Topic: Interesting article about millennials and knowledge of Golden Age Hollywood.

[metaldams]

Found an interesting article.  I’m I guess what you call a late generation x guy, born in 1978.  I know some of you are millennials and some of you are older than me, but I’d be interested if you guys read this article and pitched in your opinions.  I will also pitch in mine in a bit.

https://www.oregonlive.com/entertainment/2019/09/no-kids-today-have-never-heard-of-charlie-chaplin-other-hollywood-golden-age-icons-marking-cultural-shift.html

“I find it obvious yet fascinating how earlier 20th century American megastars like Shirley Temple, Charlie Chaplin, W.C. Fields, etc., who were still present on the periphery of my Gen X childhood imagination, don’t exist on my kids’ radar at all.”

This musing came via Twitter last week from Mat Johnson, lauded novelist and comic-book writer as well as University of Oregon English professor.


The observation, as Johnson himself pointed out, isn’t surprising. And yet it comes with a jolt for anyone who grew up flipping past old Shirley Temple movies and guffawing at The Three Stooges on Saturday morning -- using the dial on the television’s face, of course.

More names unknown to kids today surfaced in the thread that followed Johnson’s tweet: Bob Hope and Charlie McCarthy (that is, ventriloquist Edgar Bergen’s doll), Edward G. Robinson and Buster Keaton.

It’s no surprise that Gen Xers are quite familiar with these long-ago “megastars.” Many of the stars of the 1920s, ’30s and ’40s were still around decades after their heydays, showing up now and again in TV commercials and on late-night talk shows. Looney Tunes was a staple of every Baby Boomer and Gen X childhood, and the cartoons frequently offered nods to and even cameo appearances by early Hollywood Golden Age stars ranging from Fields and Keaton to Laurel and Hardy.


There are various reasons these old-time icons have now tumbled down the cultural memory hole: changing tastes, the explosion of new TV content, the personalization of media that blocks out serendipity.

Most of all, however, it was just W.C. Fields and his contemporaries’ time to go. It’s been nearly a century since they hit their primes. One day, no doubt, this will even happen to the Beatles -- and “Friends.”

So when did this great fade-out happen? We opened up the archives of a handful of major newspapers, including The New York Times and The Wall Street Journal, to search out the publications’ last cultural reference to half a dozen (plus a bonus entry) of the entertainment world’s biggest names from the early 20th century. We looked for organic newsy mentions, meaning we discounted history articles, roundups of film retrospectives, and critics simply trying to sound learned.

What we discovered is that these Golden Age stars, reflexively alluded to for decades, have been effectively gone for a while already. (We could have expanded our search, but as Fields once said: “If at first you don’t succeed, try, try again. Then quit. No use being a damn fool about it.”) Check out a few of the more recent published mentions of these great stars:


1940 Press Photo Charlie Chaplin English Comedian impersonate Adolf Hitler
Charlie Chaplin in "The Great Dictator." (Advance Local archive)

CHARLIE CHAPLIN

The New York Times

Date: July 19, 2015

Article: Profile of English model and actress Cara Delevingne

Reference: “Her rise couldn’t have been more swift or seemingly exuberant, with Karl Lagerfeld calling Ms. Delevingne -- known for making facing and sticking her tongue out -- the ‘Charlie Chaplin of the fashion world.’ ”

W.C. Fields
Patriot-News library

Mae West and W.C. Fields. (Patriot-News library)

W.C. FIELDS

The New York Times

Date: Dec. 19, 2008

Article: A travel story about Oklahoma.

Reference: “W.C. Fields, whose position on water was that he never touched the stuff, would feel supremely left out at Grand Lake o’ the Cherokees, which covers 46,500 acres north, south and west of Grove, Okla.”

Buster Keaton
File Photo

Buster Keaton (MLive.com file photo)

BUSTER KEATON

The New York Times

Date: May 26, 2019

Article: Choreographer Twyla Tharp in conversation with her “Deuce Coupe” dancers

Reference: “I will always be a clown,” Tharp says. “Clowns are very close to God. They know how to get down.” Responds Isabella Boylston: “Oh my God. Is that why you picked me to do your part?” Answers Tharp: “Partially, yes! I knew you had it in you. But I’m still waiting. I’m still waiting for the [Buster] Keaton to get out, but I know that you can do it.”

1971 Press Photo Edward G. Robinson in Little Caesar
Edward G. Robinson in "Little Caesar" (Advance Local archive)

EDWARD G. ROBINSON

The New York Times

Date: July 24, 2016

Article: Letter to the editor about “fathers as caregivers”

Reference: “Having been raised by a mother and grandmother in the 1940s, I based my knowledge of fathers on the ones I saw in the movies. My favorite was Edward G. Robinson in ‘Our Vines Have Tender Grapes’ (1945), who provided his daughter with the three C’s that every child needs: care, concern and compassion. Men incapable of providing these necessities should leave fatherhood to those who can.”


SHIRLEY TEMPLE

Chicago Tribune

Date: August 18, 2019

Article: A Mary Schmich essay about her inheriting her mother’s antique four-poster bed

Reference: “It was the kind of bed I associated with fairy tales and Shirley Temple movies, with medieval princesses and romance. In a bed like that, with those towering posts standing like sentinels at the corners, a girl would have room to dream.”


THE THREE STOOGES

The Wall Street Journal

Date: Sept. 9, 2019

Article: A news story about President Donald Trump’s 2020 primary challengers

Reference: “President Trump dismissed a Republican primary challenge from former South Carolina Gov. Mark Sanford, describing him and two other long-shot GOP opponents as ‘The Three Stooges’ and suggesting he wouldn’t debate them.”

MAE WEST

The Wall Street Journal

Date: July 8, 2019

Article: A news story about the record-breaking pace of home runs in Major League Baseball this season

Reference: " 'Mae West said too much of a good thing is wonderful,’ Thorn said. ‘She wasn’t referring to baseball.’”

-- Douglas Perry

@douglasmperry

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[Dunrobin]

My niece and nephew were certainly exposed to classic movies growing up by both their father and me, but they were never that interested in them and I'll lay odds that they won't know most classic stars - with the exception of the Stooges, since they know ThreeStooges.net is my pride and joy.  (They'd better know the Stooges if they know what's good for them!) 

But they are just as abysmally ignorant of a lot of present-day culture, especially TV.  Both of them are YouTube fanatics.  It's literally just about all they watch, and of course they watch all kinds of weird stuff.  My nephew particularly likes to watch gamers playing (apparently that's a thing.)  But old black-and-white movies?  Forget it; they won't even watch the ones on YouTube.   

[Umbrella Sam]

OK, let me start by saying that I am not fond of this writer's method for studying this problem. Keep in mind that "news" relates to what's current in the world, and the only way to really incorporate these older films into a news story is through nostalgic retrospectives, which was left out of this study. So, I don't find these examples to support the point made.

Now, regarding the question at hand. I graduated from high school 3 years ago, and I had friends both my age and younger who were familiar with the Three Stooges. They were really only familiar with the public domain material, but they did at least have some familiarity with the Three Stooges, and one of my friends was also a big fan of Chaplin's THE GREAT DICTATOR. So, there are millennials aware of Golden Age performers, even if they're just casually aware.

Now, that being said, this author does make some good points as to why the Golden Age performers are not as known as they once were, particularly with his point about the explosion of new TV content. There's a lot available and I think that applies to nostalgia as well. I remember in the late 2000s and early 2010s, there was a lot of nostalgic reminisces about shows and movies from the 1980s, and since then, there seems to have been a boom in nostalgia for shows from the 1990s and early 2000s, with shows like FRIENDS and THE OFFICE being popular choices for binge-watching on Netflix. I'm not saying that the Golden Age performers can't fit into this nostalgic wave, but they already have had their own nostalgic waves like this in the past, like when the Stooges became popular again in the 1960s.

Another point to note is regarding Netflix and other streaming services. Many people are now cutting cable and strictly sticking with streaming services for their choices of content. This means that shows that are on cable or even broadcast television are suffering declining ratings, and television producers have to find new ways to adapt to this change. Looney Tunes has especially suffered from this change. The recent NEW LOONEY TUNES actually managed to capture the spirit of the original Looney Tunes cartoons very well, but because it was released during this major shift in media, episodes got delayed a lot until the show eventually was moved to Cartoon Network's sister channel, Boomerang, and later moved over to Boomerang's streaming app. Even the upcoming LOONEY TUNES CARTOONS, which promises to be even closer to the spirit of the original cartoons, has been delayed from its initial 2019 release and will instead premiere on the HBO Max streaming service, so modern Looney Tunes fans have to go through several different paid options to access certain incarnations of the same characters.

The point I'm trying to make is that media is changing and lots of beloved shows, new or old, are having to find new ways to fit in. This is especially difficult for Golden Age movies and shows because many of them are not available on the major streaming services. Keep in mind that TCM, the one channel truly devoted to this, is a cable channel, so when people cut cable, they're losing access to this. Yes, I'm aware of the existence of the Criterion Channel and the now defunct FilmStruck and, sure, fans could just seek out DVDs or even Blu-Rays. But none of these options are Netflix. None of them are Hulu. None of them are the upcoming Disney+. These are the current popular go-to places for media, at least for younger generations, and very few Golden Age films are available on these streaming services, including Stooges and Laurel and Hardy films. I can't guarantee that putting all these films on the major streaming services will make them as popular as they once were, but it certainly would expand the opportunities they have for discovery.

So, I both agree and disagree with the points in this article. I disagree with the point that "millennials don't know the Stooges" because I know millennials who know the Stooges. However, I do fear that there is a future where this will be possible and there has to be some action taken to keep their presence around for future generations.

[Umbrella Sam]

My niece and nephew were certainly exposed to classic movies growing up by both their father and me, but they were never that interested in them and I'll lay odds that they won't know most classic stars - with the exception of the Stooges, since they know ThreeStooges.net is my pride and joy.  (They'd better know the Stooges if they know what's good for them!) 

But they are just as abysmally ignorant of a lot of present-day culture, especially TV.  Both of them are YouTube fanatics.  It's literally just about all they watch, and of course they watch all kinds of weird stuff.  My nephew particularly likes to watch gamers playing (apparently that's a thing.)  But old black-and-white movies?  Forget it; they won't even watch the ones on YouTube.   

YouTube game videos are indeed very popular, and I enjoy some of them. I like to watch game reviews and Mario Maker videos (the latter mainly to find courses that I can play on my own copy of the game), but I have never understood the craze for simply watching people play games like Minecraft or Fortnite. People also seem to really like unboxing videos for some reason (as in someone opening a package and explaining the contents that are inside).

[metaldams]

My niece and nephew were certainly exposed to classic movies growing up by both their father and me, but they were never that interested in them and I'll lay odds that they won't know most classic stars - with the exception of the Stooges, since they know ThreeStooges.net is my pride and joy.  (They'd better know the Stooges if they know what's good for them!) 

But they are just as abysmally ignorant of a lot of present-day culture, especially TV.  Both of them are YouTube fanatics.  It's literally just about all they watch, and of course they watch all kinds of weird stuff.  My nephew particularly likes to watch gamers playing (apparently that's a thing.)  But old black-and-white movies?  Forget it; they won't even watch the ones on YouTube.   

My nephew is 11 and loves The Three Stooges.  We watched just about every Curly short together this past summer.  He is also into this whole watching people play video games online thing.  It’s regular viewing for him.  For me a few times a year I’ll watch a game I regularly played thirty years ago for nostalgia, but that’s it.  Beyond that, he doesn’t know much about old movies.

Truth be told, I am a regular YouTube guy.  I have my few normal channels I visit daily (Tom Woods, Zetro’s Toxic Vault, Ron Paul Liberty Report) and I always watch various bass guitar covers, concert videos, and old movies.  I freely admit to being ignorant to modern TV culture, the newest show I ever watched regularly was Big Bang Theory.  I’ve been at least seeing modern horror movies in theaters more than I used to.  I found out in the past two years I’m high functioning autistic, so it’s normal for my neurological type to have “unusual interests.” 

[metaldams]

OK, let me start by saying that I am not fond of this writer's method for studying this problem. Keep in mind that "news" relates to what's current in the world, and the only way to really incorporate these older films into a news story is through nostalgic retrospectives, which was left out of this study. So, I don't find these examples to support the point made.

Now, regarding the question at hand. I graduated from high school 3 years ago, and I had friends both my age and younger who were familiar with the Three Stooges. They were really only familiar with the public domain material, but they did at least have some familiarity with the Three Stooges, and one of my friends was also a big fan of Chaplin's THE GREAT DICTATOR. So, there are millennials aware of Golden Age performers, even if they're just casually aware.

Now, that being said, this author does make some good points as to why the Golden Age performers are not as known as they once were, particularly with his point about the explosion of new TV content. There's a lot available and I think that applies to nostalgia as well. I remember in the late 2000s and early 2010s, there was a lot of nostalgic reminisces about shows and movies from the 1980s, and since then, there seems to have been a boom in nostalgia for shows from the 1990s and early 2000s, with shows like FRIENDS and THE OFFICE being popular choices for binge-watching on Netflix. I'm not saying that the Golden Age performers can't fit into this nostalgic wave, but they already have had their own nostalgic waves like this in the past, like when the Stooges became popular again in the 1960s.

Another point to note is regarding Netflix and other streaming services. Many people are now cutting cable and strictly sticking with streaming services for their choices of content. This means that shows that are on cable or even broadcast television are suffering declining ratings, and television producers have to find new ways to adapt to this change. Looney Tunes has especially suffered from this change. The recent NEW LOONEY TUNES actually managed to capture the spirit of the original Looney Tunes cartoons very well, but because it was released during this major shift in media, episodes got delayed a lot until the show eventually was moved to Cartoon Network's sister channel, Boomerang, and later moved over to Boomerang's streaming app. Even the upcoming LOONEY TUNES CARTOONS, which promises to be even closer to the spirit of the original cartoons, has been delayed from its initial 2019 release and will instead premiere on the HBO Max streaming service, so modern Looney Tunes fans have to go through several different paid options to access certain incarnations of the same characters.

The point I'm trying to make is that media is changing and lots of beloved shows, new or old, are having to find new ways to fit in. This is especially difficult for Golden Age movies and shows because many of them are not available on the major streaming services. Keep in mind that TCM, the one channel truly devoted to this, is a cable channel, so when people cut cable, they're losing access to this. Yes, I'm aware of the existence of the Criterion Channel and the now defunct FilmStruck and, sure, fans could just seek out DVDs or even Blu-Rays. But none of these options are Netflix. None of them are Hulu. None of them are the upcoming Disney+. These are the current popular go-to places for media, at least for younger generations, and very few Golden Age films are available on these streaming services, including Stooges and Laurel and Hardy films. I can't guarantee that putting all these films on the major streaming services will make them as popular as they once were, but it certainly would expand the opportunities they have for discovery.

So, I both agree and disagree with the points in this article. I disagree with the point that "millennials don't know the Stooges" because I know millennials who know the Stooges. However, I do fear that there is a future where this will be possible and there has to be some action taken to keep their presence around for future generations.

You make some great points about people ditching cable and going into Netflix and other similar services.  While I have Netflix at my house,  I rarely watch it.  I’ve watched seasons of Frasier and American Horror Story, but that’s about it.

When I was growing up, until about age 6 or 7, I remember having 13 channels.  Then we got a VCR and cable,  but there were maybe 40 or 50 channels.  No Internet either until my later high school years.  So yeah, there were less choices so I suppose culture was more in synch.

The article above is accurate in that my generation grew up on The Three Stooges and Looney Tunes.  No doubt. As far as you knowing people your age into old films, I’m not surprised you knew individuals aware of them, but the generation as a whole, from my experience, seems to know less about black and white (forget about silent  ).  My previous job, which I worked at for six years and helped train several classes of mostly millennials, their knowledge of old film was zilch.  They know Marilyn Monroe but she transcends actress.  Ask them who Groucho or Gable or Joan Crawford are, you’ll get a blank stare.  Your Netflix/media change theory may be sound.

All I know is this.  Not old movies, but older culture, and still newer than The Three Stooges.  When Paul McCartney collaborated with Kanye West a few years back, there were several people on Twitter who thought Kanye was a swell guy for giving this McCartney guy a chance and this Paul guy’s career was about to skyrocket.  Yes, I worked with several people who never heard of The Beatles.

[Paul Pain]

When I was little, there was 80+ years worth of material on maybe 50 channels to watch.  There was only VHS, so only previously popular stuff (Keaton, Stooges, Marx Bros, Cosby, Golden Girls, M*A*S*H*, etc.) got shown.  Now, in this age, we have 100+ years worth of material, and DVD/Blu-Ray makes it so that so much more from everyone's vaults is available.  My issue is that the stuff being churned out today seriously lacks in quality to that of the past, as if they're having to appeal to a less-intelligent crowd... probably due to reduced attention spans.

I was glad Game of Thrones ended.  Every Monday that was all people at my current school would talk about; the conversation was 100% of the time "did you expect that person to die?"  Not very interesting to me...

[metaldams]

When I was little, there was 80+ years worth of material on maybe 50 channels to watch.  There was only VHS, so only previously popular stuff (Keaton, Stooges, Marx Bros, Cosby, Golden Girls, M*A*S*H*, etc.) got shown.  Now, in this age, we have 100+ years worth of material, and DVD/Blu-Ray makes it so that so much more from everyone's vaults is available.  My issue is that the stuff being churned out today seriously lacks in quality to that of the past, as if they're having to appeal to a less-intelligent crowd... probably due to reduced attention spans.

I was glad Game of Thrones ended.  Every Monday that was all people at my current school would talk about; the conversation was 100% of the time "did you expect that person to die?"  Not very interesting to me...

Game of Thrones, great example of what I’m talking about with my current pop culture ignorance.  I’m aware there’s a popular show called Game of Thrones, but I could not tell what genre it is or who is in it.

[Umbrella Sam]

All I know is this.  Not old movies, but older culture, and still newer than The Three Stooges.  When Paul McCartney collaborated with Kanye West a few years back, there were several people on Twitter who thought Kanye was a swell guy for giving this McCartney guy a chance and this Paul guy’s career was about to skyrocket.  Yes, I worked with several people who never heard of The Beatles.

I do recall hearing about that Kanye/McCartney incident. However, I think that the recent trend of "classic rock musical" films has really helped to raise awareness. Queen is really popular in Internet culture right now and I just spoke to a fellow milennial a few days ago who mentioned that ROCKETMAN has really helped bring Elton John back into public consciousness (which is great because I remember back in high school, other students I knew either didn't know Elton John at all or were somewhat familiar with one or two songs that they didn't know were by him).

[Paul Pain]

Game of Thrones, great example of what I’m talking about with my current pop culture ignorance.  I’m aware there’s a popular show called Game of Thrones, but I could not tell what genre it is or who is in it.

I told you basically all I know.  It just seems like a really shallow program that just tries to see how many murders they could cram into a single series.  It's the same issue I have with other modern shows: they seem to be appealing to the lowest possible denominator.  The thing about the shows I remember watching or do watch (shows my mother said she had watched and liked, which says a lot because she HATES TV with a passion for as long as I can remember) is that they have a blend of humor.  The village idiot could appreciate it as well as the local Einstein.

I do recall hearing about that Kanye/McCartney incident. However, I think that the recent trend of "classic rock musical" films has really helped to raise awareness. Queen is really popular in Internet culture right now and I just spoke to a fellow milennial a few days ago who mentioned that ROCKETMAN has really helped bring Elton John back into public consciousness (which is great because I remember back in high school, other students I knew either didn't know Elton John at all or were somewhat familiar with one or two songs that they didn't know were by him).

Another example: it's amazing how many people "like" Pink Floyd and wear Dark Side of the Moon t-shirts... yet so few understand what made them so revolutionary and why they're good.

I think this conversation shows to go that there is definitely a certain approach to life that allows to better appreciate these oldies-but-goodies more than our peers.