Topic: The unwanted effects of stretch-printing in THE CHAPLIN REVUE

[NoahYoung]

This is what I mentioned in another thread about THE CHAPLIN REVUE being stretch-printed. Too bad the youtube video is blocked (at least in the U.S.)

https://www.silentfilmmusic.com/lsf45-chaplin-out-of-character/

[Dr. Mabuse]

Chaplin sabotaged his own films when he stretch-printed "A Dog's Life," "Shoulder Arms," "The Idle Class" and "The Pilgrim." I'm not crazy about his music scores, either. At least I have the "First National Collection" DVD. 

[metaldams]

Chaplin sabotaged his own films when he stretch-printed "A Dog's Life," "Shoulder Arms," "The Idle Class" and "The Pilgrim." I'm not crazy about his music scores, either. At least I have the "First National Collection" DVD.

I have the same collection.  Every Chaplin film from First National through A KING IN NEW YORK I still have those Image DVD’s I bought back in the day with the exception of THE GOLD RUSH, where I have the Warner Brothers release in order to get the silent version.

I once saw THE PILGRIM in a college film class almost twenty years ago and it was The Chaplin Revue version.  I did notice the difference.  To this day, I have not seen the other Chaplin Revue versions.

Ben Model is one of the hosts on The Silent Comedy Watch Party on YouTube (highly recommended) and he’s the resident expert on film speeds.  That and the scores are passions of his.

[NoahYoung]

I have the following Image DVDs:
FIRST NATIONAL COLLECTION
KID AND A DOG'S LIFE
CITY LIGHTS
MODERN TIMES
THE CIRCUS

I only have one volume of the Warner Bros./mK2:
THE GOLD RUSH
MODERN TIMES
LIMELIGHT
THE GREAT DICTATOR

On VHS from CBS/FOX/Key Video:
THE KID AND THE IDLE CLASS
THE CHAPLIN REVUE

Kino VHS:
6 Volumes: Volume 1 has some Keystones. Vols 2 and 3 has some Essanays. Vols 4,5,6 have all 12 Mutuals, but with the Mortilla synthesized scores -- yuck.
TILLIE'S PUNCTURE ROMANCE AND MABEL'S MARRIED LIFE

Grapevine DVD:
THE CHAPLIN MUTUALS - all 12 copied from David Shepard's original laser disc release, which itself was transferred (at 24fps) from his original Blackhawk 16mm restorations from 1975. The quality is excellent and has the Van Buren scores. I prefer these versions to the latest Flicker Alley DVDs.

I have The Keystones, The Essanays, and The Mutuals from Flicker Alley.

I won't bore you with what I have on 8mm and Super 8, but I do have all the 1975 Shepard restorations of the Mutuals, but only 2 with soundtracks.

[Dr. Mabuse]

Ben Model is one of the hosts on The Silent Comedy Watch Party on YouTube (highly recommended) and he’s the resident expert on film speeds. That and the scores are passions of his.

Except for Neil Brand's piano score on the silent version of Warner's "The Gold Rush," the Chaplin estate has not allowed alternative scores on the 1918-1928 films, which is a damn shame. It would be great if Ben Model, Robert Israel and Carl Davis (among other silent-film composers) had a crack at those Chaplin-owned films.

[metaldams]

Except for Neil Brand's piano score on the silent version of Warner's "The Gold Rush," the Chaplin estate has not allowed alternative scores on the 1918-1928 films, which is a damn shame. It would be great if Ben Model, Robert Israel and Carl Davis (among other silent-film composers) had a crack at those Chaplin-owned films.

I’m bound for Texas!  Bound for Texas……..

[metaldams]

I have the following Image DVDs:
FIRST NATIONAL COLLECTION
KID AND A DOG'S LIFE
CITY LIGHTS
MODERN TIMES
THE CIRCUS

I only have one volume of the Warner Bros./mK2:
THE GOLD RUSH
MODERN TIMES
LIMELIGHT
THE GREAT DICTATOR

On VHS from CBS/FOX/Key Video:
THE KID AND THE IDLE CLASS
THE CHAPLIN REVUE

Kino VHS:
6 Volumes: Volume 1 has some Keystones. Vols 2 and 3 has some Essanays. Vols 4,5,6 have all 12 Mutuals, but with the Mortilla synthesized scores -- yuck.
TILLIE'S PUNCTURE ROMANCE AND MABEL'S MARRIED LIFE

Grapevine DVD:
THE CHAPLIN MUTUALS - all 12 copied from David Shepard's original laser disc release, which itself was transferred (at 24fps) from his original Blackhawk 16mm restorations from 1975. The quality is excellent and has the Van Buren scores. I prefer these versions to the latest Flicker Alley DVDs.

I have The Keystones, The Essanays, and The Mutuals from Flicker Alley.

I won't bore you with what I have on 8mm and Super 8, but I do have all the 1975 Shepard restorations of the Mutuals, but only 2 with soundtracks.

I’m Image DVD from First National through A KING IN NEW YORK. The latest Flicker Alley releases for anything before, which replaced  in my collection the (I think) Image, maybe Kino collections of Mutual and Essanay.  Can’t remember which.  I used to have a 4 volume Grapevine Video VHS collection of the Keystones, but the Flicker Alley release is 1,000 times superior in every way.

I’m going to have to look up those old Kino VHS’s you referred to for the shorts.  Sounds interesting.

[NoahYoung]

Don't bother -- they suck eggs. Despite what the box says, the Mutals do not have the Vam Buren soundtracks. I was majorly PO'd  at the time -- I should have returned them to the store. The Keystone and Essanays have "bad jazz" soundtracks, with music repeated both on a short and across shorts ad infinitum. I turned the sound off.







For the First Nationals, they were additionally sabotaged since Totheroh used the C and D negatives for some (perhaps all) when Chaplin reissued them. I know that for THE CHAPLIN REVUE, the C and D negs were used for SHOULDER ARMS. This was mostly because they were in better shape and I think (without looking it up again) that's all Totheroh had.

A year or 2 ago I found what I believe to be the version using the A and B negs on youtube, probably issued by Pathe in the early 20s.  Doing a side-by-side comparison, they were very different. A and B had the preferred takes, but each shot from a different camera.  C and D were the second best takes. They always had 2 cameras running side-by-side. Keaton did the same, and there are 2 different versions of STEAMBOAT BILL, JR. out there.

I can't find that version of SHOULDER ARMS right now on youtube, but it is available on DVD.   Since the original version is PD, I can admit I downloaded it and have it! 

http://reelclassicdvd.com/silent_era.htm
Scroll down or search to find.

SHOULDER ARMS (1918) was Charlie Chaplin's three-reel gift to survivors of The Great War. The comedy was released to great acclaim and success shortly before Armistice and provided very welcome laughter, particularly to returning soldiers. Charlie plays a lowly private who finds himself in the trenches of France, where living conditions are hilariously horrendous. Some of the many highlights include Charlie trying to sleep in flooded quarters, spying as a tree (!) behind enemy lines and posing as a German officer in disguise. The edition presented here is the Pathe reissue from the early 20s and is markedly different (and arguably superior) in takes, camera angles and performances than the later reconstituted version presented in 1959's THE CHAPLIN REVUE.

[metaldams]

Those say 1984 as copyright.  Very early VHS, thanks for sharing. 

I believe the Lobster version of THREE AGES that’s on blu ray is also alternative footage than what I presently have (the Kino DVD).  You’re right about these multiple cameras.  My understanding is they would make different prints for different continents a lot of the time.

[NoahYoung]

You're welcome.

I actually bought them new in a video store in the early 90s. They were definitely not old stock. I think they were too lazy to reprint the covers. It says 1993 on the tapes inside -- including saying Michael Mortilla did the scores for the Mutuals.

Actually, 1984 isn't that early. The VCRs came out around 1976-1977. The film catalogs already were selling movies in Beta and VHS back then,  including Blackhawk, who sold both their own tapes as well as from the major studios.