Stooges shorts. When these were released to theaters, viewers saw 4th generation prints. Camera neg->fine grain->dupe neg-> release print.

For the DVDs and blu-rays, you are most likely seeing scans of an earlier generation. I believe they can scan camera negs and turn them into positives with software. The producers of these films knew that these 4th generation release prints wouldn't reveal some of the secrets to some special effects -- like perhaps a wire attached to Curly to lift him in the air. Or a matte background. Or rear-projection (unless it was done really badly.) So although you will get first-class clarity with HD, you may be seeing the shorts not as they were intended to be shown. And you may see a boom mic or other equipment if they scanned the entire frame, which would have been masked by the projectors gate in the theaters in the 30s, 40s, and 50s. And then everyone and his brother will write in social media and IMDB about these "goofs".

And let's face it -- who is watching Stooges shorts for the cinematography? NORTH BY NORTHWEST might benefit from HD -- actually it does, I'll give you that much.

Just sayin'...


Burt Lancaster was too short!
- The Birdman of Alcatraz


Offline Tony Bensley

I have a theory, but it has a hole in it because they are including all the Joe DeRita features owned by Sony. Why they would do this and leave out 90 shorts is still a mystery.

Anyway, just conjecture...but consider this:

Sony determines that there is demand for the Stooges on blu-ray. Perhaps they did some marketing survey. The hard work is the 2K scans - - which are already done. This is an opportunity to generate revenue with a project that has relatively little cost.

Now the analytics people crunch the numbers. They figure out how many of these sets they will sell. The stuffed shirts tell the analytics group that they want it to generate X dollars. The analytics people crunch numbers again, since they still must determine what the costs are to author and produce the blu-ray sets. For example, the cost to do 50 shorts is less than 100 shorts, which is less than all 190. (Let's forget the other films they are including for simplicity.)

The magic number is 100 shorts. So they go with that. How do they they pick the 100 they will include -- I don't know.

Perhaps it is as simple as that.

----------------------------------------------

Now if you really need to own HD version of these films although you already have the complete DVDs, that's fine.

I grew up watching these and other classics (and all other TV shows and movies) on broadcast TV, not cable. The TV screens were small compared to the average one now. Reception of the TV was hit or miss, depending on the channel. My Dad optimized the position of the antenna on our roof to get the best reception on most channels, but several channels still came in bad. The Stooges and Abbott and Costello were shown on WPIX in NYC, and our reception for this channel was among the best of all the channels. But it was still broadcast TV.

With today's TV screens, and a DVD player, there is a world of difference in picture quality than what I grew up with. HD is nice for cable and streaming, but at the end of the day, I don't need no stinkin' blu-ray player.  :D

Now take the Stooges shorts. When these were released to theaters, viewers saw 4th generation prints. Camera neg->fine grain->dupe neg-> release print.

For the DVDs and blu-rays, you are most likely seeing scans of an earlier generation. I believe they can scan camera negs and turn them into positives with software. The producers of these films knew that these 4th generation release prints wouldn't reveal some of the secrets to some special effects -- like perhaps a wire attached to Curly to lift him in the air. Or a matte background. Or rear-projection (unless it was done really badly.) So although you will get first-class clarity with HD, you may be seeing the shorts not as they were intended to be shown. And you may see a boom mic or other equipment if they scanned the entire frame, which would have been masked by the projectors gate in the theaters in the 30s, 40s, and 50s. And then everyone and his brother will write in social media and IMDB about these "goofs".

And let's face it -- who is watching Stooges shorts for the cinematography? NORTH BY NORTHWEST might benefit from HD -- actually it does, I'll give you that much.

Just sayin'...
Quite honestly, the more of the 90 not included on the upcoming Blu-ray release Three Stooges shorts I view from The Ultimate Collection DVD set, the less I feel any kind of pressing need to upgrade! At most, there might be a handful of shorts out of the 190 that would potentially significantly benefit.

As it stands, in "The Ghost Talks (1948)" at one point, the wire on the face armour is quite clearly visible!

CHEERS!  [3stooges]


Offline NoahYoung

Quite honestly, the more of the 90 not included on the upcoming Blu-ray release Three Stooges shorts I view from The Ultimate Collection DVD set, the less I feel any kind of pressing need to upgrade! At most, there might be a handful of shorts out of the 190 that would potentially significantly benefit.

As it stands, in "The Ghost Talks (1948)" at one point, the wire on the face armour is quite clearly visible!

CHEERS!  [3stooges]
Ha ha ha - exactly as I predicted.

I couldn't find a list of the 100 shorts included. I could only find the feature-length films included and "100 shorts".

Enjoy your DVDs!

I'm holding out for a 10K player and 10K Stooges collection.

Burt Lancaster was too short!
- The Birdman of Alcatraz


Offline Larrys#1

Hah! 4K, 8K, then 10K... As someone who owns a 55" OLED 4K TV, I can tell you that HD looks amazing as it is on my TV. The leap to 4K is only a minor boost, with the biggest upgrade being HDR. If it weren't for HDR, I wouldn't have any reason to have to buy anything in 4K because HD already looks fantastic! I'm pretty confident that *IF* I buy these shorts in HD, that will likely by my final purchase.


Offline Tony Bensley

Ha ha ha - exactly as I predicted.

I couldn't find a list of the 100 shorts included. I could only find the feature-length films included and "100 shorts".

Enjoy your DVDs!

I'm holding out for a 10K player and 10K Stooges collection.
I saw a list posted awhile back, and I copied and pasted the Three Stooges Columbia Shorts list for reference. Sadly, much to my chagrin, I just found the bolded text that indicates the included shorts won't properly display here, so my pasting them here won't help, YEESH!!  :(



Offline metaldams

I have blu ray but am not going further.  With most classic comedy, I am fine with DVD.  If it was previously badly restored or presented I’ll buy the blu ray (I.e. the Laurel and Hardy silent DVDs having the same bloody music throughout).  For a very visual filmmaker like Buster Keaton, I’ve taken the dive with his features.  But I mostly upgrade to blu rays for my Universal Horror and especially Euro Horror/giallo stuff, which is much more visual.  A 4K blu ray restoration of SUSPIRIA is more necessary than A PLUMBING WE WILL GO.  I love them both, but for very different reasons.

Even Charlie Chaplin, I’m fine with DVD.
- Doug Sarnecky


Offline Tony Bensley

I have blu ray but am not going further.  With most classic comedy, I am fine with DVD.  If it was previously badly restored or presented I’ll buy the blu ray (I.e. the Laurel and Hardy silent DVDs having the same bloody music throughout).  For a very visual filmmaker like Buster Keaton, I’ve taken the dive with his features.  But I mostly upgrade to blu rays for my Universal Horror and especially Euro Horror/giallo stuff, which is much more visual.  A 4K blu ray restoration of SUSPIRIA is more necessary than A PLUMBING WE WILL GO.  I love them both, but for very different reasons.

Even Charlie Chaplin, I’m fine with DVD.
Ah yes, that annoying repetitive music track on the old Laurel & Hardy DVD releases, not to mention the vastly improved visuals on the Year One 1927 Silents Blu-ray set by Flicker Alley! I can't wait for the 1928-29 L&H silents to get a Blu-ray release!! The Little Rascals 80 Hal Roach sound shorts also greatly benefited from digital restorations, with many of them scanned from superior looking nitrate prints and better sounding soundtracks!

The fact is, with very few exceptions (IE. The dupey looking "Whoops, I'm An Indian (1936);" which I've read elsewhere actually looks better on the Three Stooges early '00s "Healthy, Wealthy & Dumb" DVD release!), The Three Stooges Columbia shorts as they appear on The Ultimate Collection Volumes derive from pristine or near pristine prints, and are well encoded on those Sony DVDs. In my opinion, there's just not that much need to upgrade them, relatively speaking!

CHEERS!  [3stooges]


Offline NoahYoung

Ah yes, that annoying repetitive music track on the old Laurel & Hardy DVD releases

You mean "The Lost Films of" series, whose films were never actually lost? Yes, they took the music from the small handful of L&H silents that had an original Vitaphone disc and re-purposed them for all the others. The European releases of said films usually used music from the Beau Hunks CD, which were anachronistic since they were written for the talkies. But I guess you can say that about any silent music score written after a film's initial release.




Burt Lancaster was too short!
- The Birdman of Alcatraz


Offline Tony Bensley

You mean "The Lost Films of" series, whose films were never actually lost? Yes, they took the music from the small handful of L&H silents that had an original Vitaphone disc and re-purposed them for all the others. The European releases of said films usually used music from the Beau Hunks CD, which were anachronistic since they were written for the talkies. But I guess you can say that about any silent music score written after a film's initial release.
Excellent point, though to be fair, most silent music scores are probably less obviously anachronistic than the Beau Hunks CD content, or what we hear on those "Lost Films Of Laurel & Hardy" video releases!

Digressing for a moment, The Flintstones took anachronisms to a whole other satirical level. Their entire universe was anachronistic by nature!

CHEERS!  [3stooges]


Offline NoahYoung

Excellent point, though to be fair, most silent music scores are probably less obviously anachronistic than the Beau Hunks CD content, or what we hear on those "Lost Films Of Laurel & Hardy" video releases!

Digressing for a moment, The Flintstones took anachronisms to a whole other satirical level. Their entire universe was anachronistic by nature!

CHEERS!  [3stooges]

Going by what's been on youtube, the Beau Hunks music was only on those European DVDs put out by Universal. The "Lost" series used the Vitaphone track music -- but there just wasn't enough unique music to spread among all the silents.

If I remember correctly, the "Lost" series was first issued on laserdisc, then VHS, then DVD. I have a few on VHS that I bought retail -- to get BATTLE OF THE CENTURY and DUCK SOUP, which were once considered "lost". I also bought WRONG AGAIN and LIBERTY, even though I had them on 8mm, just to get the Vitaphone tracks since they were originally issued that way in 1929.

The boxes called it "Vitaphone," but I'm not sure how accurate that is -- Vitaphone was used by Warner Brothers. Roach used sound on disc, though, and I did a little research recently to see if other studios actually used branded Vitaphone discs or not. I could not find any definitive info on it. The early Roach talkies say "Victor" on the title cards, which was RCA's label for 78 records.

Early Roach talkies briefly recycled some of the music from the "Vitaphone" discs. Usually only for main title music and perhaps a short scene. The one that comes to mind: the opening scene to THE LAUREL-HARDY MURDER CASE recycles music from WRONG AGAIN. The rest of that talkie has no background music, which accentuates the dullness of it! It's tough to know whether this was on the original release, since sometimes companies like FILM CLASSICS added music that wasn't there to begin with. I'm not, however, talking about late-30s Hal Roach reissues like BRATS and BLOTTO, though, which recycled music from OUR RELATIONS and concurrent Our Gang shorts. Those seem anachronistic even though the music is only about 6 or 7 years newer than the films they accompany.

Big digression: I understand anachronisms, but there is still a gray area on whether something is anachronistic or not. My interpretation is something existing in a film (or book, etc.) that only existed after the timeframe of the story. Like watches worn by cavemen. I've since discovered that the reverse is also considered an anachronism: a film set in the 30s with music from the 20s. I don't really agree with the last example, since I listen to music much older than 10 years ago, so having that as background music or a band playing that music in the film is not necessarily inaccurate, to me.

But where does it end? If I make a movie today set in the 30s, one could say that actor "X" wasn't even alive in the 30s, yet the film shows him in a movie that is set in the 30s. See what I mean?

The stupidest example I've read about is a perceived anachronism in Buster Keaton's THE GENERAL. In a book I have on Keaton, it is stated that movie cameras didn't exist during the Civil War, so the film itself is an anachronism. I kid you not! I mean -- come on!

-----------------------------------

I once read somehwere on the internet an interesting theory about THE FLINTSTONES. It said the series took place after a nuclear holocaust, and the survivors made crude recreations of technology they once had. Interesting theory, but the hole is the fact that they had dinosaurs! And we all know that humans did not walk the earth at the same time as the dinosaurs anyway.

Then there's the whole HONEYMOONERS controversy -- some say THE FLINSTONES was clearly based upon it, and that Jackie Gleason almost sued, but then didn't since he didn't want to be the Grinch that took the beloved show off the air.

I agree there are clear similarities, but one can also say the HONEYMOONERS stole from Laurel and Hardy, especially SONS OF THE DESERT. There was even an episode that stole from BLOTTO, where they get drunk on grape juice. And they did an episode on a berth in a train which seems inspired by BERTH MARKS.

But how original is the concept of having 2 couples where the husbands are best friends, and the wives are best friends? Dozens of sitcoms like that. The husbands try to outsmart the wives, and vice-versa.

That being said, my bet is that THE FLINSTONES was inspired by THE HONEYMOONERS.
Burt Lancaster was too short!
- The Birdman of Alcatraz


Offline Tony Bensley

Going by what's been on youtube, the Beau Hunks music was only on those European DVDs put out by Universal. The "Lost" series used the Vitaphone track music -- but there just wasn't enough unique music to spread among all the silents.

If I remember correctly, the "Lost" series was first issued on laserdisc, then VHS, then DVD. I have a few on VHS that I bought retail -- to get BATTLE OF THE CENTURY and DUCK SOUP, which were once considered "lost". I also bought WRONG AGAIN and LIBERTY, even though I had them on 8mm, just to get the Vitaphone tracks since they were originally issued that way in 1929.

The boxes called it "Vitaphone," but I'm not sure how accurate that is -- Vitaphone was used by Warner Brothers. Roach used sound on disc, though, and I did a little research recently to see if other studios actually used branded Vitaphone discs or not. I could not find any definitive info on it. The early Roach talkies say "Victor" on the title cards, which was RCA's label for 78 records.

Early Roach talkies briefly recycled some of the music from the "Vitaphone" discs. Usually only for main title music and perhaps a short scene. The one that comes to mind: the opening scene to THE LAUREL-HARDY MURDER CASE recycles music from WRONG AGAIN. The rest of that talkie has no background music, which accentuates the dullness of it! It's tough to know whether this was on the original release, since sometimes companies like FILM CLASSICS added music that wasn't there to begin with. I'm not, however, talking about late-30s Hal Roach reissues like BRATS and BLOTTO, though, which recycled music from OUR RELATIONS and concurrent Our Gang shorts. Those seem anachronistic even though the music is only about 6 or 7 years newer than the films they accompany.

Big digression: I understand anachronisms, but there is still a gray area on whether something is anachronistic or not. My interpretation is something existing in a film (or book, etc.) that only existed after the timeframe of the story. Like watches worn by cavemen. I've since discovered that the reverse is also considered an anachronism: a film set in the 30s with music from the 20s. I don't really agree with the last example, since I listen to music much older than 10 years ago, so having that as background music or a band playing that music in the film is not necessarily inaccurate, to me.

But where does it end? If I make a movie today set in the 30s, one could say that actor "X" wasn't even alive in the 30s, yet the film shows him in a movie that is set in the 30s. See what I mean?

The stupidest example I've read about is a perceived anachronism in Buster Keaton's THE GENERAL. In a book I have on Keaton, it is stated that movie cameras didn't exist during the Civil War, so the film itself is an anachronism. I kid you not! I mean -- come on!

-----------------------------------

I once read somehwere on the internet an interesting theory about THE FLINTSTONES. It said the series took place after a nuclear holocaust, and the survivors made crude recreations of technology they once had. Interesting theory, but the hole is the fact that they had dinosaurs! And we all know that humans did not walk the earth at the same time as the dinosaurs anyway.

Then there's the whole HONEYMOONERS controversy -- some say THE FLINSTONES was clearly based upon it, and that Jackie Gleason almost sued, but then didn't since he didn't want to be the Grinch that took the beloved show off the air.

I agree there are clear similarities, but one can also say the HONEYMOONERS stole from Laurel and Hardy, especially SONS OF THE DESERT. There was even an episode that stole from BLOTTO, where they get drunk on grape juice. And they did an episode on a berth in a train which seems inspired by BERTH MARKS.

But how original is the concept of having 2 couples where the husbands are best friends, and the wives are best friends? Dozens of sitcoms like that. The husbands try to outsmart the wives, and vice-versa.

That being said, my bet is that THE FLINSTONES was inspired by THE HONEYMOONERS.
Regarding anachronisms, to me elements from the past can be used in a future setting, but not vice versa, unless time travel is an element in the story line (IE. The Time Machine, and Doctor Who!), in which case the time period setting is fluid, anyway.

Another hole in "The Flintstones" allegedly taking place after a nuclear holocaust is the characters wouldn't be referencing BC times in a current fashion. I still remember in one episode their referencing the movie 1,000,000 B.C. as being about life in the future, LOL! No doubt the series was inspired by "The Honeymooners" which in turn had some elements of Laurel & Hardy. Ollie's "It's funny how we often don't see ourselves as other people see us!" (Or something very close to that!) insight near the end of the long lost Reel 3 of "Laughing Gravy" strangely reminds me of one of Ralph Kramden's brief introspective moments, yet the likelihood of Jackie Gleason having ever viewed that scene (Which was removed after an early preview, and went missing until around 1986!), especially before he did "The Honeymooners," is pretty much zero!

As for Buster Keaton's "The General (1927)" being considered anachronistic due to the use of Cameras in filming it in a Civil War setting, that's just plain nucking futs!!! What kind of magic mushrooms was that dude smoking?

If I correctly recall, I believe "A Victor Recording" was/is the proper way of referencing the original soundtracks used in the late silent era Roach films.

CHEERS!  [3stooges]


Offline NoahYoung


If I correctly recall, I believe "A Victor Recording" was/is the proper way of referencing the original soundtracks used in the late silent era Roach films.

CHEERS!  [3stooges]

Yes, I believe that's the exact wording on the credits on the films themselves.

Those "Lost Films" tapes/DVDs/laserdiscs say "Vitaphone", which started me and others calling them that. "Vitaphone" has become sort of like "Xerox" in that people don't literally mean the brand. There's the "Vitaphone" project that was started over 25 years ago (or more) that rescues previoulsy lost discs -- and I doubt they limit themselves to just Vitaphone/Vitagraph films from Warner Brothers.

BTW, I think I need to get some Kleenex before I go to my Frigidaire to get a soda.
In the meantime, can you Xerox a copy of this for me?
Ouch! I cut myself. Get me a Band-Aid, please.


Burt Lancaster was too short!
- The Birdman of Alcatraz


Offline Tony Bensley

Yes, I believe that's the exact wording on the credits on the films themselves.

Those "Lost Films" tapes/DVDs/laserdiscs say "Vitaphone", which started me and others calling them that. "Vitaphone" has become sort of like "Xerox" in that people don't literally mean the brand. There's the "Vitaphone" project that was started over 25 years ago (or more) that rescues previoulsy lost discs -- and I doubt they limit themselves to just Vitaphone/Vitagraph films from Warner Brothers.

BTW, I think I need to get some Kleenex before I go to my Frigidaire to get a soda.
In the meantime, can you Xerox a copy of this for me?
Ouch! I cut myself. Get me a Band-Aid, please.
LOL! Excellent points!!

CHEERS! :)


Offline metaldams

I have no problem with the original soundtracks in and of themselves and would be fine with them included on the shorts they were originally attached to.  But when watching a 9 or 10 volume set in bulk and having the same random cues start and stop over and over and over and over again on every single film - it drives me crazy.
- Doug Sarnecky


Offline Tony Bensley

I have no problem with the original soundtracks in and of themselves and would be fine with them included on the shorts they were originally attached to.  But when watching a 9 or 10 volume set in bulk and having the same random cues start and stop over and over and over and over again on every single film - it drives me crazy.
I actually hope the original music and effects tracks are included as options for the 1928-29 Laurel & Hardy silents in which they were originally included when Flicker Alley eventually releases them. Apart from that, they get too repetitive!

CHEERS!  [3stooges]


Offline NoahYoung

I have no problem with the original soundtracks in and of themselves and would be fine with them included on the shorts they were originally attached to.  But when watching a 9 or 10 volume set in bulk and having the same random cues start and stop over and over and over and over again on every single film - it drives me crazy.

Same here. 10+ years ago TCM ran a bunch of Our Gang silents, with newly recorded music, but it was the same music for each short.

Solution -- put ur TV on mute!
 :o
Burt Lancaster was too short!
- The Birdman of Alcatraz


Offline NoahYoung

I actually hope the original music and effects tracks are included as options for the 1928-29 Laurel & Hardy silents in which they were originally included when Flicker Alley eventually releases them. Apart from that, they get too repetitive!

CHEERS!  [3stooges]

I'd bet that they would use the original music. It's full orchestra and generally great -- except ANGORA LOVE and BACON GRABBERS is just an organ, albeit with LeRoy Shield playing. But it is none of his great tunes that he would compose a year or 2 later.

Except for the original Victor music, my favorite music for L&H silents is from the Youngson compilations and L&H LAUGHTOONS. Too bad both are excerpts only. Some of the LAUGHTOONS music was issued on CD a few years ago by Ray Faiola -- can be ordered here: http://www.chelsearialtostudios.com/order_direct.htm

Use ur browser search function on that page for "LAUREL AND HARDY LAUGHTOONS".

Burt Lancaster was too short!
- The Birdman of Alcatraz