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A Gripe about the Curly-Shemp Wars

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Offline Paul Pain

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I love seeing that so many people, even younger folks, still love the boys.  Last Saturday, March 30, WOMAN HATERS completed filming 90 years ago, and almost one month from today is the 90th anniversary of the short's release.

It makes me sad, though, to go anywhere on the internet, whether social media or just websites in general, and see a person say they "only like Curly" or "only like Shemp" to the extent that they won't watch shorts with the other one in it.  It's offensive to my sensibilities because...

These people are throwing Moe and Larry under the bus with a vengeance.  If you cannot see that Shemp, in his own way, works with Moe and Larry just as well as their baby brother, then you don't really like The Three Stooges but just like one actor.  Moe and Larry deserve better because they were amazing in their own ways.  Shame on you folks .

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Offline Dunrobin

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When I was a kid my favorite Stooge was Curly.  Later Shemp became my favorite, then as an adult I found myself appreciating Moe a lot more, and then in middle age I started paying more attention to Larry and realized how important he was to the team.  Eventually, after the DVD set came out, I started liking Joe Besser more, even though the shorts he was in weren't as good as they were in the Stooges heyday (not his fault.)  Likewise, I eventually came to appreciate Joe DeRita for helping the Stooges carry on in the 60s.

So these days I don't really have a "favorite Stooge"; it's the team working together that I love, regardless of which configuration of Stooges it might be.


Offline metaldams

I’m with you guys.  The older I get, the less interested I am in comparing things and just enjoying things for what they are, be it Stooges, silent comedians, rock musicians, etc.

I literally don’t think I had a thought comparing Curly and Shemp in years, they’re just both ingrained in me by now.
- Doug Sarnecky


Offline J_Kasumi

As someone who has been a Stoogie for far too long, I have never had a problem with either Shemp or Curly. Granted, I'm not the biggest Joe Besser fan. But, that's besides the point. I have always enjoyed Curly a bit more than Shemp, but, that's not to say Shemp stinks. Far from it, he's talented in his own right, and like I said on a Discord server I'm in, he's underrated as a Stooge. Shemp had his fair share of hits and misses, just like Curly. I don't agree with one being better than the other. Each Stooge is unique in their own right. We can have our personal preferences, and that's fine with me. Where I get salty is one says one is better than the other and then insult you for not liking which Stooge they like. We're all human, and we should be able to like who we like, without it devolving into a war about who is better, in my personal opinion.
A railfan, Trekkie, Stoogie, among too many other interests to list here.


Offline Paul Pain

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As someone who has been a Stoogie for far too long, I have never had a problem with either Shemp or Curly. Granted, I'm not the biggest Joe Besser fan. But, that's besides the point. I have always enjoyed Curly a bit more than Shemp, but, that's not to say Shemp stinks. Far from it, he's talented in his own right, and like I said on a Discord server I'm in, he's underrated as a Stooge. Shemp had his fair share of hits and misses, just like Curly. I don't agree with one being better than the other. Each Stooge is unique in their own right. We can have our personal preferences, and that's fine with me. Where I get salty is one says one is better than the other and then insult you for not liking which Stooge they like. We're all human, and we should be able to like who we like, without it devolving into a war about who is better, in my personal opinion.

Is this a Stooge themed Discord server by any chance?
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Offline J_Kasumi

I am a member of The Three Stooges Fan Server, Paul. Only Stooge related server I've ever found.
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Offline QuinceHead

While it’s self-evident that Shemp’s style of Stooging (Stoogery?) is not the same as Curly’s, it’s also true that pre-stroke(s) Curly’s Stoogery is noticeably different than post-stroke(s) Curly’s.  Each has their strengths and weaknesses.  Curly also benefitted from the newness/freshness of the scripts, characterizations and so on; by the time Shemp arrived on the scene, all these factors had long since lost their bloom.

Shemp has a similar “cut-off” point when the Stooges’ shorts budget got slashed by Columbia suits, and “new” shorts from that point onwards had up to 50% recycled footage from old shorts patched into them.

(I’m not sure if it’s 100% true, but I’ve heard/read that Shemp’s mild stroke in 1952 may have also been a factor in so much recycled footage being crammed into the shorts?)


Offline QuinceHead

Another point — not eye-poke! — I meant to make yesterday is how the arrival of a new Stooge resulted in a breath of fresh air to routines that had become, well, routine and formulaic.

Shemp coming into the fold brought a new dynamic because he and his comedic shtick were so noticeably different to Curly’s.  (I firmly believe that Curly’s comedic talents were innate, and while he learned his craft onstage in vaudeville, he wasn’t “drawn” to the stage in the same way that Moe and Shemp were.  Shemp spent many years in vaudeville and then in movies honing his gifts before Moe asked him to rejoin the Stooges; what was supposed to be a temporary gig, lasted him the rest of his life.)  Shemp trying to do Curly’s shtick wouldn’t have worked, and likewise Curly never tried to copy Shemp’s mannerisms after he replaced his older brother in vaudeville.

Unfortunately, budget cuts at Columbia meant that less and less original material was filmed for their shorts; sometimes upwards of half a “new” short consisted of recycled footage from one or more previous shorts.  Not only did it feel like you’d already seen these shorts before — you partly had!!  (And the less said about the four “fake Shemp” shorts, the better!)

So Moe having to find a third Third Stooge, at least meant Jules White had to cut back on reusing footage of previous years. And once again, the Third Stooge dynamic was more different than it had been in years, so at least it was another breath of fresh air.

But as we all know, opinion has been (and probably always will be) sharply divided on whether or not Joe Besser was the best choice for the Third Stooge. On paper, he was a great fit, with years of comedic experience and a popular character in the form of spoiled brat Stinky opposite Lou Costello.  In practice, though… Joe’s whiny, fussy man-child (I hate the word “sissy” and refuse to use it, no matter how fitting it is here), along with Besser’s initial reluctance to be on the receiving end of slaps, eye pokes and other indignities, alienated him from many fans.  But there’s no denying that by this point, the Stooges needed a shakeup, and boy, they got it!

For duty and humanity,
JohnH aka QuinceHead


Offline J_Kasumi

@QuinceHead: Agreed, John. Shemp gave it his own unique flavor to the shorts. The budget cuts indeed hampered what they could do, but, given the nature short subjects were falling out of favor is hardly surprising. The fact they kept going despite an obvious decline warms my heart that they were willing to still do something despite it being in decline in favor of television. Again, while I'm not the biggest Besser fan, I will always respect him for keeping the trio going. He's not my favorite Stooge, but, I will always have tremendous respect for him keeping the act going when Moe and Larry needed a third Stooge.
A railfan, Trekkie, Stoogie, among too many other interests to list here.


Offline NoahYoung

Eventually, after the DVD set came out, I started liking Joe Besser more, even though the shorts he was in weren't as good as they were in the Stooges heyday (not his fault.)

I assume you mean "more than you had before", and not "more than Shemp and Curly."

TBH, I'm not sure I've seen all the Bessers, although I have them all. I've never really thought any of the Bessers were very good, but they're still better than any episode of FRIENDS, IMO.

Besser could be funny in the A&C Show (first season) and AFRICA SCREAMS, but frankly, in the former, he can get tiresome after awhile. He wasn't in every episode, and his screen time was limited, but when he shows up, I always think to myself, "He's kinda funny, but I rather see more of Costello interacting with Abbott or Mr. Fields."

In that TV movie from 2000, the biopic that will be on the new blu-ray set, they portray Besser as quitting the Stooges because he didn't want to get hit by a pie, or something like that. Not sure how true that was. (I doubt it.)

It was good that Joe DeRita allowed Moe and Curly to make some more moolah, but frankly, there's nothing to recommend about those features. I think there's only one or two I was able to sit through from beginning to end, and it was an endurance test. On Wikipedia, there's a quote from DeRita that he didn't think the Stooges were funny, and liked Laurel and Hardy a lot more! Talk about biting the hand that fed you!

I'd say I like Shemp shorts and Curly shorts equally when they're at their best. Curly made 20 more shorts, and there's probably more great Curlys than Shemps overall, but it is not fair to Shemp to allow me to say Curly was therefore better. As has been pointed out, the fact that some Shemp shorts may not be top tier is not Shemp's fault at all.





« Last Edit: July 20, 2024, 09:20:27 PM by NoahYoung »
Burt Lancaster was too short!
- The Birdman of Alcatraz


Offline Dunrobin

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I assume you mean "more than you had before", and not "more than Shemp and Curly."

Yes, that's exactly what I meant.  I could have worded that a little better.  lol


Offline NoahYoung

Yes, that's exactly what I meant.  I could have worded that a little better.  lol

Np, but I did a double-take when I first read it.

If Joe Besser was your fav Stooge, you'd be in a one-member club.
 [pie]
Burt Lancaster was too short!
- The Birdman of Alcatraz