Soitenly
Moronika
The community forum of ThreeStooges.net

Three Stooges shorts coming to Blu-ray this summer

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline PeteHale

  • Tearer of Tonsils
  • Grapehead
  • *
  • Cartoonist
    • Pete Hale Cartoonist

Offline NoahYoung

I recently bought the DVD set, so I don't see me buying the Blu-Ray. But I am curious how they look in HD.


Nice! Enjoy what you already have! No need to have HD-envy.
 [clap]
Burt Lancaster was too short!
- The Birdman of Alcatraz


Offline Tony Bensley

Nice! Enjoy what you already have! No need to have HD-envy.
 [clap]
I've recently been watching the 3 Stooges shorts not included (Far as we know, LOL!) in the upcoming Blu-ray set on my Acer PC Laptop setup with my 32 inch 720p Toshiba TV attached. Most of the shorts look just fine, although the audio quality somewhat fluctuates, which I probably notice more as I've been using my headphones for most of the shorts. The most recent one I watched today is BEER BARREL POLECATS (1946), which does look rather nice on the Sony DVD set! Doubling my Laptop's RAM from 6 to 12 GB yesterday is also helping the general video playback not look so jerky, LOL!!  :laugh:

CHEERS!  [3stooges]



Offline Hello Larry

This set is a total missed opportunity for Sony. Who knows about the omissions and if they have anything to do with content but why would that matter when you've already established a complete collection on standard DVD years ago?

In addition, the shorts are all available for broadcast (for free) on MeTV / MeTV+ - it is up to the channel if they pull certain titles or cut them down to their 'really short shorts' presentation as is the case with The Yoke's On Me. All 190 are uncut and available on YouTube (for free). If you are an Amazon prime subscriber, you can see them on the Live Three Stooges channel.

So, going with the theory that some have been pulled from this set as a result of questionable content, why would Sony make these accessible for free via these other avenues then 'ban' them for private purchase for someone's home video collection? It doesn't make sense. Throw a disclaimer in there and move forward.

Then again, it is Sony. The same company who, back in the VHS days, released 6 volumes of Stooges shorts with only one new short per tape (the remaining two were previously released in earlier volumes). Yet, I bought them all as I wanted to have whatever was released. Then after a while the print quality of some films got worse with Sony using 16mm prints (Three Smart Saps, Monkey Businessmen, and the worst offender in my memory - Studio Stoops, come to mind. Moving to DVD, we had those colorized collections which were just awful. Then, it's as if a bell went off and they released the whole filmography in chronological order!

Now - this! The set looks cheap. Do we not have a better picture of pre-stroke Curly to adorn the cover art? Plus - this is a picture from Swing Parade of 1946 - it's not even a Columbia release!!! The whole packaging looks like a cheap public domain set. I can do without the sound effects button. I had the Curly talking bottle opener and as the battery started to die, it sounded like Curly after his stroke. Clever marketing although I'm not sure that was the desired effect. Anyway - I digress.

This is yet again another example of Sony not understanding their target demographic for such a release - a demographic who wants the entire filmography, not a filmography that has been hand picked by someone who isn't familiar with it. This could be such a perfect tribute to their legacy and they've screwed it up. Now - Warner and Disney have made their questionable films (the Censored 11 and Song of the South respectively) very public. Yet, I don't recall Sony ever making such a public scene about the content of Three Stooges shorts. Throw a disclaimer in there and move on. I highly doubt the people who watchdog such things are even aware of any of the content in these films.

And speaking of the shorts airing on MeTV / MeTV+, there is an annoying pattern with some shorts where the end title cards have been altered. This mostly occurs with 1930s / early 40s Curly films where it fades out and the end card has been replaced with the end card from the late 40's. In many cases the music is replaced as well so a film like Violent is the Word for Curly fades with the Listen to the Mockingbird theme then it abruptly cuts to Three Blind Mice and the 40s end card (usually with the jazzy theme from Idiots Deluxe). Now I know MeTV has edited the content of some shorts (We Want Our Mummy and Slaphappy Sleuths) but I don't know if the end card edits are unique to the package they broadcast. I can't figure out who would do that and I don't think tv stations have editing bays anymore. The question is - why?  With all of Sony's chicanery over the years, it would not surprise me if these screw ups found their way into the prints on the Blu-ray set as well.



Offline NoahYoung

A few months ago I caught IDLE ROOMERS on MeTV and I'm pretty sure it was edited. I remember years ago seeing the 10 minute version of WE WANT OUR MUMMY on one of the free cable channels. I assume it was the same as the Super 8 and 8mm release from Columbia from the 70s, which for some reason was only around 10 minutes. At the time, I didn't have the Super 8 print -- now I do. I think I might have recorded it on tape from TV back in the 90s. It would be interesting to compare.

Is every short still on youtube? I thought they were gradually disappearing. Recently I was looking for one (I forgot which) and all I could find were brief clips.

I didn't know they used 16mm prints for some shorts on VHS (never saw them). Quality would depend on whether or not it was an "original" print or a dupe. I have a handful in 16mm, and projected on a 5 foot wide screen they look the same as HD -- perhaps better. (I prefer film.) So they either used dupes or the transfer work from 16mm was poor.

Burt Lancaster was too short!
- The Birdman of Alcatraz


Offline NoahYoung

Music for home use had the same evolution, tho spaced out over a much longer time span. First came piano rolls assuming you could afford a VERY expensive player piano. Then wax cylinders, which were plentiful, but you had to buy a player. Both can be purchased at antique shops today. Then came 78 rpm’s which required a whole new playing apparatus. 78’s were the standard for decades, but were quickly eclipsed by 45’s, LP’s, 8-track and cassette tapes, then CD’s. Now it’s all downloadable. What’s a music lover to do?

I collect LPs, CDs, and FLAC files. On one hand, I'm delighted that vinyl has made a strong comeback, but the consequence is that it has driven the price up of vintage LPs.

I never got hoodwinked into SACDs. I still have some cassettes, which I used to collect in the 80s. I never did 8-track.

I like vintage LPs more for the mastering rather than the format, although I do enjoy handling records and putting them on a turntable. For vintage music, it's ironic that the earliest CD issues are usually the best. Why? They didn't have the newer technology to mess them up! [pie] When a CD says "remastered", run the other way!

Way off topic: we call LPs analog, which is correct. But with film, the term "analog" is really incorrect. In fact, film is more akin to digital music. Let me explain.

Take CDs, for instance. The music is sampled at distinct intervals -- a 44.1kHz sample rate, which means that every second, 44,100 samples were taken.

Now for film: the sample rate is a mere 24 samples per second. That's it. It's not analog at all!

So digital representations of film should be really, really good. For HD, say, you only need 24 scans of 1080x1920 pixels per second. But then we get into the math of the frequency of electricity, which is either 50Hz or 60Hz. So this is where things get complicated. And 24fps becomes 23.976fps for video (in the U.S.) And sometimes 29.97. It gets complicated, and if you Google it you will get a million explanations, all pretty much the same.

I'm not debating that HD or SD is really good. I just think that there are so many other variables to consider, not the least of which the quality of your TV. And how many different settings it has. And how you adjust the settings. So what it really comes down to is apples vs oranges when one person says this blu-ray is great, and the other says it sucks. Even if they both own the exact same TV -- make and model. One person may have the settings configured differently.

You can spend hours, days, weeks, trying to get the settings right. I usually just pick a pre-set on my TV, and maybe tweak one or two settings in the pre-set, and save it to a custom setting. The problem with my particular TV (LG) is that it stores an entirely different group of setting for each input on the TV. So I may get it set up OK for cable, but then I have to set it up again for streaming, and again for a DVD or Blu-ray player. And it doesn't allow you to copy a setting from input to input. So you need to write the settings down on a piece of payer and manually set it up for each input. Geesh! And the thing is, it took me a while to figure out that it wasn't sharing the setting among inputs. It wasn't obvious, other than wondering why the picture suddenly didn't look right. And oh yea, my old DVD player has settings you can tweak too. Good luck, Charlie!

Even with all those variables that you actually have control over, if they messed up the video transfer, they messed up the video transfer!

With B&W films especially, like the Stooges, you really need to have the black and white balance and contrast adjusted spot on. When done properly, B&W films have a depth to them that I feel you can never get with color. And that, my friends, is why I feel that there is no substitute for viewing movies, that were shot on film, as projected film, with the film running through a projector. It really comes across with vintage B&W movies -- almost 3D-like. To me the old IB Technicolor had a similar effect, but it's been about 50 years since that system was retired, even in theaters -- so not sure how many people here remember seeing an IB Tech print projected in a theater.

The moral of the story -- if you're happy with your Stooges DVDs, enjoy them. My prediction is that the reviews of the blu-ray will be like the Laurel and Hardy Definitive Restorations -- "they removed the grain!", "the images look waxy", "they sharpened the edges", "they cropped the image wrong", etc. They've already dropped the ball by dropping shorts from the set -- so what else will the mess up?   >:D

Then again, maybe it will turn out great! Only one way to really find out, but I'll find out by reading the reviews just out of curiosity.
Burt Lancaster was too short!
- The Birdman of Alcatraz


Offline PeteHale

  • Tearer of Tonsils
  • Grapehead
  • *
  • Cartoonist
    • Pete Hale Cartoonist
As mad as some people are about certain, they should be grateful Sony doesn't censor the shorts. I collect cartoon DVDs and its a pain from Warners in how they handle both their own cartoons and MGM's. Disney did well with is Treasures, though.


Offline NoahYoung

I have a theory, but it has a hole in it because they are including all the Joe DeRita features owned by Sony. Why they would do this and leave out 90 shorts is still a mystery.

Anyway, just conjecture...but consider this:

Sony determines that there is demand for the Stooges on blu-ray. Perhaps they did some marketing survey. The hard work is the 2K scans - - which are already done. This is an opportunity to generate revenue with a project that has relatively little cost.

Now the analytics people crunch the numbers. They figure out how many of these sets they will sell. The stuffed shirts tell the analytics group that they want it to generate X dollars. The analytics people crunch numbers again, since they still must determine what the costs are to author and produce the blu-ray sets. For example, the cost to do 50 shorts is less than 100 shorts, which is less than all 190. (Let's forget the other films they are including for simplicity.)

The magic number is 100 shorts. So they go with that. How do they they pick the 100 they will include -- I don't know.

Perhaps it is as simple as that.

----------------------------------------------

Now if you really need to own HD version of these films although you already have the complete DVDs, that's fine.

I grew up watching these and other classics (and all other TV shows and movies) on broadcast TV, not cable. The TV screens were small compared to the average one now. Reception of the TV was hit or miss, depending on the channel. My Dad optimized the position of the antenna on our roof to get the best reception on most channels, but several channels still came in bad. The Stooges and Abbott and Costello were shown on WPIX in NYC, and our reception for this channel was among the best of all the channels. But it was still broadcast TV.

With today's TV screens, and a DVD player, there is a world of difference in picture quality than what I grew up with. HD is nice for cable and streaming, but at the end of the day, I don't need no stinkin' blu-ray player.  :D

Now take the Stooges shorts. When these were released to theaters, viewers saw 4th generation prints. Camera neg->fine grain->dupe neg-> release print.

For the DVDs and blu-rays, you are most likely seeing scans of an earlier generation. I believe they can scan camera negs and turn them into positives with software. The producers of these films knew that these 4th generation release prints wouldn't reveal some of the secrets to some special effects -- like perhaps a wire attached to Curly to lift him in the air. Or a matte background. Or rear-projection (unless it was done really badly.) So although you will get first-class clarity with HD, you may be seeing the shorts not as they were intended to be shown. And you may see a boom mic or other equipment if they scanned the entire frame, which would have been masked by the projectors gate in the theaters in the 30s, 40s, and 50s. And then everyone and his brother will write in social media and IMDB about these "goofs".

And let's face it -- who is watching Stooges shorts for the cinematography? NORTH BY NORTHWEST might benefit from HD -- actually it does, I'll give you that much.

Just sayin'...


Burt Lancaster was too short!
- The Birdman of Alcatraz