Topic: Bonnie Scotland (1935) - Laurel and Hardy

[NoahYoung]

Also, to be clear, my somewhat low opinion of THE FLYING DEUCES is compared to other Laurel and Hardy films. Even a lesser L&H feature is worth watching more than once, and certainly better than many other films from any era that claim to be comedies -- and I have seen it many, many times over the last 50+ years.

[HomokHarcos]

If Jean Arthur appeared with Laurel and Hardy, that would certainly elevate the movie. I have most of the Mae West movies on DVD, so I could discuss those movies if you'd like to at some point.

[metaldams]

If Jean Arthur appeared with Laurel and Hardy, that would certainly elevate the movie. I have most of the Mae West movies on DVD, so I could discuss those movies if you'd like to at some point.

I’ve obviously seen MY LITTLE CHICKADEE, and I saw one of her films, I think SHE DONE HIM WRONG, on TCM maybe fifteen years ago.  Other than that, that’s all I’ve ever seen.  I really should check out more of her stuff.

Her last film, isn’t she almost 80 and flirting with Alice Cooper, Keith Moon and Ringo Starr?  That I gotta see.

[Tony Bensley]

If Jean Arthur appeared with Laurel and Hardy, that would certainly elevate the movie. I have most of the Mae West movies on DVD, so I could discuss those movies if you'd like to at some point.

I think Jean Arthur and Jean Parker even looked somewhat similar, although Jean Arthur was some 15 years Jean Parker's senior!

CHEERS!

[Dr. Mabuse]

Her last film, isn’t she almost 80 and flirting with Alice Cooper, Keith Moon and Ringo Starr?  That I gotta see.

You asked for it. 

[metaldams]

You asked for it. 

Thanks!

[NoahYoung]

BONNIE SCOTLAND really is 2 films -- not just because of the obvious break between the Scotland/civilian scenes and the India/army scenes. The Scotland scenes are slowly paced, badly edited, and badly directed. Once the locale shifts to India, the picture picks up pace and the Boys are back in form. Only dull spots in the second half are when they aren't on screen -- the first half is a bit dull even when they are on screen.

First Half:
Reading of the will scene is awkward. Jokes about Stan's father killing himself are depressing and unfunny. Ollie falls over his bags for no reason (no setup, no anticipation, he just falls -- and in front of a crowd -- embarrassing, not funny). They have a conversation about being in jail -- unfunny, child viewers will think they are bad guys.) The scene with Ollie sneezing all the water out of the pond is kind of juvenile humor. The fish cooking scene is as slow-paced as one of their earliest talkies (e.g. THEY GO BOOM.) The lack of music during these scenes is deafening! The segue into the second half is the Boys mistaking an army recruitment place for a tailor. The writers really took a shortcut here.

Second Half:

The Boys play finger games; play with their hats; have a dancing scene; have run-ins with Finlayson; cause their entire regiment to be out-of-step when marching; the "mirage scene." There is some background music to these scenes. The pacing is great, the Boys deliver their lines comfortably and in-character. Everything "clicks." Only bad part is the very end with the bees, and Stan almost killing himself.

According to the Skredtvedt book, most of this movie was filmed before THICKER THAN WATER. Additional filming and retakes were done after that film. I think this was after the first cut was previewed and they realized the Boys played second-fiddle to the "Alan" character. My personal opinion is that the fish-cooking scene was filmed at this point, rather hurriedly to get the picture out into release. The lack of a music score during this scene supports my "in a rush" theory.

[metaldams]

BONNIE SCOTLAND really is 2 films -- not just because of the obvious break between the Scotland/civilian scenes and the India/army scenes. The Scotland scenes are slowly paced, badly edited, and badly directed. Once the locale shifts to India, the picture picks up pace and the Boys are back in form. Only dull spots in the second half are when they aren't on screen -- the first half is a bit dull even when they are on screen.

First Half:
Reading of the will scene is awkward. Jokes about Stan's father killing himself are depressing and unfunny. Ollie falls over his bags for no reason (no setup, no anticipation, he just falls -- and in front of a crowd -- embarrassing, not funny). They have a conversation about being in jail -- unfunny, child viewers will think they are bad guys.) The scene with Ollie sneezing all the water out of the pond is kind of juvenile humor. The fish cooking scene is as slow-paced as one of their earliest talkies (e.g. THEY GO BOOM.) The lack of music during these scenes is deafening! The segue into the second half is the Boys mistaking an army recruitment place for a tailor. The writers really took a shortcut here.

Second Half:

The Boys play finger games; play with their hats; have a dancing scene; have run-ins with Finlayson; cause their entire regiment to be out-of-step when marching; the "mirage scene." There is some background music to these scenes. The pacing is great, the Boys deliver their lines comfortably and in-character. Everything "clicks." Only bad part is the very end with the bees, and Stan almost killing himself.

According to the Skredtvedt book, most of this movie was filmed before THICKER THAN WATER. Additional filming and retakes were done after that film. I think this was after the first cut was previewed and they realized the Boys played second-fiddle to the "Alan" character. My personal opinion is that the fish-cooking scene was filmed at this point, rather hurriedly to get the picture out into release. The lack of a music score during this scene supports my "in a rush" theory.

I mentioned in an above post it was 30 minutes of romantic couple cut and ten minutes of Stan and Ollie added which I think was mentioned in the audio commentary.  I actually do like the scenes you mentioned but even if I held the same opinion as you of those comedy scenes, I’d still prefer them over that romantic couple.

Never thought about it, but now that you mention it, agreed the jailbird stuff, in this context, may not have been best for their characters.

[NoahYoung]

Oh yes, more Stan and Ollie, even if I think it is sub-par, is definitely better than more romance. Like I have said in other posts, it is sub-par for L&H. It just seems kind of slow. But I don't think they were anticipating people watching these films home alone with a DVR or whatever. I'm sure in a theater the laughs filled the void. I just think when they get to India the film has a lot more energy. I wouldn't be surprised if the 10 minutes put back in were part of the rooming house segment.

If you are going to have romance in the plot, at least resolve it in the end -- not that I think anyone cares. 
That beehive ending really stinks. And to play "Loch Lomond" as the scene and film concludes is weird since they are in India. Maybe they wanted to remind us that the film is titled BONNIE SCOTLAND.

I'm guessing the Scottish village set was left over from perhaps an M-G-M production. For the amount of screen time the village gets, I'm sure cheapo Roach wouldn't have spent much money on it, and if he had, he would have insisted to have more footage of it. Maybe that's part of what they cut out. Roach and Stan were (and a-one, and-a-two...) having issues at the time, but the Skredvedt book has a quote from Roach saying he never had a dispute with the boys over money -- it was always story construction with Stan. So I'm sure they quarreled over what Stan cut out. (Janney claims Stan did the cutting in the Skredvedt book.)

Personally, I would have liked to have seen more scenes in Scotland rather than scenes filmed on a set for the boarding house.

[HomokHarcos]

The part where they are asked for ID and Ollie shows his mugshot is one of my favorite parts of the movie.

[NoahYoung]

Yes, but not explaining what they were arrested for (e.g. vagrancy - ANOTHER FINE MESS, NIGHT OWLS, SCRAM -- bootlegging -- PARDON US, watching a raid -- THE HOOSEGOW) is a fault. There is a gag mugshot from a Hal Roach party in the Skredvedt book showing that Ollie was arrested for being a "golf addict", with his criminal specialty being "carrying concealed golf balls." Now something like that would have been funny in BONNIE SCOTLAND.

[Tony Bensley]

Yes, but not explaining what they were arrested for (e.g. vagrancy - ANOTHER FINE MESS, NIGHT OWLS, SCRAM -- bootlegging -- PARDON US, watching a raid -- THE HOOSEGOW) is a fault. There is a gag mugshot from a Hal Roach party in the Skredvedt book showing that Ollie was arrested for being a "golf addict", with his criminal specialty being "carrying concealed golf balls." Now something like that would have been funny in BONNIE SCOTLAND.

That would have been genius! Another nice twist would have had Stan as Ollie's caddie be guilty by having given him the concealed golf balls!

CHEERS!

[NoahYoung]

BTW, the foreign versions of PARDON US begin with a card after the credits explaining that the U.S. currently made alcohol illegal.
I'm willing to bet that a larger % of the U.S. population drank during Prohibition than now!
I had to explain that to my kids when they were younger that they were in jail for selling beer -- which puzzled them.
So, why did they decide no explanation was necessary in this film?

I have seen synopses where they write that L&H are escaped U.S. convicts who stow away on a cattle boat to get to Scotland.
So misleading since it makes people who have never seen the film think there are scenes that depict this, but it is merely expository.
Case in point: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonnie_Scotland

They look fairly well dressed at the beginning of the film, and carrying luggage.  I wonder what their "quarters" were like on that cattle boat? I wonder if they stowed away in barrels of kippered herring?