Soitenly
Moronika
The community forum of ThreeStooges.net

Does anyone collect The Three Stooges on film: 8mm, Super 8, or 16mm?

NoahYoung · 28 · 10171

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline NoahYoung

I hope there are other collectors of film here. I don't expect to have all 190 on film any time soon (and I don't think I would want that anyway), but it is another valid way to collect their movies.

A company called Excel used to release 2 to 3 minute silent extracts in 16mm for home use. Not sure the exact years, but probably starting sometime in the 40's, ending probably in the 50s. I have never viewed a print.

Columbia first starting releasing 50 foot (about 2.5 minutes) and 200 foot (about 10 minutes) silent editions circa the 60s. In the 70s, they started releasing uncut sound versions in Super 8. These uncut prints projected like 16mm originals and approached 35mm quality. Viewed today, to me they are the equivalent of HD. The earlier silent prints I mentioned didn't come close to these. These uncut editions were far better in picture quality than the Blackhawk Films releases of other comedies, such as Laurel and Hardy, and Our Gang.

Funnily enough, they released WE WANT OUR MUMMY and STUDIO STOOPS in sound editions, but cut to 200 feet. This was before the Super 8 uncut editions, and the quality was akin to the silent editions -- not close to the uncut ones. And for reasons only known to the Columbia execs, they never released uncut versions of the aforementioned 2 films, nor most of the silent ones. In some cases, they released the Shemp "remakes' instead of the originals (e.g. CREEPS, and HOT STUFF), and questionably never released A PLUMBING WE WILL GO, YOU NAZTY SPY, and I'LL NEVER HEIL AGAIN in any edition. Although they did release some of the undisputed classics, I sometimes think they just threw darts at a list of all 190 and just released those. (Although mercifully, no Joe Bessers were released.) I would need to look it up on my film boxes and old catalogs to be sure, but I believe there were perhaps 20 uncut editions, and about 10 silent edited editions.

The Public Domain shorts were not released to the home collector by Columbia, but by other companies, and the only ones I have seen for sale are DISORDER IN THE COURT and SING A SONG OF SIX PANTS, but there might have been others. Various companies released these, including Niles Films for DISORDER (and I have heard by other companies, too), and Red Fox Films for SIX PANTS.

And of course, I believe all 190 are available on 16mm. There must be 100s or even 1000s of prints out there of each title that were distributed to TV stations. I am not sure if all were shown on TV back in the day -- I'm curious about WOMAN HATERS since I never remember seeing it until the cable TV days, long after 16mm prints were used.
Burt Lancaster was too short!
- The Birdman of Alcatraz


Offline HomokHarcos

I'm actually surprised there was a prominent home video market for Three Stooges film released. I assumed the only way for the average person to watch The Three Stooges before VHS and DVDs would have been from TV airings. Were these sold publicly at stores or did you have to go digging deep to discover these?


Offline metaldams

There were home markets for film going back to the twenties or maybe even earlier.  I have a couple of DVD’s of silent comedy shorts called ACCIDENTALLY PRESERVED.  The only reason why these films exist is because multiple copies were put out on the home market, hence the title.

KOOK’S TOUR existed on this market early on, much to Moe’s dismay.
- Doug Sarnecky


Offline metaldams

Is there a list of these actual 16mm, 8mm, etc. film releases on www.threestooges.net?  I had trouble locating one and if there isn’t, it would make a great addition.
- Doug Sarnecky


Offline NoahYoung

I will attempt to remedy that right now in this thread, to the best of my knowledge.

I edited the post above since they did release VAGABOND LOAFER, not SCHEMING SCHEMERS.

I don't have a list of the Excel releases, but many are available on eBay. They often, perhaps always, were re-titled.

The silent 200 footers were released in Standard 8mm and Super 8. The uncut editions were released in Super 8 sound only.

First, some samples from my collection. I am showing all the 200 footers I have, since they had title-specific boxes. (I don't have the other ones that were released.) The uncut editions in sound sometimes had title-specific boxes, sometimes generic Three Stooges boxes (sometimes a Shemp would be in a Curly box, and vice-versa), and sometimes generic Comedy Classics boxes. I have showed the back of the box that showed the Stooges releases at the time for the uncut versions. I have never seen a box that listed the later releases.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/kFwXUncu9pFgNC18A

*I have a print.

Uncut Editions, released by Columbia:
------------------------------------------------------------
LOVE AT FIRST BITE
*THREE SAPPY PEOPLE
*THREE PESTS IN A MESS
*HOT STUFF
*CREEPS
*PARDON MY CLUTCH
*IN THE SWEET PIE & PIE
*HULA LA LA
*MEN IN BLACK
*DUTIFUL BUT DUMB
*TASSELS IN THE AIR
*AN ACHE IN EVERY STAKE
VAGABOND LOAFER
THREE DARK HORSES
*POP GOES THE EASEL
*UNCIVIL WARRIORS
*PARDON MY SCOTCH
*HOI POLLOI
*THREE LITTLE BEERS
*THREE MISSING LINKS
*CALLING ALL CURS
*DIZZY PILOTS
*MICRO-PHONIES
WOMAN HATERS
A BIRD IN THE HEAD

One company, probably in the U.K., released PARDON MY BACKFIRE in 3D as late as the 90s.
I have heard rumors that OILY TO BED AND EARLY TO RISE and VIOLENT IS THE WORD FOR CURLY were bootleg releases.

PD released by various companies:
------------------------------------------------------
*DISORDER IN THE COURT
SING A SONG OF SIX PANTS

The other 2 PD titles might have been released, but I have seen no evidence.

Edited 200 foot editions, silent except where indicated.
(To the best of my knowledge, each was also available in a 50 foot silent edition, which would run 2.5 minutes at 24fps, though most people who bought these probably had silent projectors that only played up to 18fps -- so that would be about 3.5 minutes.)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*SPOOKS
*MALICE IN THE PALACE
*WE WANT OUR MUMMY (Silent and Sound)
*DIZZY DOCTORS
*DOPEY DICKS
*HOLD THAT LION
*STUDIO STOOPS (Silent and Sound)
WHOOPS, I'M AN INDIAN
THREE LITTLE PIGSKINS
PARDON MY SCOTCH (also released in an uncut sound edition, as listed above)
ANTS IN THE PANTRY
GRIPS, GRUNTS, AND GROANS
GOOFS AND SADDLES
CASH AND CARRY
IDLE ROOMERS

Note: Another glaring omission is WHO DONE IT?

THE GOLD RAIDERS was released in a 200 foot silent edition by A.A.P./United Artists/Ken Films,  and perhaps in a 50 foot edition.
Walton Films in the U.K. released it in a slightly abridged edition in sound, as STOOGES GO WEST. They also released a 200 foot edition in both silent and sound.

As mentioned above, KOOK'S TOUR was also released, in both a 400 foot and full-length version. Niles Film Products released it in 1975, the same year that Moe passed away.

Americom Films (eventually bought by Columbia) released a 200 foot B&W version of SNOW WHITE AND THE THREE STOOGES, silent, but with a soundtrack record that you could play on your turntable. They still had sub-titles on screen for dialog. They released many films in this fashion, including many extracts from 3 Laurel and Hardy Fox films. The records were very flimsy -- you could actually fold them and they didn't tear, but of course a crease remained. You needed to place them on a real vinyl record to be able to play them properly. They were recorded to sync with projectors playing the film as 18fps. They pitch-corrected the sound so the voices sounded somewhat natural, despite the actors speaking a bit slower.

To answer HomokHarcos's question, the easiest way to obtains prints was via mail order. Blackhawk Films offered many, but not all, of the Columbia releases through their catalog. I have never seen a Columbia catalog, but perhaps you could order directly from them.
Department stores definitely carried Castle Films releases, but of course they never had the rights to any of the Stooges films. I don't recall them selling any Three Stooges, but some stores may have carried them -- probably only the silent editions.

I didn't obtain any Stooges on a film as a kid, but occasionally my parents would take me to Manhattan to a store called Willoughby's,
about a block or 2 away from Macy's, that had a huge selection of films, including Blackhawks. I assume they had Stooges, too. They also had a catalog called Willoughy-Peerless/Select Film Library that listed practically every distributor's releases, and you could order from that as well. At least once while I was in the store, a film I wanted was out-of-stock, so we paid for it and they had it shipped to our house.

There were also other specialty stores in Manhattan that carried a much, much smaller collection of films. Most, including Willoughby's, sold projectors a well.

In terms of 16mm, as I said above in a previous post, I would expect that all the shorts are available, with the possible exception of WOMAN HATERS, since I don't recall seeing that on pre-cable broadcast TV. Many stations in the 70s and 80s usually edited out the eye-pokes, head bashing, face slaps, and other violent slapstick schtick that we all know and love. So if you are buying one, ask how complete the print is. The Excel 16mm silent prints were re-titled, very short extracts.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2022, 08:40:35 AM by NoahYoung »
Burt Lancaster was too short!
- The Birdman of Alcatraz


Offline metaldams

Thanks.for all the info, that really is all fascinating.  I blew up the picture with all the other films available in the series - I doubt some of these shorts have been commercially available since!

- Doug Sarnecky


Offline NoahYoung

Thanks -- I clicked the attachment link but there was no option to upload a pic. I see now that there is an icon above to link to an image.

I edited the above post to say that Niles released KOOK'S TOUR in 1975. Found the info on Wikipedia. Despite the blurb on the box, it was not their funniest film -- though I have only seen clips from it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kook%27s_Tour

Wikipedia, btw, is the best thing ever. Anyone, in the world, can write anything they want about any subject, so you know you are getting the best possible information.  :)



I will add another pic of a generic Super 8 Stooges box -- which I believe was the last generic one they used.
I have all the Charley Chase Columbia shorts listed on that box you linked to -- pretty much all the others came out on DVD, though I have never viewed them -- I'm not sure if they all have survived. All of Keaton's Columbia shorts have been released on DVD as well.
As more films were released, the back of that box was never updated -- most of the Stooges films I have not listed on that box just have a blank back of the box. I don't know if any other non-Stooge shorts were later released by Columbia. If they were, I have never seen them listed for sale anywhere, and I have been keeping an eye on eBay for over 20 years, and before that via printed lists of used films in various film collector publications. Not that I have wanted to buy all of them. I think it is interesting that for the Charley Chase and Buster Keatons, these were the shorts particularly called out by Leonard Maltin in his book, 'The Great Movie Shorts."

I also have 2 Andy Clydes: GETS SPRING CHICKEN, and IT ALWAY HAPPENS.
I also have SCREEN SNAPSHOTS: MEMORIES OF FAMOUS HOLLYWOOD COMEDIANS (which is basically newsreel type footage of comedians off-screen -- no clips from their films are shown), and THE PEST FROM THE WEST with Buster Keaton.
Burt Lancaster was too short!
- The Birdman of Alcatraz


Offline NoahYoung





Not sure if google expires the links that allow you to view on other websites, but I have reposted here and in other threads where the pics mysteriously disappeared.
Burt Lancaster was too short!
- The Birdman of Alcatraz


Offline NoahYoung

I don't have this, but here is SNOW WHITE AND THE THREE STOOGES with the soundtrack record:




I don't have these boxes, but they are film specific:







Despite what it says on the box, these obviously aren't condensed features.
Burt Lancaster was too short!
- The Birdman of Alcatraz


Offline metaldams

I don't have this, but here is SNOW WHITE AND THE THREE STOOGES with the soundtrack record:







I don't have these boxes, but they are film specific:





Despite what it says on the box, these obviously aren't condensed features.

When you do a Google search, try going to the actual website versus the Google search engine.  I notice pics tend to link better.

Also, if you’re doing records, www.discogs.com pics seem to work well on this site.
- Doug Sarnecky


Offline NoahYoung

Strange, the pics were showing yesterday. I uploaded the pics to my google photos account, same as the previous ones. They are in the same album which I gave public rights to. I will look into it later.

I edited the above post to just have links to my photo account, generated via "create link" in google. I don't remember how I got the previous ones to display -- maybe you have to create the link first, open it, then open image in another tab and use that url. Maybe that's what I did before -- I don't remember.
Burt Lancaster was too short!
- The Birdman of Alcatraz


Offline NoahYoung

OK I fixed the links for the pics so they display.
Burt Lancaster was too short!
- The Birdman of Alcatraz


Offline Mark The Shark

I have "Men In Black" and "In The Sweet Pie And Pie" in Super 8 sound. One thing I observed is, Columbia added a "for home exhbition only" title (superimposed over the torch lady) which appears at the end of each short accompanied by the original end title audio -- and then, the original end title appears mute -- well, not exactly mute, it's accompanied with end-of-reel static.

I remember reading in the Three Stooges Journal in the early 1980s that Niles (IIRC) was offering the four public domain shorts. And also per the Journal in the mid-1970s, Columbia apparently did release other comedy shorts in Super 8 with people like Buster Keaton and Charley Chase. But I don't know which specific films.


Offline NoahYoung

I have "Men In Black" and "In The Sweet Pie And Pie" in Super 8 sound. One thing I observed is, Columbia added a "for home exhbition only" title (superimposed over the torch lady) which appears at the end of each short accompanied by the original end title audio -- and then, the original end title appears mute -- well, not exactly mute, it's accompanied with end-of-reel static.

I remember reading in the Three Stooges Journal in the early 1980s that Niles (IIRC) was offering the four public domain shorts. And also per the Journal in the mid-1970s, Columbia apparently did release other comedy shorts in Super 8 with people like Buster Keaton and Charley Chase. But I don't know which specific films.

See Reply #7 for the back of the box that lists the other non-Stooge shorts.
Those Super 8 sound prints look fantastic, don't they? (the ones released by Columbia.) I have the Niles DISORDER IN THE COURT. It's just OK. SING A SONG OF SIX PANTS from Red Fox Films just sold for over $50 on eBay while a buy-it-now one sat there for $50.  :laugh: It might still be there. Before eBay, I was paying an average of $50 but that's way too much now.

What projector do you use? I have several Super 8 sound projectors, the best being an Elmo ST-1200HD.

Burt Lancaster was too short!
- The Birdman of Alcatraz


Offline Marshall

I have the Super 8 Silent, 200 foot editions of Three Little Pigskins and Goofs and Saddles, but I haven't watched them in decades. Although I bought a Super 8 sound and, a16mm projector a longtime after that, I don't have any Stooges films in  those film categories. I definitely purchased the Stooges shorts in DVD and VHS over the years. I even bought a DVD on the Rhino label back around 2002 of The New Three Stooges cartoons, one of the early disc releases of them (whatever you think of them, at least there were the brief live action segments).


Offline NoahYoung

I have a bunch of the silent ones, as I listed above. The picture quality doesn't come close to the sound ones Columbia released. They do work pretty well with the on-screen subtitles, and if you didn't know it, they wouldn't seem edited.

I have 2 Goodtimes DVD boxed sets that have 2 DVDs with just those color live-action sequences. One of them is still in shrink-wrap!
The rest of the DVDs contain the 4 PD shorts plus endless documentaries made just for Goodtimes that re-cycle clips from the 4 PD shorts over and over again. There are a few interviews on there with the likes of Emil Sitka, Moe, and I think Larry, as well as a few (I think) other co-stars or people who worked on the shorts. It also has SWING PARADE OF 1946. The boxed sets were so cheap when I bought them, otherwise I would have passed. It does have some live Kinescopes of TV appearances, including JERKS OF ALL TRADES and an appearance with Sinatra.
Burt Lancaster was too short!
- The Birdman of Alcatraz


Offline Mark The Shark

See Reply #7 for the back of the box that lists the other non-Stooge shorts.
Those Super 8 sound prints look fantastic, don't they? (the ones released by Columbia.) I have the Niles DISORDER IN THE COURT. It's just OK. SING A SONG OF SIX PANTS from Red Fox Films just sold for over $50 on eBay while a buy-it-now one sat there for $50.  :laugh: It might still be there. Before eBay, I was paying an average of $50 but that's way too much now.

What projector do you use? I have several Super 8 sound projectors, the best being an Elmo ST-1200HD.

Thanks, I didn't see the pictures earlier when I posted my reply.

I never actually had a Super 8 sound projector, my dad only had a silent one when we were kids. I remember renting a sound projector from a local camera shop for a weekend once just to be able to watch them, but I don't know what brand it was. I eventually got a sound projector via ebay about 20 years ago, but again I don't remember what brand it is, it's in storage. I haven't looked at these films in decades. I do remember though, "Men In Black" had the sound out of sync by a second or two. Also, I got "Kook's Tour" in Super 8 sound in the early 1980s (it might have been a "close-out"). But it was edited down to one reel in black and white as if it was a Columbia short. (Edit: I meant one 400 foot Super 8 reel, so more like a two-reeler.) On the cover, over the words "Super 8 sound -- COLOR" was a sticker that said "SOUND -- Super 8." I had some kids over to watch it with me and one of them looked at the cover and said something to the effect of, "maybe it's their last film, but it's not the funniest."


Offline Freddie Sanborn

I’ve got about half a dozen Stooge shorts in 16mm. They’re all winners with one exception:

Three Little Pigskins
Men in Black
Hoi Polloi
Oily to Bed, Oily to Rise
Beer Barrel Polecats (the exception)
Heavenly Daze
Punchy Cowpunchers


“If it’s not comedy, I fall asleep.” Harpo Marx


Offline hiramhorwitz


As mentioned above, KOOK'S TOUR was also released, in both a 400 foot and full-length version. Niles Film Products released it in 1975, the same year that Moe passed away.


Here's the 1975 flyer that Niles sent out, hawking the $199 Super 8 Sound version of Kook's Tour.  I can't tell you how excited I was when I received this flyer from Niles.  But the Super 8 Sound version was financially out of my reach in those days (not to mention that I didn't own a Super 8 Sound projection), so it wasn't until CY 2000 that I finally saw the film, when I found a VHS copy in the one dollar bin at K-Mart, and I grabbed it.



Offline NoahYoung

I still have not seen KOOK'S TOUR except for some clips on those Goodtimes DVDs that I mentioned. It didn't whet my appetite to see any more of it.

I would like to complete my collection of those Super 8 or Standard 8mm silents released by Columbia, but they go for too much money now, relatively speaking. About 10 years ago I was getting them for about $5 shipped. Now, with shipping they average around $15. Not worth it for edited silent versions. I've picked up Super 8 sound prints of PARDON MY CLUTCH and BIRD IN THE HEAD recently -- decent deals and definitely worth it.

If you can get a very good to excellent original 16mm print of any of the shorts, it blows everything else away. The definition of "original" for 16mm is still about 5 generations away from the original camera negative (OCN). Keep in mind that 35mm release prints seen by audiences when they were first released were still 3 generations from the OCN.

With DVD, Blu-ray,  2k, 4k, or however-high-the -K-goes, the OCN can be scanned. Not sure how many Ks it takes to fully capture 35mm, but I did read somewhere recently that it took much more than 4K to get the full resolution for THE WIZARD OF OZ.

IMHO, 16mm at least equals Blu-ray. I'm talking about when the pre-print is superior, as in the Super 8 sound shorts released by Columbia, and certainly 16mm original prints.


Burt Lancaster was too short!
- The Birdman of Alcatraz


Offline I. Cheatam

Nowadays, I'm mainly just looking for edited physical 16mm prints that were used by TV stations.


Offline hiramhorwitz

Nowadays, I'm mainly just looking for edited physical 16mm prints that were used by TV stations.

This may be more than you want, but here's a current Ebay listing that sounds consistent with what you're seeking:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/295087197468?ViewItem=&item=295087197468
 


Offline NoahYoung

Nowadays, I'm mainly just looking for edited physical 16mm prints that were used by TV stations.

Just about every day 16mm prints of theirs are newly listed. Sometimes they are pricey.
When you say "edited" do you mean splices where they inserted then later removed commercials?
WPIX in NYC heavily edited the violence out -- I doubt that you would want those. What can be funny is that because of the separation of picture and sound, you see Moe about to clunk Curly over the head, then a jump cut, but you still hear the sound of the <insert blunt object here> hitting his head!
Burt Lancaster was too short!
- The Birdman of Alcatraz


Offline NoahYoung

It's been awhile since I've been here...

I've discovered some edits in my "unedited" Super 8 sound prints.

In "Three Sappy People",  it is missing the punch bowl gag, and the wooden leg gag. So this only runs about 13 minutes. I've had this print for awhile and only discovered this about a year ago. The reason is I never watch it on DVD since I have the film print. It was only through reading the reviews here that I discovered something was missing.

In "A Bird in the Head," it is missing the scene where Curly and the gorilla drink the alcohol.

Some googling on these titles showed that these scenes were cut when Screen Gems first released them to TV, due to not being able to show the consumption of alcohol. Not sure why the wooden leg scene was cut, other than maybe they thought it would be offensive.

When I was a kid, all the cuts were made to remove the violence, and were usually done by the local stations -- very badly, I might add. Because of the separation of the sound track and the frame of the film being projected, you could still hear the sound effect of Curly being hit on the head, and his reaction to it, though the visual was missing.

Anyway, this is false advertising at it's best, since all the prints weren't "unedited" as it said on the box. I wonder how Sony would react if I compained to them about something that happened 50 years ago? (Though Sony didn't own them at the time.)

(As an aside, I recently discovered that Sony and Columbia collaborated on some vinyl LP releases long before Sony bought Columbia in 1989.)


Burt Lancaster was too short!
- The Birdman of Alcatraz


Offline Umbday

Late to the discussion — I started collecting the Stooges on Super 8 in the late 70s, and picked it up again via Ebay over the past 15 yeas or so. To date, I have all the Super 8 Curly shorts that Columbia put out, but just a few of the Shemps (Hot Stuff and Vagabond Loafers). Columbia managed to release many of Curly's absolute best, but almost none of Shemp's better one.

As mentioned above, several other titles have been available from various sources. I managed to snag prints of I'll Never Heil Again, Dizzy Doctors, Boobs in Arms, and Violent is the Word, which appear to be Screen Gems prints released by Jef films. (I did see Oily to Bed on the market at one point.) Additionally, I managed to grab Disorder in the Court and (believe it or not) Three Loan Wolves (of all things) from one of those dubious sources.

I'm glad to have these prints, but I confess to rarely screening them. (Small NYC apartment, and a hassle to set things up.) I opt for the DVDs and the weekly MeTV broadcasts.