Topic: Three Little Pirates (1946)

[Shemp_is_Awesome78]

I have a kind of uneasy feeling about what's to come this Friday--discussing that particular short will be anything but fun....

I'm the only one who has this opinion ( only one), except I actually like Half-Wits Holiday! Because, of Emil Sitka. Because, of the ( Curly-less) pies. Because, of the great gags of them trying to fit in society.

[Larrys#1]

I'm the only one who has this opinion ( only one), except I actually like Half-Wits Holiday! Because, of Emil Sitka. Because, of the ( Curly-less) pies. Because, of the great gags of them trying to fit in society.

Speaking of Emil Sitka... was he the only supporting actor is have worked with all six stooges. Vernon Dent only worked during the Curly and Shemp era. I heard he suffered some sort of blindness. Bud Jamison only worked during the Curly era. I heard he died shortly after CRASH GOES THE HASH. And Christine McIntyre worked during the Curly and Shemp era. From the top of my head, it seems like Emil Sitka was the only one to have worked all the way through the Curly Joe years.... though Emil Sitka just came on board right when Curly got his stroke, so he didn't get a chance to work with Curly for that long.

[BeAStooge]

Speaking of Emil Sitka... was he the only supporting actor is have worked with all six stooges.

Harold "Bill" Brauer, aka Tiny Brauer.

[Paul Pain]

I'm the only one who has this opinion ( only one), except I actually like Half-Wits Holiday! Because, of Emil Sitka. Because, of the ( Curly-less) pies. Because, of the great gags of them trying to fit in society.

Not true... I am going to be very high on this short in a few days.

[metaldams]

My judgement will solely be based on what appears on the screen, I'll just leave it at that for my preview.

[TiskaTaskaBaska]

May I say I love this one purely based on that fact that Wikipedia's note, "a last flash of the great Curly", made me choke up when I read it. Because the shorts before and after this were dreadful; he was so sick but trying so hard; Harry Cohn was an asshole in not letting them have a break so Curly could recover (look what a recovery did for his short appearance in "Hold that Lion"!). And of course he's not on all cylinders in this one; the voice is too strident as he tries to reach his previous high-pitch levels; words are slurred, the eye is droopy, and Moe and Larry are given the fun business usually reserved for Curly. But this short, given those faults, is still magical. The business of trying to get out the jail cell is painful at times, but once they are the wayfarers it is awesome. I love the look on Vernon Dent's face during this whole scene; I've decided I'm going to make and market a birthday card that says, "Could we dispense with the formalities and make with the gifts?" The Maha bit is awesome; Curly is still awesome; a little off, but this is his last great stab. Moe is awesome...."No leak dat?"; "He had some bubblegum but I think he swallowed it", and constantly pushing Larry out of the way. Black Louie's bar scene is awesome; the noise Moe makes when Curly is trying to feel the knives but feels Moe's face instead make me literally choke with laughter the first time I re-heard it. And yeah; the noises Curly makes are not the usual WOOP WOOP WOOP but my god he was trying. And he did it. Shall I reiterate: the last flash or the great Curly.

[BeAStooge]

Harry Cohn was an asshole in not letting them have a break so Curly could recover

That is a myth.  There is little truth to it.

Recently discussed at length in THE MONKEY BUSINESSMEN (1946) thread.  Debunking the myth will also be featured in an upcoming issue of The Three Stooges Journal.

[TiskaTaskaBaska]

That is a myth.  There is little truth to it.

Recently discussed at length in THE MONKEY BUSINESSMEN (1946) thread.  Debunking the myth will also be featured in an upcoming issue of The Three Stooges Journal.

Okay; please fill me in on the truth. Harry Cohn was an asshole, documented by several contract players under his reign. The fact that the Stooges contract gave Columbia rights to their likenesses "in perpetuity" isn't giving Cohn any angel wings; nor the fact that he didn't give the Stooges a raise in 23 years. He kept making shorts with Shemp with stock footage and poor stand-ins and recut pieces from Moe and Larry for years after Shemp's death. All of these things are not in Cohn's favor. When they shut down production on Half Wits Holiday due to Curly's stroke, I understand Cohn went crazy and ordered no breaks or time off. Please give me the truth. I think the nasty stuff is way more documented than his largesse.

[TiskaTaskaBaska]

That is a myth.  There is little truth to it.

Recently discussed at length in THE MONKEY BUSINESSMEN (1946) thread.  Debunking the myth will also be featured in an upcoming issue of The Three Stooges Journal.

Okay; I just read your thing in Money Businessmen; I somewhat stand corrected. But if the stooges had been paid better maybe they wouldn't have moonlighted so much.

[Larrys#1]

Harold "Bill" Brauer, aka Tiny Brauer.

Thanks.

[TiskaTaskaBaska]

And yay!!!!!! I've finally achieved Applehead status!!!

[BeAStooge]

Not talking about Cohn's personality.  Talking about Columbia incorrectly blamed for Curly's illness/retirement.

Regardless... 

The fact that the Stooges contract gave Columbia rights to their likenesses "in perpetuity"

No truth to that whatsoever.  Columbia never had 'trademark' or other likeness-related rights.

nor the fact that he didn't give the Stooges a raise in 23 years.

Somewhat true, they were underpaid as compared to other Hollywood stars. 

But circa $20K for an average of 32 days on-camera work per year at their height... that was good money for part-time work, even by today's standards.  Annualized to a work-year of 260 days, that's $162.5K.

He kept making shorts with Shemp with stock footage and poor stand-ins and recut pieces from Moe and Larry for years after Shemp's death.

• "...years after Shemp's death"?  No.  That situation involved four shorts filmed over 4 separate days, during a three-week period in January 1956.  Done to fulfill a presold 1956 schedule of eight shorts.
• The stock footage remakes produced for 1953 - 1956 release... yes, they're a creative short-cut and a disappointment in that respect.  But that's not about someone's personality, it's about business.  After the war, shorts were increasingly rare bookings by theaters for showcased/evening bills; Saturday matinees were the general rule.  Budgets had to be spread thinner, as box-office revenue and demand for shorts dropped annually.  The bigger question is, why did Columbia continue to produce shorts after 1952?  Because Harry Cohn liked the trio, and stood behind the Shorts Dept. as long as he could.

When they shut down production on Half Wits Holiday due to Curly's stroke, I understand Cohn went crazy and ordered no breaks or time off.

"Went crazy"... unsubstantiated myth.  Are you referring to one of an endless stream of inaccuracies contained in the 2000 bio-fiction TV movie? 

Columbia had presold commitments to theater owners.  A month passed between Curly's stroke/retirement and the boys coming back a month later to film FRIGHT NIGHT.  Known production schedules show that the Stooges' on-camera duties were not grueling or demanding, and they had reasonable & healthy amounts of time off between.

[TiskaTaskaBaska]

Talking about Columbia incorrectly blamed for Curly's illness/retirement.

I have no love for any studio or any studio system. Look at Marilyn Monroe and her career; it was slave work; she got $18,000 for Gentlemen Prefer Blondes while Jane Russell made over $100,000. Look at Star Trek Original Series; the players only got residuals for three reruns and then after that their character likenesses could be used by the studio as they liked without paying the actors; Spock in a beer billboard was the reason Nimoy originally wouldn't sign for the Motion Picture. And Harry Cohn; he was a difficult and awful man; that's how they ran studios I guess. But because that's how it was done doesn't mean he had to be an asswipe, and he was to everyone up to and including Rita Hayworth. No, I didn't take my info from Mel Gibson's movie. I have done a lot of reading on the subject; probably not as much as you. However, I stand by my statements. Moronika has become less fun suddenly. My review stands. I don't care what anyone thinks.

[Kopfy2013]

One of the better shorts of the year. However 1946 was one of the worst years for the Stooges.  I love Moe thanking the guard for smacking Larry.  The other highlights were already mentioned.

Curly was deathly on for this one.

I will give it a seven.

[VaudevilleFan]

That is a myth.  There is little truth to it.

Recently discussed at length in THE MONKEY BUSINESSMEN (1946) thread.  Debunking the myth will also be featured in an upcoming issue of The Three Stooges Journal.

How does that explain why he was sick in the first place? I mean going back to 1944. By the time of the touring and filming schedule in that thread he was already very sick. If the myth is going to be debunked about the cause of his illness, shouldn't we be going back to 1944?

I know it was mentioned that a rest helped him do good in Hold that Lion but he still met an early demise after his retirement. Rest didn't prevent that.

Say, is there any home videos of Curly after his retirement? That would be cool to see.

[BeAStooge]

How does that explain why he was sick in the first place?

As detailed by family accounts, notably Joan's "Curly: An Illustrated Biography of the Superstooge"...  a life of poor diet, alcohol, cigars, excessive nightlife, and little rest.  Habits increasingly indulged after he joined the act, and indulged even further beyond that after his 1940 split from 2nd wife Elaine.

[metaldams]

Well, reading this thread, tomorrow's entry might end up being real interesting.  Look, my name is metaldams, so I read a lot of accounts of destructive rock stars destroying themselves at a young age, so perhaps I'm just used to and accepting of seeing these things happen.  Every year now, at my relatively young age, I find a new rock star to outlive, being a few months shy of Phil Lynott now.  Paul Baloff of Exodus was about the same age as Curly when he had his stroke, and in his case, it was fatal.  Baloff, by all accounts, did not take care of himself either.  You guys who blame Harry Cohn or working conditions, you're entitled to your opinion, I don't begrudge you for it, but I just happen to disagree.  A healthy 42 year old man should be able to handle the workload Curly had, period.  If Curly took better care of himself, he probably would have went on much longer.  The truth hurts sometimes.

[Larrys#1]

I agree. I like Curly, but let's face it. He was immature. He went crazy over women, drank, and spent money like crazy. But look on the bright side..... his immaturity is what helped make him Curly. That's why he played the part so well.

[TiskaTaskaBaska]

Metal, I agree. And I know I coddle my memory of the Stooges and demonize Cohn because I like the Stooges and don't like what I know of Cohn. People have a lot of reasons for self-medicating and living badly, and Curly had some which just don't make sense to us in hindsight -- he thought he was unattractive with his shorn head and his weight. Tell you what, I would have married him in a second for who I've read that he is -- an animal lover who found homes for homeless pets; a dancer; a lover of good food (I would have shown him how to eat well but healthy! It's what I do). But he didn't pick the right kind of women either. But I also know, as a studio head with a star of that magnitude on your hands, you make exceptions; you coddle them, you let them have a break when they have a frigging stroke on the set. Fox did what they could with Marilyn and got a lot more top-grossing movies out of her than they would have if they hadn't given her some latitude. She still ended up dying, but probably later than she would have. It wouldn't have been wrong for Columbia to extend that same latitude to Curly. End of story. Regardless of what he was doing to himself. Stars usually are self-destructive; this is nothing new. And their implosions are only a matter of time.

Can we move on? I want to go back to commenting on people's clothing and dancing abilities.

[Larrys#1]

I did hear about that.... Curly was supposedly very upset about having to shave off his head and was very insecure about it. I heard it bugged him to no end for all those years he had to do it.

[Signor Spumoni]

I think an overlooked aspect of Curly's health is genetic predisposition.  Certainly his way of living helped drive him to an early grave as high living has done to many people famous, infamous and average.  But having a tendency toward, say, hypertension, may express itself in one person but not necessarily in his siblings. 
Also, healthcare was less sophisticated in this period.  Diabetes was all but a death sentence, and cancer was a death sentence.  I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that Curly developed type 2 diabetes even at a young age.  That disease is hard on every organ.  Hypertension, left untreated, is a leading cause of stroke.  And so on.  For Curly, I think it was a combination of overwork, high living and undiagnosed/improperly treated disorders.

[Bum]

I was gonna mention that as well. Simply put: Some people are born with an earlier "expiration date" than others, and perhaps Curly was one of those people. Combine that with some bad habits and you have death at age 48. I definitely don't think "high living" was the lone cause of Curly's health problems. A contributing factor, for sure, but not the only reason. Getting back to the "rock star" analogy, we now have countless guys still alive [some, albeit, in body only ] who abused themselves way worse and way longer than Curly [IE Gregg, Keef, Ozzy, Lemmy, etc etc]. Some of these guys have now reached the "seventy" mark, and they're STILL performing!

And as for the studio and their way of handling things, it's VERY easy to look back on something that happened sixty years ago and say "They shoulda/ woulda/ coulda.......", and to pretend like we know everything that went on back then, but the fact is we DONT know everything, and we were not there. To look back now and say for sure what someone should or should not have done is foolish.......

[metaldams]

Metal, I agree. And I know I coddle my memory of the Stooges and demonize Cohn because I like the Stooges and don't like what I know of Cohn. People have a lot of reasons for self-medicating and living badly, and Curly had some which just don't make sense to us in hindsight -- he thought he was unattractive with his shorn head and his weight. Tell you what, I would have married him in a second for who I've read that he is -- an animal lover who found homes for homeless pets; a dancer; a lover of good food (I would have shown him how to eat well but healthy! It's what I do). But he didn't pick the right kind of women either. But I also know, as a studio head with a star of that magnitude on your hands, you make exceptions; you coddle them, you let them have a break when they have a frigging stroke on the set. Fox did what they could with Marilyn and got a lot more top-grossing movies out of her than they would have if they hadn't given her some latitude. She still ended up dying, but probably later than she would have. It wouldn't have been wrong for Columbia to extend that same latitude to Curly. End of story. Regardless of what he was doing to himself. Stars usually are self-destructive; this is nothing new. And their implosions are only a matter of time.

Can we move on? I want to go back to commenting on people's clothing and dancing abilities.

Tiska, we'll just agree to disagree on a few things, no biggie.  I'm sure the conversation will carry over into the next short, (though I don't plan to bring it up), but beyond that, I can't foresee it carrying on into the Shemp shorts.  We'll have plenty of time to wonder what kind of conditioner Shemp uses.

[Shemp_Diesel]

We'll have plenty of time to wonder what kind of conditioner Shemp uses.

Heh, not only that, but as we crack open the Shemp years that means no doubt the "Ed Bernds vs. Jules White" debate will rage on....   

[Shemp_is_Awesome78]

Heh, not only that, but as we crack open the Shemp years that means no doubt the "Ed Bernds vs. Jules White" debate will rage on....   

Ed Bernds...... Yep, I just started that....