Soitenly
Moronika
The community forum of ThreeStooges.net

Our Gang/The Little Rascals thread

0 Members and 11 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Tony Bensley

Regarding the MGMs, they were in the beginning well-intentioned, but are mostly as unwatchable as many of the Joe Stooges shorts.
Viewing these in chronological order, I found the quality went downhill as more of the Hal Roach holdovers departed, and more inappropriately (For comedy!) themed stories were introduced, that fell into the public service and MGM "Crime Does Not Pay" series realm.  After George "Spanky" McFarland's late 1942 departure, the long running 'Our Gang' series was effectively finished, in my opinion!  It was at this time that the "fruits" of MGM's generally poor casting of new 'Our Gang' members became dreadfully obvious, with Billy "Buckwheat" Thomas the only remaining Hal Roach holdover, who was also hardly the Gang leader (Unlike Roach, MGM was very much a segregated Movie Studio!), as Spanky had been!

CHEERS!  [pie]


Offline stoogerascalfan62

I have a documentary on the OG/LR troupe myself. Wonder how many docs on the Gang have been done.
It was "The Our Gang Story", probably done in the '90s, haven't seen it in some time. The Narrator was someone named Mike Eagan.


Offline mjkings

You can get all but 10 Our Gang silent on video. They are lost


Offline CurlyFan1934

You can get all but 10 Our Gang silent on video. They are lost
Where can you get them on video? Are they on Amazon or something?


Offline 7stooges

7Stooges, are you still around?  I know StoogesRascals fan is still here.  What do you two think of the MGM shorts?  Everyone else is welcome to opine, too.
Be prepared, lots to say here!

Well, I think that the main issue was that MGM didn't see the true value in 'Our Gang.' They saw some value - it was a popular, established name that could make the studio money. Gradually, MGM also began using that name as a way to shove public service announcements, patriotic messages, and mini Busby Berkely-style musicals down the throats of audiences.

The Our Gang kids are no longer the fun-loving mischief makers from the '20s and '30s. Now, they're mini-Andy Hardy's and would-be Shirley Temples, always trying to be good little American citizens who chastise other kids for doing the wrong thing. In DON'T LIE, for instance, Spanky scolds Buckwheat for lying. What is he, Buckwheat's mother? Buckwheat himself became little more than a one-note racial stereotype, getting the occasional "feets, do yo' stuff" style lines here and there. And if the kids did goof up, why, there would always be an overly-serious adult on hand to lecture them (and the audience) on good behavior.

Audiences were presented with instructional films on traffic safety, lessons on telling the truth, and Wartime information, such as the importance of rationing. Every third or fourth short seemed to be an MGM musical - especially after the War hit. Froggy's uncle (Walter Wills) would be on hand to coax the Gang into putting on over-the-top stage productions for the troops. The principal gangsters were usually overshadowed by a group of unnatural song-and-dance kids trained by choreographer Bud Murray.

I felt that the first season or so of MGM shorts was fine, for the most part. When Roach sold the Gang to Metro, he sent director Gordon Douglas and writer Hal Law and Anthony Mack (Robert McGowan's nephew) with them. Douglas was sadly let go after only the third short, ALADDIN'S LANTERN. He was replaced by George Sidney, who did a fine job - certainly for someone in his early 20s. His younger age may have given him a better rapport with the kids.

Sidney was replaced the following year by Edward Cahn, who was responsible for bringing Robert Blake into the cast. Cahn would later be succeeded by Herbert Glazer, Sam Baerwitz (who had previously directed Curly in ROAST-BEEF AND MOVIES), and others. By that point, finding a suitable director for 'Our Gang' became less about someone who worked well with kids and more about "who on the lot isn't busy?" None of these people were particularly experience in director kids - or comedy.

Hal Law and Anthony Mack were surprisingly kept with the series until the very end. While one could easily blame the quality of the scripts on them, keep in mind that they didn't have the final say - MGM did. Or rather, shorts division heads Jack Chertok and Richard Goldstone had the final say. One can assume that Chertok and Goldstone took the MGM formula and sort of forced Law and Mack to abide by it. I recently spoke with Anthony Mack's daughter, and she told me that her dad, unsurprisingly, really didn't like working at MGM. Towards the end of the series' run, one gets a sense that Law and Mack are crying, "we don't care anymore!" A perfect example is the last scene in FAMILY TROUBLES. Being that this was still technically a comedy series, it made sense to try to end each short on a joke. Here's what we got this time -
Froggy: All's well that ends well, I say.
Byron Shores: Froggy, Shakespeare said that.
Froggy: He did? Shucks!

There's no joke here.



The 'Our Gang' kids themselves (both the ones from the Roach and the ones MGM added) didn't seem to be enjoying themselves, for the most part. Some possible examples are Darla Hood and Janet Burston whenever they got a chance to sing, and Tommy "Butch" Bond. Being a freelance actor who worked at just about every major studio in Hollywood, Tommy seemed pretty accustomed to the 'studio system' and giving directors exactly what they wanted. He comes off as one of the stronger forces during this period.

Performances come off as unnatural, dialogue is often shouted, and musical numbers seem like the last thing any of these kids one to do (again, with the possible exception of Darla and Janet). As I said, the new directors chosen for the series may not have been the best fit for getting good performances from kids that weren't really trained in the professional sense.

MGM also had a habit of keeping the 'Our Gang' kids on past their prime, and failing to give them new costumes! You'll see Alfalfa and Buckwheat near puberty, and literally bursting out of their clothes.

In my opinion, The best MGMs are - in chronological order:
THE LITTLE RANGER
ALADDIN'S LANTERN
ALFALFA'S AUNT
DUEL PERSONALITIES
THE BIG PREMIERE
BUBBLING TROUBLES
GOIN' FISHIN'
KIDDIE KURE
COME BACK, MISS PIPPS
GOING TO PRESS
MIGHTY LAK A GOAT
DANCING ROMEO

The worst - again in chronological order -
TINY TROUBLES
TIME OUT FOR LESSONS
ALL ABOUT HASH
THE NEW PUPIL
GOOD BAD BOYS
YE OLDE MINSTRELS
1-2-3 GO!
DOIN' THEIR BIT
Most of the post-Spankys.


Offline Curly Van Dyke

The Throbbing Cake-Those Bweep-Bwow!!! noises are hilarious. They used them a few more times in Our Gang.
I remember a scene when Spanky and Cotton emerge from a Lunch Counter with Huge Bellies and bump into
each other accompanied by a BWOW!!!!


Offline 7stooges


Offline CurlyFan1934

Long-lost 'Our Gang' film "The Old Wallop" is now on YouTube!


No way! I haven't seen many of the silents but I am familiar with the cast and if I do recall there are a couple of their shorts that have been lost for quite a while and this must have been one of them. I'll probably end up checking out this short. What year is it from?


Offline 7stooges

No way! I haven't seen many of the silents but I am familiar with the cast and if I do recall there are a couple of their shorts that have been lost for quite a while and this must have been one of them. I'll probably end up checking out this short. What year is it from?
1927.

As of now, only five of the silents are known to be completely lost - YALE VS. HARVARD, HEEBEE JEEBIES, EDISON, MARCONI & CO., GROWING PAINS, and THE HOLY TERROR.


Offline CurlyFan1934

Yes. I have heard about these lost silent shorts from the Leonard Maltin book and the one that really stood out to me was Yale vs. Harvard being the concept of a football game and I would have been curious to see how the kids played the gags off. If this movie was around, it would probably be a football pre-game staple.


Offline stoogerascalfan62


Offline stoogerascalfan62


Offline Tony Bensley

Be prepared, lots to say here!

Well, I think that the main issue was that MGM didn't see the true value in 'Our Gang.' They saw some value - it was a popular, established name that could make the studio money. Gradually, MGM also began using that name as a way to shove public service announcements, patriotic messages, and mini Busby Berkely-style musicals down the throats of audiences.

The Our Gang kids are no longer the fun-loving mischief makers from the '20s and '30s. Now, they're mini-Andy Hardy's and would-be Shirley Temples, always trying to be good little American citizens who chastise other kids for doing the wrong thing. In DON'T LIE, for instance, Spanky scolds Buckwheat for lying. What is he, Buckwheat's mother? Buckwheat himself became little more than a one-note racial stereotype, getting the occasional "feets, do yo' stuff" style lines here and there. And if the kids did goof up, why, there would always be an overly-serious adult on hand to lecture them (and the audience) on good behavior.

Audiences were presented with instructional films on traffic safety, lessons on telling the truth, and Wartime information, such as the importance of rationing. Every third or fourth short seemed to be an MGM musical - especially after the War hit. Froggy's uncle (Walter Wills) would be on hand to coax the Gang into putting on over-the-top stage productions for the troops. The principal gangsters were usually overshadowed by a group of unnatural song-and-dance kids trained by choreographer Bud Murray.

I felt that the first season or so of MGM shorts was fine, for the most part. When Roach sold the Gang to Metro, he sent director Gordon Douglas and writer Hal Law and Anthony Mack (Robert McGowan's nephew) with them. Douglas was sadly let go after only the third short, ALADDIN'S LANTERN. He was replaced by George Sidney, who did a fine job - certainly for someone in his early 20s. His younger age may have given him a better rapport with the kids.

Sidney was replaced the following year by Edward Cahn, who was responsible for bringing Robert Blake into the cast. Cahn would later be succeeded by Herbert Glazer, Sam Baerwitz (who had previously directed Curly in ROAST-BEEF AND MOVIES), and others. By that point, finding a suitable director for 'Our Gang' became less about someone who worked well with kids and more about "who on the lot isn't busy?" None of these people were particularly experience in director kids - or comedy.

Hal Law and Anthony Mack were surprisingly kept with the series until the very end. While one could easily blame the quality of the scripts on them, keep in mind that they didn't have the final say - MGM did. Or rather, shorts division heads Jack Chertok and Richard Goldstone had the final say. One can assume that Chertok and Goldstone took the MGM formula and sort of forced Law and Mack to abide by it. I recently spoke with Anthony Mack's daughter, and she told me that her dad, unsurprisingly, really didn't like working at MGM. Towards the end of the series' run, one gets a sense that Law and Mack are crying, "we don't care anymore!" A perfect example is the last scene in FAMILY TROUBLES. Being that this was still technically a comedy series, it made sense to try to end each short on a joke. Here's what we got this time -
Froggy: All's well that ends well, I say.
Byron Shores: Froggy, Shakespeare said that.
Froggy: He did? Shucks!

There's no joke here.



The 'Our Gang' kids themselves (both the ones from the Roach and the ones MGM added) didn't seem to be enjoying themselves, for the most part. Some possible examples are Darla Hood and Janet Burston whenever they got a chance to sing, and Tommy "Butch" Bond. Being a freelance actor who worked at just about every major studio in Hollywood, Tommy seemed pretty accustomed to the 'studio system' and giving directors exactly what they wanted. He comes off as one of the stronger forces during this period.

Performances come off as unnatural, dialogue is often shouted, and musical numbers seem like the last thing any of these kids one to do (again, with the possible exception of Darla and Janet). As I said, the new directors chosen for the series may not have been the best fit for getting good performances from kids that weren't really trained in the professional sense.

MGM also had a habit of keeping the 'Our Gang' kids on past their prime, and failing to give them new costumes! You'll see Alfalfa and Buckwheat near puberty, and literally bursting out of their clothes.

In my opinion, The best MGMs are - in chronological order:
THE LITTLE RANGER
ALADDIN'S LANTERN
ALFALFA'S AUNT
DUEL PERSONALITIES
THE BIG PREMIERE
BUBBLING TROUBLES
GOIN' FISHIN'
KIDDIE KURE
COME BACK, MISS PIPPS
GOING TO PRESS
MIGHTY LAK A GOAT
DANCING ROMEO

The worst - again in chronological order -
TINY TROUBLES
TIME OUT FOR LESSONS
ALL ABOUT HASH
THE NEW PUPIL
GOOD BAD BOYS
YE OLDE MINSTRELS
1-2-3 GO!
DOIN' THEIR BIT
Most of the post-Spankys.
In my opinion, the above is pretty much spot on.  Yes, the post Spanky shorts, save DANCING ROMEO (1944) (Which was ironically, the last 'Our Gang' short to be released!), leaned rather heavily towards being downright dreadful from BENJAMIN FRANKLIN, JR. (1943), onward.  Among these last MGM entries, Leonard Maltin has described LITTLE MISS PINKERTON (1943) as being just about a reel too long - In itself a rather scathing (But in my opinion, well deserved!) indictment for a one reeler!

For me, Janet Burston never displayed any real acting ability in the MGM 'Our Gang' series, although some others who have seen Janet perform in other films outside the 'Our Gang' realm, have indicated otherwise, one of whom took rather strong exception to my admittedly harsh opinion that she simply wasn't a very good actress!  Perhaps Janet might have fared better at the Hal Roach Studios, where keeping the performances natural as possible for their child actors was priority?  Who knows?

CHEERS!  :)


Offline CurlyFan1934

I don't think that anybody has mentioned this in the thread yet, but I found out at a Sons of the Desert meeting about a year ago that Jerry Tucker passed away. I always thought that he was the best "snobby rich-kid" in The Little Rascals and he truly was able to bounce off of the other kid cast members and be a good villain.


Offline 7stooges

Some news from film preservationist Robin Cook:

Quote
Our DVD of YOUR OWN BACK YARD and THE LOVE BUG is now ready to pre-order for release on December 5th. 2018! The DVD also includes a two-minute clip of Hal Roach talking a little bit about YOUR OWN BACK YARD. The films have been digitally restored, and have musical scores by Ben Model. The Price is $12.50 + $6.00 airmail to the U.S.A. including postage and packing. For the United Kingdom, the price is £8.00 + £3.00 postage and packing. The rest of the world price is the same as the U.S.A. If you are paying via PayPal, you should select U.S. dollars for all countries except the United Kingdom when it should be in G.B. Pounds. The payment address for PayPal is rjc35@hotmail.com. If you would like to know more details, please e-mail me with the subject heading "YOBY DVD" at rjc35@hotmail.com--Or it may be better if you post any questions on this forum. I know I've said in the past that GIANTS Vs. YANKS will also be released, but that will be on the next release. I'll try to post pictures of the DVD and cover on this thread and also do a short video on YouTube showing part of the restored films.

Robin of C-W Films Restoration - Better Presentation releases.

DVD cover and sample screenshots are below.


Offline metaldams

Some news from film preservationist Robin Cook:

DVD cover and sample screenshots are below.


Thanks for the heads up.  Would be cool if a bigger set was released, but I also understand these restorations take time and money, not to mention a limited market, so I need to be thankful for what there is.

Based on what I have seen, I would say as a whole, at this point, I prefer silent Our Gang to talking,
- Doug Sarnecky


Offline Marshall

Since the Moe Howard Mike Douglas Show appearances are on YouTube, does anyone here on the board recall Spanky McFarland and Darla Hood's appearance on Mike's program that same year? Spanky was a guest, and Darla was a surprise guest that Spanky didn't know was going to be on the show. I remember before he was introduced,, the show played the clip of  Spanky's "going bug huntin'" sequence from the 1933 "Spanky" Our Gang film. I've never seen that particular Mike Douglas Show since it's airing, and wondering if perhaps a copy was never saved of the program.

Marshall


Offline hiramhorwitz

Since the Moe Howard Mike Douglas Show appearances are on YouTube, does anyone here on the board recall Spanky McFarland and Darla Hood's appearance on Mike's program that same year? Spanky was a guest, and Darla was a surprise guest that Spanky didn't know was going to be on the show. I remember before he was introduced,, the show played the clip of  Spanky's "going bug huntin'" sequence from the 1933 "Spanky" Our Gang film. I've never seen that particular Mike Douglas Show since it's airing, and wondering if perhaps a copy was never saved of the program.

Marshall

I remember that Mike Douglas Show episode well, and have an audio recording of the show I made using my dad's reel-to-reel tape recorder.  Although I haven't listened to the recording in years, I know exactly where it is, and would be happy to digitize it and post an MP3 of it on this site, if you or others have any interest in listening to it.  As you probably recall, comedian Robert Klein was the co-host that week and performed his Our Gang parody which appeared on his Child of the Fifties record album.  And Darla sang (somewhat offkey, if memory serves me correctly), and of course, Spanky and Darla reminiced about their days making the Our Gang comedies.  IMDB identifies the air date of that particular Mike Douglas Show episode as November 8, 1973.  Here's the publicity shot highlighting Spanky and Darla's appearance with Mike that day.


Offline Moose Malloy

Darla is unrecognizable in the Mike Douglas photo. I wonder what happened to her? Young adult photo below


In the clip below, only 15 years or so before the Douglas show she was on The Jack Benny program with Groucho  (8:50)



Who is that lady in the second half of the skit? A tall, stern character actress in a jillion TV shows in the 60s/70s ???





Offline hiramhorwitz

Darla is unrecognizable in the Mike Douglas photo. I wonder what happened to her?

Who is that lady in the second half of the skit? A tall, stern character actress in a jillion TV shows in the 60s/70s ???

My guess is that working full time starting at age 2 (likely supporting one or more parents and/or alternative family members) and then being a has-been most of one's adult life has a significant aging effect on any individual.

Although I'm not 100% sure which tall, stern character actress you're referring to, it's clear that Irene Tedrow is the female accompanying Jack Benny while being questioned by Groucho.   Tedrow's TV appearances spanned forty years, from 1949 to 1989.


Offline Moose Malloy

My guess is that working full time starting at age 2 (likely supporting one or more parents and/or alternative family members) and then being a has-been most of one's adult life has a significant aging effect on any individual.

Although I'm not 100% sure which tall, stern character actress you're referring to, it's clear that Irene Tedrow is the female accompanying Jack Benny while being questioned by Groucho.   Tedrow's TV appearances spanned forty years, from 1949 to 1989.

Thanks. That's who I was referring to. The last I remember of her was on Andy Griffith as the town gossip that pissed off Aunt Bee all the time.


Offline Marshall

I remember that Mike Douglas Show episode well, and have an audio recording of the show I made using my dad's reel-to-reel tape recorder.  Although I haven't listened to the recording in years, I know exactly where it is, and would be happy to digitize it and post an MP3 of it on this site, if you or others have any interest in listening to it.  As you probably recall, comedian Robert Klein was the co-host that week and performed his Our Gang parody which appeared on his Child of the Fifties record album.  And Darla sang (somewhat offkey, if memory serves me correctly), and of course, Spanky and Darla reminiced about their days making the Our Gang comedies.  IMDB identifies the air date of that particular Mike Douglas Show episode as November 8, 1973.  Here's the publicity shot highlighting Spanky and Darla's appearance with Mike that day.
hiramhorwitz, I would be grateful if you could digitize the recording and post an MP3 of it on this site. Thanks for posting the promo photo of Mike, Spanky, and Darla, too.  Funny, I remember the appearance of Spanky and Darla (first time they appeared together in 30 years), but have no recollection of Yoko Ono being on the program. And this is from a big Beatles fan.  BTW, I'd be curious to know who was the source of the Moe video from his Mike Douglas Show appearances. Before YouTube, I remember those videos were available in collector's circles. As I mentioned before, I've never seen any video available of The Mike Douglas Show with Spanky and Darla.

Marshall


Offline hiramhorwitz

hiramhorwitz, I would be grateful if you could digitize the recording and post an MP3 of it on this site. Thanks for posting the promo photo of Mike, Spanky, and Darla, too.  Funny, I remember the appearance of Spanky and Darla (first time they appeared together in 30 years), but have no recollection of Yoko Ono being on the program. And this is from a big Beatles fan.  BTW, I'd be curious to know who was the source of the Moe video from his Mike Douglas Show appearances. Before YouTube, I remember those videos were available in collector's circles. As I mentioned before, I've never seen any video available of The Mike Douglas Show with Spanky and Darla.

Here is a link for the audio recording of the show:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1uvVWNzjB3KQxsglLQ428WOrBP4qwc7mC

Here are the time markings corresponding to a couple of the show's highlights:

17:23 to 35:50 minutes for the primary Spanky and Darla content; 39:20 to 43:15 minutes for Robert Klein's Our Gang parody; and 57:42 minutes to 1:03:00 hours for Yoko's musical performance.  Note that my tape deck started having problems as Yoko completed her song (was that a coincidence or just due to Yoko's tonal qualities?), and the problem reached a peak at about the 1:06 hour mark, when Spanky mentioned his upcoming appearance at the Walnut Street Theatre in Philly.  As it is very difficult to discern Spanky's words during this portion of the recording, I have attached a flyer for the Walnut Street Theatre appearance, which provides most of the important information about Spanky's show.

I believe that four out of five of Moe's 1973-1974 appearances on the Mike Douglas Show are readily available for viewing today because someone coughed up the rather high fee to have Group W Productions transfer the episodes from their one inch videotape originals to "current" formats.  Seems like the fee was around $1200 per episode, and that was about 20 years ago.  Unfortunately, the episode containing Moe's final appearance (the one with Jon Voight and Donny Osmond) was apparently lost, so as far as I know, that one is missing from the set.  The other four Moe episodes include:  1) Ted Knight as co-host; 2) Soupy Sales as co-host; 3) Roger Miller as co-host; and 4) Richard Lamparski (I can't remember if he was the co-host or just a single day guest).  Happily, I was lucky enough to attend the show featuring Moe and Soupy Sales, sitting in the audience next to Larry Fine's brother Morris and directly behind Moe's wife Helen.  What a day that was, getting the opportunity to hang out with Moe, Helen, and Morris for about 30 minutes following completion of the taping.  The good old days!

 



Offline Marshall

Here is a link for the audio recording of the show:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1uvVWNzjB3KQxsglLQ428WOrBP4qwc7mC

Here are the time markings corresponding to a couple of the show's highlights:

17:23 to 35:50 minutes for the primary Spanky and Darla content; 39:20 to 43:15 minutes for Robert Klein's Our Gang parody; and 57:42 minutes to 1:03:00 hours for Yoko's musical performance.  Note that my tape deck started having problems as Yoko completed her song (was that a coincidence or just due to Yoko's tonal qualities?), and the problem reached a peak at about the 1:06 hour mark, when Spanky mentioned his upcoming appearance at the Walnut Street Theatre in Philly.  As it is very difficult to discern Spanky's words during this portion of the recording, I have attached a flyer for the Walnut Street Theatre appearance, which provides most of the important information about Spanky's show.

I believe that four out of five of Moe's 1973-1974 appearances on the Mike Douglas Show are readily available for viewing today because someone coughed up the rather high fee to have Group W Productions transfer the episodes from their one inch videotape originals to "current" formats.  Seems like the fee was around $1200 per episode, and that was about 20 years ago.  Unfortunately, the episode containing Moe's final appearance (the one with Jon Voight and Donny Osmond) was apparently lost, so as far as I know, that one is missing from the set.  The other four Moe episodes include:  1) Ted Knight as co-host; 2) Soupy Sales as co-host; 3) Roger Miller as co-host; and 4) Richard Lamparski (I can't remember if he was the co-host or just a single day guest).  Happily, I was lucky enough to attend the show featuring Moe and Soupy Sales, sitting in the audience next to Larry Fine's brother Morris and directly behind Moe's wife Helen.  What a day that was, getting the opportunity to hang out with Moe, Helen, and Morris for about 30 minutes following completion of the taping.  The good old days!

hiramhorwitz,
Many thanks for posting the link for The Mike Douglas Show with Spanky McFarland, Darla Hood and more. I appreciate it so much. You were so fortunate to attend the show featuring Moe and Soupy Sales, and then getting to hang out with Moe, Helen, and Morris  after the taping. Wow!   Thanks, too, for the answering my question about the origin of the source for the Douglas shows with Moe that have been in collector's circles. Honestly, I don't remember Moe's appearance with Jon Voight and Donny Osmond on The Mike Douglas. I would have liked to have seen it.

Marshall


Offline hiramhorwitz

hiramhorwitz,
Many thanks for posting the link for The Mike Douglas Show with Spanky McFarland, Darla Hood and more.

Honestly, I don't remember Moe's appearance with Jon Voight and Donny Osmond on The Mike Douglas. I would have liked to have seen it.


No problem, Marshall.  Your interest in the audio prompted me to finally digitize my 46 year old reel-to-reel tape - something I should have done years ago!

As I recall, Moe's Voight/Osmond Mike Douglas Show episode didn't air on the Philly station for some reason, so I ended up viewing it on the NYC affiliate station, which was located sufficiently far away that the picture and audio were barely decipherable and constantly fading in and out.  Nonetheless, I caught the bulk of Moe's antics, where he played the role of a surgeon and extracted Donny Osmond from the chest of his horizontal patient.  At least, that's my recollection of what happened!