Topic: Led Zeppelin Album Discussion

[metaldams]

I guess this ties into the album discussion, the opinion of a lot of fans that 1973 was the zenith for Zeppelin as far as being at the height of their creative powers, both in the studio and touring & that the dropoff started in 1975--not so much with PG, but the whole '75 tour.

I don't agree with that prevailing thought, but it has made for good discussion over the years & when the excesses of rock and roll life actually derailed the Mighty Zeppelin....

After PRESENCE, I’m going to do a big post on all the officially released live stuff - including the DVD’s.  I don’t expect everybody to listen and view it all, just maybe sample and give brief opinions.  Perhaps a little breather for everyone and a chance to learn a few things at the same time.  I will also do something similar when we get to LIVE EVIL from Black Sabbath.

In your case, Diesel, I know you’ve heard 20,000 Zep bootlegs, so I’d be interested in your take on live Zeppelin post 1975 when we get to that post.  I’m nowhere near as well versed as you are on the bootleg stuff, but definitely have my opinions on the Knebworth 1979 footage on the DVD.

[metaldams]

Also glad you guys all dig HOUSES OF THE HOLY.  It really is just those few moments I mention that prevent me from liking it more than I do.  Again, I can totally understand people calling it their best.

[metaldams]

      Onto the double album opus PHYSICAL GRAFFITI, which, gun to my head, is probably my favorite Led Zeppelin album.  There are some days where LED ZEPPELIN III comes awful close.  That said, it’s the epic nature and sprawling musical journey this album embarks on that impresses me the most.  The majority of the first album is on the heavier rock side of Zeppelin with those blues and funk influences, yet more mature musically, if not lyrically, than the first couple of albums.  By the end of the first album and onto the first half of album two, things get more worldly, adventurous, spiritual and beautiful.  My favorite part of the album.  Then for side four things are back to being rootsier with the big dramatic heavy rock ending to finish things off.

      PHYSICAL GRAFFITI is to me superior to The Rolling Stones fabulous EXILE ON MAIN STREET.  While the Stones is a wonderful journey through musical Southern Americana, Zeppelin goes there and much more, getting modern heavy rock and Middle Eastern influences added to the mix.  Speaking of The Rolling Stones, the building on this album cover is the same one they would use later on in their “Waiting On A Friend” video.

      Another interesting thing about PHYSICAL GRAFFITI is half of this album contains outtakes from previous album sessions dating all the way back to LED ZEPPELIN III.  With that in mind, it really is amazing how well all of this material flows together, nothing disjointed at all.  Also makes me think Jimmy Page had the concept of CODA down much earlier than 1982 and used the best stuff for this album.  Onto the track by track.

“Custard Pie”  A nice innocent song about baked desserts that’s really rocking.  That opening riff is a great way to as is that funky keyboard John Paul Jones plays.  The riffs get pretty spacious at points and the groove is phenomenal throughout.  Fantastic guitar solo and harmonica playing ends this song.  A nice butt shaking rock classic.

“The Rover”  I have always loved this song.  The opening before the verses has such a great build up.  Another fantastic opening riff and I love the way it builds to the four on the floor rhythm section joining in.  I love the bridge to this song as well and the way it momentarily takes the song on this more epic adventure.  Another classic.  Recorded during the “Houses of the Holy” sessions.  Better than “D’yer Ma’ker.”

“In My Time of Dying”  For years I thought this was a Zeppelin original.  Then about ten to fifteen years ago I heard Bob Dylan doing a cover of this song on his debut album and it was credited as a traditional song.  Another case of Zeppelin taking an oldie, but they really do make it their own here!  Studio wise, at 11:04, this is the longest song they would ever record.  That slow slide guitar build up with those plant vocals and occasional rhythm section embellishments is really effective and the song rocks real hard once the rhythm section fully kicks in.  Dare I say, a bit heavy metal?  But yeah, a major milestone in the Zeppelin catalog as far as I’m concerned.

“Houses of the Holy”. Side two begins with the title track from the previous album.  Def Leppard did a similar thing with their album and song, “On Through the Night.”  A somewhat poppy song with quasi sexual/Satanic lyrics and a really cool and catchy riff.  The bass line was transcribed in a guitar magazine when I was a teen and I knew how to play it, a fun song.  Recorded during the “Houses of the Holy” sessions, better than “D’yer Ma’ker.”

“Trampled Under Foot”  What I’m about to say does not take away from my enjoyment of this song at all, but read these lyrics.  I swear, the guys in Spinal Tap would blush singing them.  No matter, this is a strong funk harder rocker with a really infectious riff and groove and a strong Plant vocal, so I can forgive the lyrics.  This reminds me, I’m due for an oil change.

“Kashmir”  It’s friggin’ “Kashmir” of course it’s awesome.  Almost my favorite song on the album, there’s one ahead that beats it in my eyes.  Eight plus minutes of progressive awesomeness.  Guitar and keyboard riffs abound with a very Middle Eastern feel and the lyrics match the music.  I can picture Douglas Fairbanks flying on a carpet to this song and I also think it inspired Ritchie Blackmore and Ronnie James Dio to write “Stargazer,” so that makes this song even more awesome.  A well hailed classic and deservedly so.  Bonham is killing it here.

“In the Light”  Another song with an Eastern feel that opens side three and the drone with the singing over it reminds me of “Within You, Without You” from The Beatles.  The songs progresses into these doomy, almost Black Sabbath like riffs while maintaining its Indian charm at the same time.  The chorus is this mellow, more traditional part with that distinct major scale melody Page plays.  Another real cool, epic song that sounds like it belongs in another world.

“Bron-Yr-Aur”  Two minutes of beautiful, atmospheric acoustic guitar playing from Jimmy Page.  Serves the same purpose as similar Tony Iommi pieces on Black Sabbath albums.  Recorded during the “Led Zeppelin III” sessions.

“Down By the Seaside”  One of the most criminally underrated Led Zeppelin songs ever.  I love the song lyrically, about man’s rush and how we get away from nature and the simple things.  I love the mood, I love those harmonies before the chorus, I love the melody, the guitar and rhythms.  This song is another one that is real good but becomes beyond awesome once the bridge comes in, taking it to another real cool little world.  An outtake from “Led Zeppelin IV” and a song that should be regarded as a classic.

“Ten Years Gone”  My favorite song on the album and one of my favorite Led Zeppelin songs ever.  I think a lump in my throat forms every time I hear that opening melody.  The lyrics are very poignant, the bridge is stellar and this song is just so beautiful.  I have nothing else to say, it’s just beautiful because it is.

“Night Flight”  Side four begins.  Like Sam has those three songs in a row on the third album (which I agree with), for me it’s “Kashmir” followed by the entirety of side three on this album.  After that amazing run, there can’t help be a drop off and “Night Flight” is my least favorite song on the album.  It’s not terrible, it’s not a track I skip, it’s pleasant enough, I just like the other songs better.

“The Wanton Song”  Jiminy Cricket, that riff!  If that ain’t a metal riff I don’t know what is.  A real fast technical riff with strong rhythm section support, especially when it gets real syncopated.  Makes this song as far as I’m concerned.

“Boogie with Stu” A fun and simple rockabilly song in which Ritchie Valens has a songwriting credit!  Not knowing much beyond “La Bamba,” I’m assuming this is one of his songs.  Who is Stu?  That would be Ian Stewart of The Rolling Stones, who plays piano on this track.  Another “Led Zeppelin IV” outtake.

“Black Country Woman”  Another simple, rootsy and fun song.  For years I thought this was about a black southern girl throwing a beer in Robert Plant’s face but I have learned The Black Country is an area of England (Birmingham area), so probably a British girl instead.  A “Houses of the Holy” outtake that is, you guessed it.  The album is winding down more casually until….

“Sick Again”  A kick ass heavy rock song to end the album!  Great riff, rhythm section playing and vocals.  Lyrically a little disturbing, about the days when it was OK to brag about underage girls being attracted to you, but musically a great song to end the album.

So yes, overall my favorite Zeppelin album due to the scope of the whole thing and that amazing third side in particular.  Like with Sabbath, after 1975, the culturally accepted version accepted of the classic era is over but if you ask me, there is still good music to come - including my favorite Zeppelin song.

[Shemp_Diesel]

My opinion could be a bit biased, but PG definitely rates as the GOAT for double-albums & seems to be the record that best encompasses the whole "light and shade" concept that the band--for the most part--was always striving for. An element that was sorely lacking on the next album, but I'll save those comments for later.

I think the outtakes are really at home here, especially for a track like Boogie With Stu--a song that I don't hate at all, I just have a hard time imagining it being squeezed into Led Zeppelin IV; imagine if it followed Stairway. But on a double album, where experimentation is probably a necessity to meet the quota, it feels perfect in its placement on this album.

I guess I'll go with the grain & say that Kashmir is the best song here & it really went to another level on the live stage, just like Trampled Under Foot. No bad tracks at all or nothing I can honestly say I would ever skip when having the downtime to put this record on in its entirety. I wouldn't argue at all with the thought that PG is Zeppelin's magnum opus...

10/10...

[HomokHarcos]

I'm also weary going into double albums, fearing they will overstay their welcome. Thankfully Physical Graffiti turned out to be an excellent record.

"Custard Pie" is a strong blues influenced guitar song. It does have a simple riff, but it is effective and catchy. I also think I hear synthesizers in this song. "The Rover" and "In My Time of Dying" have a garage/bar style to them, songs I would imagine a group of friends playing for fun. It ends strongly with an all-out jam at the ending. "Houses of the Holy" is one of those songs that gives me nostalgia from hearing it a lot growing up. I remember being so confused when I heard this song is not on the Houses of the Holy album. "Trampled Under Foot" is a much better funk-inspired song than "The Crunge". They really nailed down the sound here. To the average person it might sound like one of their most dated songs, not a criticism I would ever give. "Kashmir" is one of the first ever Led Zeppelin songs I knew, and it's also probably one of their most famous. I actually never realized how long it was, even this time when I listened to the album it did not feel as long as it was. From the title it sounds like it's going to be a George Harrison style song, but it's not.

I like the beginning of "In My Light", which as metaldams explains, has a otherworldly feel to it due to the synthesizer. Funny how the rest of the song feels like a rock cover of what came before. "Bron-Yr-Aur" is a good interlude song, it's nice to hear a song that just has acoustic guitar, it certainly would have fit in with Led Zeppelin III. "Driven By Seaside" was a song I didn't care too much for, and would be the first song I would cut if I had to make this a single LP. "Ten Years Gone" is also one of my favorite Led Zeppelin songs and my personal favorite on the album. Big credit to Jimmy Page for the guitar riffs throughout this song. "Night Flight" is not a bad song, it just has the misfortune of following what came before. It's a catchy song in its own right.

I was waiting to hear what your thoughts on "The Wanton Song" were, as my uncle used it as an example of Led Zeppelin doing metal. It's got a good riff, but I don't think Robert Plant's vocals were top notch here. "Boogie With Stu" reminds of the 1950s inspired rock and roll songs The Beatles were releasing. I love seeing that throwback, it's probably the closest Led Zeppelin have come to something like that. "Black Country Woman" is a better representation of Robert Plant's vocals, the harmonica is also fun. "Sick Again" is a good closer for the album.

There was only one misfire for me on this album, which is a pretty good track record for a double album.

[HomokHarcos]

I'm in an online group and somebody shared this picture of Jimmy Page thinking it was Mabel Normand. He does look a lot like her here.

Edit: I searched it up online, and it comes up as Mabel Normand. I can't even tell if it's her or Jimmy Page now.

[metaldams]

They do look alike, yet somehow Mabel was way cuter.  Funny how that works.

[Shemp_Diesel]

I was just listening to The Wanton Song again & as usual, was just in awe of John Bonham. I can definitely agree with other fans who call Bonham the engine that drove Led Zeppelin and why the surviving band members decided to disband after his untimely death.

I know there have been many bands who have replaced members for various reasons, but it would be hard to imagine Zeppelin in the 80s with a new drummer...

[metaldams]

I heard they were briefly thinking of going with Cozy Powell, who I think did end up playing for Robert Plant among a zillion others (including Black Sabbath), but yeah, agreed.  Zeppelin and The Beatles, no matter how much people bitch and complain about it, broke up at the right time and didn’t do the watered down reunion tour thing.  Best thing for their legacies.

[metaldams]

      PRESENCE is album number seven from Led Zeppelin, released in March 1976.  Bookending this album will be two tragedies for Robert Plant.  In August 1975, Robert Plant was involved in a really bad car accident in Greece and was in a wheelchair for a very long time, including during these November 1975 recording sessions.  A U.S. tour had to be cancelled as a result so the band quickly decided to record another album.  Quickly being the operative word.  The album was recorded in Musicland Studios in Munich, Germany and the band only had 18 days to record the album.  The reason for the rush is The Rolling Stones had time booked at the same studio to record BLACK AND BLUE.  Jimmy Page basically worked like a madman these 18 days, working 16 - 20 hour days working on massive overdubs.

      Jimmy Page is the operative person on this album - something that won’t be the case next album.  He wrote the music solely for six of the seven songs here with Plant doing the lyrics.  Only one track has the full band been given writing credit.  This to me is the Jimmy Page riff album.  My most enjoyable listens to PRESENCE over the years have been when I focused on Page’s riffs and the rhythm section backing him up.  It is quite massive.  It’s true, like Diesel hinted at - there is no acoustic guitar on this album, no keyboards from John Paul Jones, just guitar, bass, drums and vocals.  Lots of shade and little light.  There are no songs I flat out dislike on here like “D’yer Ma’ker” but not many real stand out tracks either.  Just one, maybe two.  This would be my least favorite Led Zeppelin album (not counting CODA) if it weren’t for the fact that there is one song on here that I think is flat out the best Led Zeppelin song ever.  Let’s do the track by track.

“Achilles Last Stand”  The best Led Zeppelin song ever.  It’s like Jimmy Page welled up most of his inspiration here.  The majority of the other songs on the album are derivative of some other style of music or Zeppelin song, but here?  Forward thinking creativity, like he decided to write the blueprint for half the Iron Maiden catalog on a whim.  The galloping rhythms?  The bolero triplets?  The fantasy old world lyrics?  The guitar wizardry?  Iron Maiden.  All four band members are on fire, creating an unlimited supply of candy for the ear.  Seriously, listen to the layers of music going on here.  You can have several listens to this track and I promise your ears will hear some new piece of music each time.  Bonham gallops throughout and punctuates the songs with thunderous fills.  John Paul Jones has this really thick eight string bass tone throughout, godly.  Jimmy Page and Robert Plant just create these layers of music that is awe inspiring and whenever Page goes into a solo the hairs on my arms stand.  A true masterpiece.

“For Your Life”  The first of many riff workouts on this album.  A lot of riffs on these songs are pretty memorable and have these spaces in between, “For Your Life” being no exception.  One of the more forward thinking riff workouts on this album and I love the way the riff stays the same yet changes key during the bridge.  Really effective.  So yeah, riff song number one that has another good Page solo and some tight rhythm playing.

“Royal Orleans”  Not exactly a major Zeppelin tune.  This one has a riff and rhythm based on another James Brown workout, much like “The Crunge.”  I actually like “The Crunge” a bit better, the humor works better there for me.  So yeah, basically tap your feet and shake your butt to this one.

“Nobody’s Fault But Mine” The second most famous song on the album and I believe the only other one besides “Achilles” that was ever played live.  The reason why, I think, it stands out more than the others is that “Ah ah ah ah, uh ah ahhhh” vocal hook.  Very catchy and listen to the pounding rhythms going on underneath that.  Awesome.  Some more really good, spacey, heavy bottom ended guitar riffs in this one.  Good song.

“Candy Store Rock”  Another song, when you’re talking about great Zeppelin songs, never shows up.  It’s basically a song with really dirty lyrics and an infectious Bo Diddley beat behind it.  A great example of what I meant in “Achilles Last Stand.”  That song?  Innovators, inspiring bands that came after.  Here?  Channeling twenty year old music.  Not necessarily a bad thing, just tap your foot to the beat and don’t think too hard.

“Hots On For Nowhere” Robert Plant drops an f bomb.  Stop the presses.  A bit of a poppy chorus with the “na na na” stuff is really the only memorable thing about this one except for, again, the riffs and rhythms.  I do like the way Page does that 50’s rock and roll lick at the end and then repeats it with a different tone.  That I remember as well.

“Tea For One”  After a brief intro, this song is pretty derivative of “Since I’ve Been Loving You.”  Hey, if you gotta be derivative of something, I can think of worse.  The difference is there’s no organ here, just bass from John Paul Jones.  I am glad a mellower piece ends the album, giving some much needed variety to the proceedings.  But yeah, originality aside, cool song, and great smooth Plant vocal and Page guitar playing throughout.

So there it is, PRESENCE.  The worst selling Led Zeppelin album, “only” selling three million in the U.S.  So what happens next?  Plant is still recovering so they can’t tour right away.  In fall 1976, they release a live album and movie to make up for it which we’ll discuss next time.  In 1977 they do tour.  July 1977 they’re playing a big gig in Oakland with some young Birmingham band called Judas Priest opening for them.  It would be the last U.S. show ever.  They get a call soon after that Robert’s five year old son Karac is suddenly sick.  An hour or two later, another call, he passed away.  Some stomach virus killed him.  Unbelievably tragic and Robert Plant took a break from the band for several months, until about the spring of 1978.  No father should have to go through that and Plant took the time to reevaluate his life.  Led Zeppelin were notoriously one of the big party bands with women/girls and substance and it would all come to a head soon.

Next entry will be a discussion of live albums and DVD’s.  Sam and Homok, it’s about 15 hours worth of music, so consider that an extra credit assignment or a couple of weeks off and time to catch up on this album and PHYSICAL GRAFFITI. No way I expect you to take all that in.  I hope you’ll find it interesting reading and I know Diesel will have plenty to say about live Zeppelin.

[Shemp_Diesel]

I guess this was the first big sign of cracks in the mighty Zeppelin armor, with this album standing in the mighty tall shadow of Physical Graffiti, and the mixed reviews for the '77 tour that followed, many would say that the various excesses of drugs, sex and rock & roll were finally catching up to the band.

As Metal has already astutely pointed out, the band had about 2 weeks to crank out Presence, so with the time constraints, I can rightly guess that there wasn't time here--like with previous albums--to think about arranging songs with a lot of light and shade, or many keyboards or acoustics, just simple, fundamental hard rock. And I've said elsewhere on the internet, if another band produced an album in similar vein to this, it would probably be labeled a masterpiece by many, but standing not only in the wake of PG, but pretty much every record that preceded it, Presence just lacks some kind of missing ingredient.

I think it's also telling that only 2 tunes from this album were played live & I'm always left to wonder what the band could've done with a track like For Your Life on the '77 North American tour, with JPJ using that somewhat booming alembic bass. I thought Doug, your analogy of comparing ALS with Iron Maiden was intriguing. I've always felt like Achilles was that rare venture into progressive rock for the band, a field I'm more familiar with when listening to Rush or Yes.

This is definitely the "worst" Led Zeppelin album, but--trying to come up with a sports analogy--it would be like saying Henry Aaron went to the plate 4 times and only managed to go 3 for 4 with a few doubles...

8/10....

[metaldams]

Iron Maiden, while a metal band, have always had progressive rock elements in their music.  Even more so their recent stuff.  So not as far off from Rush and Yes as you’d think.

[HomokHarcos]

I actually felt this album was pretty underwhelming, almost like a filler album. There are songs that I like on here, but it's not up to par with the rest of the albums. I do feel a little bad saying that knowing how much Jimmy Page was overworked. OK, let's get to the album.

"Achilles Last Stand" is a long opener that sounds unlike anything Led Zeppelin had done up to this point. Listening to this album on headphones I noticed John Paul Jones's bass playing throughout. The instrumental parts of the song are very good. "For Your Life" and "Royal Orleans" have a similar problem to me: they sound like a band playing a riff over and over again at a performance, and not a particularly memorable ones. I was starting to be pretty disappointed with the album after hearing these two songs in a row, but it picked up for the rest of the album.

"Nobody's Fault But Mine" I think is the only song that was familiar to me on here. We get a really good Jimmy Page riff that keeps the song moving along while feeling interesting. The guitar solo is the standout on the album. "Candy Store Rock" has a 1950s rock and roll feel. I like how the updated that style of music to a hard rock feel. "Hots on for Nowhere" is a repitive song, but it's one with a riff I really like so I don't get sick. The "la la la la la la la yeah" section is very catchy, it's scat singing which shows you don't even need lyrics for good vocals. "Tea for One" also sounds like a barroom song, it reminds me of the type of music that was involved in the first two Led Zeppelin albums. Clear blues rock song.

I admit this was my least favorite album so far. Overall does not compare to their earlier peak albums.

[Shemp_Diesel]

HomokHarcos, I've seen quite a few criticisms for For Your Life, very similar to yours in finding that a song that maybe overstays its welcome and could have been trimmed by a few minutes. My opinion is the polar opposite & I've always found that to be the best track on the album, what with that booming Alembic bass from Jonesy throughout the whole song & Jimmy pulling out the rare Fender Stratocaster to use a bit of whammy bar action on it. Listening to it again, I can't help but feel a slight letdown that the band didn't incorporate it into their live setlist for the '77 tour. I know they would have nailed it...

[Umbrella Sam]

Alright, time to finally catch up on this. My opinion on PHYSICAL GRAFFITI is actually kind of similar to my opinion on LED ZEPPELIN III, in that I like the majority of the album, but not the opening or closing tracks, both of which just feel like kind of standard rock songs that don’t have particularly memorable riffs or rhythm sections. It also doesn’t help that the last track has creepy lyrics. I enjoyed the rest of the album, though, even the longer songs. “The Rover” has a really awesome opening, especially the drums, and great guitar work throughout. “In My Time of Dying” is 11 minutes, but doesn’t feel like it thanks to the natural energy coming from a Led Zeppelin jam session, which I imagine is why Zeppelin was known for playing so well live. I found it ironic that the title track for the previous album instead ended up on this one; I can’t think of another case where that has happened. Once again, some really great guitar work on this one.

When I first heard “Trampled Under Foot”, I immediately thought of Stevie Wonder’s “Superstition” and, sure enough, when looking it up, John Paul Jones credited Wonder as the inspiration. I agree metaldams, I’m not crazy about the lyrics here either, but that groove really is so cool and memorable that I can forgive that. “Kashmir” is a song I’m surprised I’ve never heard, given how much people talk about it, and it did not disappoint. This song was amazing; I love songs that use strings in this way, almost like a big movie score, and they make great use of the Mellotron too. This is a song I wish I’d heard before, because I probably would have gotten into Led Zeppelin much sooner if I had heard it.

I listened to “In the Light” multiple times because I really wasn’t sure what to think of it at first. The main body of the song was good from the outset, but when I first heard that opening, I thought it dragged a bit, and yet I enjoyed the synthesizer when it came back in the middle instrumental section. Upon repeat listens, I found that I actually did end up enjoying the opening, so I don’t know what it was. Bron-Yr-Aur is basically just a chance to hear some acoustic guitar playing, which works for me. I’m with metaldams on “Down By the Seaside”;  I love the use of the electric piano and guitar filters throughout, and I thought this was one of Plant’s best vocal performances throughout the album. “Ten Years Gone” is probably my second favorite tack after “Kashmir”; really great use of acoustic guitar and bass throughout. It sounds like something that could have been on LED ZEPPELIN III, so I was surprised to learn it was not an outtake from that.

I actually really like “Night Flight” as well, especially the organ playing from John Paul Jones. I can see the comparison to early metal with “The Wanton Song”; I especially love the instrumental sections here, with some great guitar work backed by a really solid rhythm section. “Boogie with Stu” is a fun little ‘50s throwback; I don’t know a ton about Ritchie Valens, although I have seen the Valens biopic LA BAMBA, and I could see this being the type of song he’d play. This song and the following track, “Black Country Woman”, make great use of acoustic guitar, which I’m glad to hear playing a more prominent role again throughout this entire album. I also really enjoy the harmonica playing on the latter as well.

When I first heard that Led Zeppelin made a double album that was partially made up of outtakes, I was quite skeptical at first. It’s difficult to do a double album in the first place and having one with songs not considered good enough to make previous albums sounds like a disaster on paper. But I can see why people consider this among the better ones, even though I don’t like the opening and closing tracks. It does have a natural flow, especially side 3, and it also has “Kashmir” which really does feel like a masterpiece alongside “Stairway to Heaven”.

[metaldams]

Other cases where title tracks appear on different albums:

ON THROUGH THE NIGHT is the debut Def Leppard album and the song of that title appears on the next album, HIGH ‘N DRY.

SHEER HEART ATTACK is the third Queen album and a song by the title appears on their sixth album, NEWS OF THE WORLD.

Concerning Zeppelin and lyrics.  While I have always liked Led Zeppelin, I’m a bigger Black Sabbath fan.  It took me years to figure this out, but I think one of the reasons is seventies Sabbath, lyrically, is one thousand times more relatable for me.  Musically, the bands are much closer quality wise.

[Umbrella Sam]

Alright, now on to PRESENCE. It’s interesting how taking 18 days to record was considered rushing for Led Zeppelin, as that’s approximately the amount of time it took Elton John to record GOODBYE YELLOW BRICK ROAD. Just goes to show the different paces the two acts were at when it came to recording, although in Zeppelin’s defense, Plant still recovering from his accident made things even more stressful.

“Achilles Last Stand” is indeed a really great opener. Much like “Stairway”, it has so many moving parts throughout, and the varying guitar styles really make it interesting. The bass playing is also really catchy here. I’m with Shemp_Diesel on “For Your Life”; I think it’s a really good song too. I love the way the guitar and bass are often in sync when performing the main riff, a riff that never outstays its welcome. “Royal Orleans” kind of reminded me of “Over the Hills and Far Away”, but without the acoustic guitar. It’s still catchy enough, just not as good as “Over the Hills”.

“Nobody’s Fault but Mine” is fine, but didn’t really meet my expectations. Given how it’s the other track that was played live, I guess I expected it to be on par with “Achilles Last Stand” and it really isn’t. One thing that does stick out here, though, is the bass playing. I agree, HomokHarcos, there was something about the bass playing on this album in particular that stood out; maybe it’s the fact that the instrumentation is more the basic rock combination of guitar, bass and drums throughout. I did like the harmonica playing on this song too.

“Candy Store Rock” is another ‘50s throwback. Zeppelin’s done this before; heck, the album before this had one. I still like it, though. Again, it’s nice just hearing them acknowledging where rock all began. “Hots On for Nowhere” mostly stood out due to the “la la las”, which to be fair is a really catchy vocal part. And, yes, “Tea for One” is pretty similar to “Since I’ve Been Loving You” without the organ, but it still works as a closer. The dark, bluesy intro is cool and there’s an occasional weeping guitar sound throughout. It’s still good, even if it’s not as good as what it’s replicating.

So, PRESENCE....yeah, it does kind of replicate some of their previous work, so in that sense I can see why it’s usually considered their weakest. As for me? It’s close, but I think I actually consider ZEPPELIN I to be a bit weaker. The thing is that PRESENCE really doesn’t actually have any bad songs on it, it’s just that they tend to sound similar what they’d done previously, and if I hadn’t heard that stuff previously, then I probably would think higher of it. None of the songs are ever really boring, whereas ZEPPELIN I does actually have some moments where it drags a bit. PRESENCE isn’t fantastic, but it’s still a perfectly listenable album that just happened to have come at a difficult time in this band’s career.

[metaldams]

      Now we’re onto the live Led Zeppelin discussion thread.  I’m not going to do a track by track here as my brain will explode.  I also don’t expect all you folks you listen or watch all this as your brains will explode too.  I will just give my general impression of each release, explore as much or as little as you wish.  We’ll discuss IN THROUGH THE OUT DOOR next time.

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      THE SONG REMAINS THE SAME, like mentioned in the PRESENCE post, was released to make up for the fact Zeppelin couldn’t tour in 1976 due to Robert Plant still recovering from his car accident.  It’s actually a 1973 performance from Madison Square Garden and until 1997, was the only officially released live Led Zeppelin available.  This was considered a problem because it is considered an off night by many - though Shemp Diesel, consumer of 1,000 Led Zeppelin bootlegs, will have a better formed opinion than I about that.  I will say, with the seventies being the golden age of the double live album, this album is not as good as say, MADE IN JAPAN from Deep Purple.  Both have songs that are jams of ridiculous length, but Purple do it better, at least on these documents. 

      Yes, if long jams bother you, you may want to avoid this one.  I would suggest, at least to understand Led Zeppelin at their most excessive, checking out the almost half hour live version of “Dazed and Confused” whether it be audio or video form.  Jimmy Page, alone on stage, playing his guitar with a violin bow for eternity.  When I’m in the mood for it, I love it.  When not, I pass.  Also very long, but always worth watching, in my opinion, is John Bonham’s drum solo in “Moby Dick.”  No matter how boring you think drum solos are, this is John Bonham we’re talking here and I always enjoy hearing the power and drama he brings to his solo.  If you watch it on video, check it out when he pounds the drums with his bare hands.  Awesome sauce.

      In audio form, this was a 100 minute album in 1976.  When re-released and remixed by modern day Iron Maiden producer Kevin Shirley in 2007, it became a 2 hour and 12 minute album.  There are extra tracks on this version and the remix does sound better than the original - plus it’s all that’s available these days.  Unless if you guys want to be completists, I say just skip the album and watch the movie instead.  One of those midnight movie classics for stoned teenagers of the seventies where in addition to hearing Zeppelin, you get to witness the visual glory of opened shirt Plant strutting for the ladies and watching Page wear what ever dragon costume he has.  You see JPJ look like a colonial hippy and Bonham the most down to Earth looking, giant gong behind his giant kit, pounding away.  You also see each band member do a little skit all unto themselves, John Bonham proving he could be Cagney and if you ever wanted to see Robert Plant’s kids naked by a stream, your quest ends here.      If not, well, here it is anyway.  One of those glorious excessive seventies documents that is the answer to why punk happened.



      Next we have BBC SESSIONS, released in 1997.  I bought this the day it came out, which also happened to be the same day Metallica released RELOAD.  Bought them both together.  This one clocks in at a brisk two and a half hours and if you listen to the expanded bonus disc released a few years back, only three hours and eighteen minutes.  You see why I don’t expect you to take this all in?  These consist of recordings made for the BBC, in case you haven’t figured that out.  Basically taken from four live studio sessions from 1969 in addition to two live concerts the BBC recorded, one in 1969 and one in 1971.  So this is early live Zeppelin and based on what I can gather, I like early live Zeppelin the best.  Just, for the most part, vocals, bass, guitar and drums and I tend to think early Zeppelin live is more powerful than say, the first two albums. 

       We do get a lot of repeat tracks - three versions of “Communication Breakdown” for example!  However, not quite as monotonous as is sounds as they find different arrangements for it.  One thing I will say.  Remember the infamous “squeeze my lemon” line from “The Lemon Song?”  Plant manages to throw that line into several of these songs, so be prepared for that line.

      We do get some songs not on albums.  “Traveling Riverside Blues” is a Robert Johnson cover that previously appeared on the 1990 box set which I will be buried with.  A really cool, up beat blues number with a great and catchy guitar riff from Page.  “The Girl I Love She Got Long Black Wavy Hair” is another cool three minute bluesy number that doesn’t appear on any album and was a selling point at the time.

      The 1971 stuff, which takes up the second disc, shows Zeppelin a little more refined.  They play a great version of “Stairway to Heaven” here and yes, we get a few acoustic numbers.  Zeppelin, as the mid seventies approached, always had acoustic parts of their set and this was criminally missing from THE SONG REMAINS THE SAME.  I also agree with Diesel.  I like the version of “Thank You” that closes out the original set much better than the studio version.



      Next we have what I feel is the best audio option for live Led Zeppelin, 2003’s HOW THE WEST WAS WON.  This one clocks in at two and a half hours and is a three CD set.  Taken from a few nights of recordings in Long Beach Arena in 1972, I can say a lot of the same things about this one as I can about THE SONG REMAINS THE SAME in terms of excess.  However, there are two key differences that make this superior.  One is that the performance is more inspired and two is the acoustic part of the show is included!  “Going to California,” “That’s the Way” and “Bron-Y-Aur Stomp,” simply glorious.  The end of the album is a big glorious jam doing all these 50’s rock songs in a medley and we still get Jimmy and his violin bow fetish along with Bonzo’s big drum solo.  The most complete and best sounding official Led Zeppelin audio document, so if you’re only going to listen to one, I suggest HOW THE WEST WAS WON.  However….



      Released on the same day as HOW THE WEST WAS WON was the epic two DVD set simply titled LED ZEPPELIN.  My favorite live Led Zeppelin release ever.  Essential.  About five hours overall, the first disc is Royal Albert Hall 1970 and is Zeppelin at their young, bluesy and hard rocking best.  I like the first two albums but I like this better.  Disc two we get a 1972 version of “Immigrant Song,” some live 1973 outtakes of stuff that didn’t make THE SONG REMAINS THE SAME, some acoustic stuff and more epic electric stuff from the big 1975 Earls Court Show (“Stairway to Heaven” and “In My Time of Dying” included), and the latter years 1979 Knebworth show.  The 1979 stuff show they are playing in front of a HUGE crowd and it fascinates me so much.  Page, totally addicted to heroin at this point, looks awful but Robert Plant is on fire here, totally carrying the show.

      What I love about this DVD set is that it tells the whole story.  The beginning bluesy days when they’re young and in fire.  The rich rock star big arena show middle years where the shows are more elaborate and them valiantly fighting for their lives at the end.  Also, with the exception of “Whole Lotta Love,” no other songs get repeated twice, so this feels very fresh.  As a bonus, we get a live TV performance from Denmark in the very early days when the band were young and on fire.  The one live Led Zeppelin document I can’t live without.



      Finally, released in 2012, we have CELEBRATION DAY.  A live show from London, December 10, 2007 with John Bonham’s son Jason on drums.  For live Led Zeppelin shows post break up, there’s this one show and Live Aid 1985 with Phil Collins on drums.  God bless Led Zeppelin for never turning into a nostalgia act, I wish I could say the same for Black Sabbath and so many other bands.  I only watched this once maybe ten years ago and have never owned a copy.  I should buy it.  I remember thinking this probably wasn’t going to be good but was pleasantly surprised at how much I enjoyed this.  Even though it’s not vintage era Zeppelin, they play the songs without much excessive jamming.  So if jamming ain’t your thing, you may want to check this out.

      There is my run through of live Zeppelin.  I’m busy this weekend with a friend and Mother’s Day, so I will post this early.  Diesel, I look forward to your thoughts on all the live eras and bootlegs out there in addition to the official stuff, I know you’re very knowledgeable, more than I.  The rest of you, consider this a breakdown of a ton of live music that is out there.

[Shemp_Diesel]

I've always joked that if Led Zeppelin had ever released as much official live material as a band like Rush, Zeppelin fans would probably lose their collective minds. I think before any of the recent offerings from the 90s and onwards, official live Zep material was extremely rare, and the few live bootlegs that circulated--not counting '75 Earl's Court--were subject to a lot of mixed reviews.

My only problem I've ever had with the "Song Remains the Same" project from 1976 (or '73 if you prefer) was the fact that it wasn't shot as a straight up concert film, but instead had to be littered with fantasy sequences & nonsense like footage of a fan running around like a chicken backstage until the cops got him.    Anyway, just listening to the audio--aside from Plant's somewhat tired voice--the playing from the rest of the band is top notch & I've always looked forward--for the most part--to how the band would take a lot of songs & stretch them out into long, instrumental jams onstage.

My all-time favorite for live performance is No Quarter, and the way the jams evolved over time, before they unfortunately dropped it from the setlist before the 1980 tour...

As for the other live releases, I think I'm with you Metal in that most of them center on Zeppelin in the early days. Although I contend, that if Jimmy Page ever felt the need, there's plenty of material from the '75 tour that would make for great official documents.

When I mentioned mixed reviews, it was interesting how Jimmy mostly stayed away from 1977 and 1980 for the Led Zeppelin DVD & even Knebworth for many years has been maligned. In the case of the 2nd show from 8/11/79, the critics have most of it right, because Jimmy was definitely off there, aside from a banging No Quarter and maybe the best live version of Kashmir...

The first Knebworth show from August 4 is what Jimmy stuck to for the DVD & even though he cherry picked most of the great performances, that whole show was excellent in my eyes--if you feel the need, go to youtube and search for August 4 Over the Hills and Far Away, and Misty Mountain Hop...

Anyway, if I have to give a number, I would say perfect 10 for all the official releases, even with the inherit flaws of the "Song Remains the Same" film project...

[metaldams]

It’s too bad when Jimmy did this latest batch of reissues they didn’t release more live stuff.  The bonus for the first album is a pretty cool show, but the rest of the stuff on other albums is outtakes and remixes I have no use for.  A wasted opportunity.

[Shemp_Diesel]

I think Page said years ago that as far as he was concerned, there was nothing left in the vaults to release, which is a pity. I still contend that an official release of the 2 shows they recorded at Earl's Court would be a great add to any DVD collection....

[HomokHarcos]

Instead of listening to all of the content, I decided to listen to a few of my favorite Led Zeppelin songs and see how they compared. "Over the Hills and Far Away" was much better in How the West Was Won. In The Song Remains the Same Robert Plant sounds like he's speaking the lyrics instead of singing them like in the song, it was pretty bad if you're used to the studio version. Other than that, I enjoyed the rest of what I heard on these live albums.

That Led Zeppelin live video set sounds like something I'd definitely want to watch in the future, I have a feeling my uncle probably has it somewhere (he also collected bootleg Zeppelin stuff).

[metaldams]

      We’re now onto the very last Led Zeppelin album released in the band’s lifetime, 1979’s IN THROUGH THE OUT DOOR.  After Robert Plant lost his son, he wasn’t sure if he was going to do music anymore, but finally came around to the idea in the spring of 1978.  During this time Jimmy Page’s heroin issues and John Bonham’s alcohol issues also got worse.  If PRESENCE was the Jimmy Page dominated guitar riff album, I think it’s safe to call IN THROUGH THE OUT DOOR the John Paul Jones keyboard album.  Jones really steps up him game here in place of the struggling Page, playing a big part in writing six of the seven songs on the album, with two of them lacking a Page credit at all. 

      If the criticism of PRESENCE with most is that it lacks the variety of other Zeppelin albums, with IN THROUGH THE OUT DOOR it’s that it barely registers as a hard rock album.  There’s a bit of progressive rock, synth rock, synth ballads, piano pop and even a little rockabilly.  You won’t find any heavy riffs here.  I’m not bothered by this at all as I appreciate all seven songs on here and would possibly even call this my third favorite Zeppelin album.  I think the production is exquisite, the instrumentation interesting, the songs well done and the entire band plays well.  Jimmy may have written less than normal, but his guitar solos are all great here.  IN THROUGH THE OUT DOOR was another number one album in most countries and the musical variety leads to many intriguing thoughts as to where the band would have went in the 1980’s.  Onto the track by track.

“In the Evening”  A slow synth and percussive build up starts the song and album before the song proper kicks in.  Once the song does kick in, we get that simple but classic JPJ synth riff that gets doubled quite a bit by Page on guitar.  Fantastic Plant vocal, an infectious groove and a really moody middle section with a really fantastic guitar solo.  I have always loved this song.  For a strange bit of trivia, so does Kirstie Alley.  I heard her refer to this as her favorite Led Zeppelin song on some VH1 show twenty years ago, thinking it sexy.  I was intrigued by that choice, which is why I remember it.

“South Bound Suarez”  What a fun, catchy tune this is.  I love Plant’s playful vocal and hooks and the tasteful guitar and piano fills throughout.  What really seals this song for me is that really awesome sixteenth note groove the bass and piano does throughout the song.  Some really killer rhythm playing and not easy to do.

“Fool in the Rain” Led Zeppelin, though they got massive FM play, were rarely a singles band.  That said, this song was a top forty hit.  A nice, breezy, catchy pop song with a really infectious piano riff again from Jonesy.  I really love Page’s gritty guitar tone during the solo and love the middle part when the song speeds up and gets really percussive.

“Hot Dog”  I suppose the throwaway song in the album, but a fun throwaway nonetheless.  That opening guitar lick is so dorky yet always makes me smile.  A bit of rockabilly that I imagine is a tribute to Elvis.  A fun song to tap your foot to a tad not take too seriously.  Actually, the only song on the album John Paul Jones had no part in writing, which may be why it seems different from the direction of the rest of the album.

“Carouselambra”  Holy honking synthesizers, Batman.  This is Zeppelin going into total prog territory here.  Lots of cool synth playing here from JPJ with another infectious groove and spacey Plant vocal.  The song begins cool and turns totally epic once it gets to those tasteful and melodic Jimmy Page guitar arpeggios followed by that slow and moody part - another great Plant showcase.  The song even turns a little dance electronic at the end!  A completely engaging musical journey and probably my favorite song on the album.

“All My Love” A beautiful Jones/Plant composition that is a tribute to Plant’s late son, Karac.  Those swelling synths and lick that open this song and play throughout get to me emotionally as does Plant’s vocals.  The instrumental section is so baroque sounding.  I always picture John Paul Jones in a powdered wig and coattails playing it.  Love this song.

“I’m Gonna Crawl”  An emotionally charged synth and guitar based blues ballad that has one of my favorite Robert Plant performances ever.  Some really understated singing that gets rhythmically and emotionally intense when the band fastens the rhythm for a few measures.  We even get some intense howls towards the end.  A beautiful closing song to a highly underrated album.

      What happens next is of course tragic and ends the band.  After a few huge shows in Knebworth in 1979, Zeppelin does a big European tour in 1980, which would be their last.  They were rehearsing to do an American tour, their first in over three years, at Bray Studios (where a lot of the old Hammer films were shot).  On the day of September 25, 1980; John Paul Jones and their tour manager walk in on John Bonham dead.  He drank close to forty shots of vodka the day before and died in his sleep the rock star way - choking on his own vomit.  What an unnecessary end of a great talent and more importantly, a father.  Aged 32, gone way too soon.  Led Zeppelin, after thinking it over and briefly, rumor has it, considering Cozy Powell, decides to call an end to Led Zeppelin, doing what so few rock bands do - call it quits at the right time.  We’ve got one more “album” to do, 1982’s CODA, a collection of outtakes.  Once that’s done, so is this Zeppelin journey.

[Shemp_Diesel]

I think the thing I look forward to with my most favorite rock bands is "range" & whether or not they can stretch their musical talents over the course of several albums. With Zeppelin, Rush and the Stone Temple Pilots--with STP, only the Scott Weiland era--I think it's safe to say, those bands covered a lot of territory over the course of their albums.

And it's for that reason that I've always loved ITTOD. I'll admit, on first listen, Carouselambra threw me off a bit because it was so "different" from anything they had previously done, but by the 3rd listen, I was totally hooked & would even say that it's a Top 5 Zeppelin song for me. Put it in the same epic pantheon as a Stairway or Kashmir.

Having Jonesy back on the various keys is certainly welcome & I've always guessed that if there had been a follow up album in the 80s, that it would've followed in the same vein as this one, with Jonesy taking the lead & the band following suit with the new wave of most music from that decade.

The only slight change I can see myself making with this album is that I would have swapped South Bound Saurez for the CODA outtake, Darlene. Other than that, this album is nothing to be ashamed of & I can see the sad irony in how the band finished with the slow blues number, I'm Gonna Crawl & that devastating last great Zeppelin solo by Jimmy.

10/10....

[Umbrella Sam]

If you were to have played me this album years ago without telling me anything, and then informed me afterwards that it was Led Zeppelin...I would not have believed you. I never realized Zeppelin ever went in this kind of direction.

I’ve mentioned this before, but i’ve really gained a much larger appreciation for synthesizers in more recent years. While there are certainly cases where they can be overblown and not work, this is a case where they really build a ton of atmosphere out of them, yet still incorporate them in a way where they still feel like part of the band, in the same way that the Elton John Band did it with ROCK OF THE WESTIES. There’s a really artsy feel to it, which is reflected in the cover art.

It starts with “In the Evening”. This song sounds sort of ahead of its time. It’s the kind of thing I could hear being the big hit out of an ‘80s movie, with a super catchy synth riff. I especially love the section in the middle where it goes in a different, kind of jazzy direction. “South Bound Saurez” is another song that seems to be a tribute to ‘50s rock and roll. But unlike their other ‘50s throwbacks, there feels like there’s a certain focus to it that makes it feel more up with the times; it feels like it all revolves around that piano part. “Fool in the Rain” also has some great piano, but the standout sections for me are the brief sections recurring throughout where it changes tempo and puts focus on the acoustic guitar; the ending in particular does a great job of taking advantage of this effect. I agree about the middle section with the percussion focus; a really fun distraction that’s paced just right.

“Hot Dog” reminds me a bit of Elton’s “Jack Rabbit” in a way, in that both songs are fast tracks that are kind of silly, but still really enjoyable due to the sheer energy as well as some fantastic vocal harmonizing. In fact, I’m going to say it: of all the Led Zeppelin albums, I think Robert Plant sounds at his best on this one. There’s a certain quality to it that feels so refined; it’s hard to explain, but it almost feels like it naturally matured more and more as the years went along and by the time of this last album was completely perfected. “Carouselambra” is awesome. The first section allows for the synths and guitars to play off of each other and pull it off really well. The middle, slower section puts the guitars more in focus and the final section is a unique, synth dominated section that leads to an epic fadeout.

Speaking of epic synths, that’s exactly the effect they have on the opening of the next track, “All My Love”. Very emotional atmosphere that’s supported by some subtle acoustic guitar throughout and once again Plant’s vocals are fantastic. The last track, “I’m Gonna Crawl”, is my favorite of the album. Once again, a fantastic synth opening, though in this case it has kind of a “curtain call” feel to it considering it is the last track on the last true Led Zeppelin album. The track in general has kind of a “full circle” feel to it, with Plant’s vocals at times reminding me of “Babe I’m Gonna Leave You”, as well as a very energetic guitar solo, the best on the album. The ending with the guitar, synths and drums all playing off of each other...it just feels so emotional, such a good way to go out, despite the fact that it probably was never actually meant to be that way and the end was only the result of tragic circumstances.

So, yeah, a really awesome album, definitely up there with LED ZEPPELIN III and HOUSES OF THE HOLY in my opinion. I’m probably going to have to go listen to these three back-to-back, because I’m kind of tempted to pick IN THROUGH THE OUT DOOR as my favorite now, but want to make sure it’s not just bias from being the most recent one I listened to. What I do know is that Led Zeppelin found a clear direction and stuck with it; they took more of a progressive rock focus, and it really would have been interesting what they could have done with it had circumstances not happened. Fantastic album, really glad I got to listen to it.