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Our Gang/The Little Rascals thread

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Offline Signor Spumoni

Yeah, especially a channel geared towards kids.

I agree with both of you.  I wonder why no one does.

SIA, do you plan to watch "Arbor Day" on Arbor day (24.April)?  I do.  I'm sure you love the part where Buckwheat forgets his line but is very pleased when his mother says it. 


Offline Shemp_is_Awesome78

I agree with both of you.  I wonder why no one does.

SIA, do you plan to watch "Arbor Day" on Arbor day (24.April)?  I do.  I'm sure you love the part where Buckwheat forgets his line but is very pleased when his mother says it.
Yes! The Arbor Day episode is actually the last two reel short the Gang made for Hal Roach. That short certainly is a classic, and I do enjoy the part that you mentioned.
Abbottt: Stop smoking in here, Costello!
Costello: What makes you think I'm smoking?
Abbott: You have a cigar in your mouth!
Costello: I got my shoes on, but I'm not walking!


Offline stoogerascalfan62

Wasn't Our Gang Follies Of 1938 the last 2-reeler the Gang did for Roach?


Offline Shemp_is_Awesome78

Wasn't Our Gang Follies Of 1938 the last 2-reeler the Gang did for Roach?
Yes, and I also believe it was one of Hal Roach's last two-reelers, too!
Abbottt: Stop smoking in here, Costello!
Costello: What makes you think I'm smoking?
Abbott: You have a cigar in your mouth!
Costello: I got my shoes on, but I'm not walking!


Offline 7stooges

Favorite Our Gang short - that's a toughie. Each era of the series had at least one that really stood out. "Teacher's Pet" is a classic, a perfect blend of storytelling, comedy, memorable characters, and even a little bit of drama. Anything with toddler Spanky is great in my book. The Scotty Beckett years are especially delightful. The Spanky-Alfalfa years of the mid-late 30s are the ones people seem to find most recognizable (and marketable - I have yet to see any Wheezer Hutchins merchandise!). Yes, even the MGM era has a few (and I do mean "a few") gems.

I've been fortunate enough to see the majority of the silent shorts, and find them quite enjoyable. Though I did feel there was a minor void in the series after Mickey Daniels left. The addition of Jackie Cooper in the early sound era filled that hole. And Spanky McFarland filled it again after Cooper left.

As far as favorite Rascals go... that's not much easier to decide on. Each kid brought something special to the table. But I had to choose a favorite, I'd probably go with Stymie. As soon as he enters a scene you can't help but smile.

A few points/responses to the discussion:
- Leonard Maltin's book (by the way, co-author Dick Bann deserves A LOT of credit for the behind the scenes information featured) is definitely worth picking up. The only downside is that it hasn't been updated in over 20 years (about the same amount of time Our Gang ran in theaters!) A nice companion piece to the book is this very informative website put together by Bob DeMoss. It hasn't been updated in some time, but last I heard Mr. DeMoss is planning on putting his new findings into a book of his own.
http://theluckycorner.com

- Speaking of books, one on Alfalfa is currently in the works. I'm hoping it will show people just how much of a talent he was. I would recommend checking out one of the films Alfie (as his friends affectionately called him) made as an adult. He was a darn good character actor, and probably could have done bigger things if he had lived longer.

- As for Alfie's death, it is believed by many that no knife was ever pulled. Rather, Bud Stiltz (the man who shot Alfie) committed murder. Stiltz was the only one who made the knife claim; all other witnesses had no recollection of Alfie pulling any sort of a weapon. A knife was found near Alfie's body, but it  is believed that if fell out of his pocket. Whatever the case, the court ruled Stiltz acted in self-defense. Still quite sad.

- For the most part, the kids all got along fine. Spanky and Alfalfa were actually pretty chummy. On the other hand, their fathers loathed each other. You see, Spanky had been the series' biggest star before Alfalfa came along. Some form of jealousy was bound to show up - though rarely from the kids. I don't think many of them even knew that they were such big stars.

- The Our Gang impostors is a rather confusing topic. There were several Our Gang knock-offs produced during the silent era (Mickey McGuire, Hey Fellas!, Buster Brown, McDougall Alley Kids, Big Boy - the latter of which was produced by the White brothers). None of these series had a strong legacy. But because Our Gang still remains popular, it's easy for ex-child actors from these rival series to assume they were one of Roach's Rascals. One fellow, actor-producer 'Lucky' Brown, insists that he was an Our Ganger. But he has recollections of appearing in the shorts with Mickey Rooney. Conclusion: he was part of the McGuire gang.

Additionally, the Roach staff sent out a script to various small towns so that they could produce their own independent Our Gang film. This is where the female Farina came into play. A local city hired her to portray Farina in a fake Our Gang short. But how was she to know it was fake?

Bill English is a different case. From what I've heard, he actually had a mental illness that him believe he really was Buckwheat. Another sad story. He's since passed on.

Not sure what the story behind "The Our Gang Band" was.

- I've seen several of the McGuire comedies. If you're into surreal films that aren't especially funny (but somewhat memorable), check them out. The series was actually based on a popular comic strip (Toonerville Folks). The silent entries are the strangest - they rely heavily on cartoonish gags. The same sort of gags found in Larry Semon comedies (the late Semon was apparently a gag writer for McGuire). The talkies were clearly made on a lower budget. A few Rascals showed up in these shorts - Breezy Brisbane, Shirley Jean Rickert, and Donald Haines, among others. Chubby Chaney also reportedly appeared in  one shortly after leaving Our Gang.

- The Baby Burlesks, on the other hand, are pretty uncomfortable to watch. That's all I'll say.

- Jules White did try to copy Our Gang in 1954. 'The Mischief Makers' seemed to be a cross between an updated group of Rascals and an attempt at redoing White's earlier Big Boy comedies (little "High Pockets" seems to be modeled after Malcolm "Big Boy" Sebastion). Only one entry in this series ("Kids Will Be Kids") was produced. It's regarded by many as the worst short Columbia put out. But hey, Emil Sitka's in it!

- "The Our Gang Story" documentary is definitely worth seeing. You can find a copy on Amazon for practically nothing. It features quite a few nice clips, including one of the Rascals meeting Mussolini's son!

- I actually didn't think the 1994 Rascals movie was too bad. Flawed, definitely. It could have benefited from having the new set of Rascals playing themselves rather than already existing characters (then again, how do you sell a Rascals movie without Alfalfa or Buckwheat in it?) There were a few brief moments where the kids were allowed to be 'natural' (Buckwheat and Porky's scenes come to mind). Ex-Our Gangers like Tommy Bond and Eugene Jackson were reportedly upset about not being asked to be involved with the film, at least as consultants. Director Penelope Spheris was unaware that so many Rascals were still living at the time (I guess she never got her hands on Leonard Maltin's book). There had been some talk of getting Spanky McFarland for a cameo, but he passed on during pre-production stages. But overall, I feel the film recaptured the general essence of what the Gang was about - kids being kids - getting into mischief and having fun. Not a bad attempt, IMHO.

- I've seen "The Little Rascals Save the Day" once. I'm sure the filmmakers' hearts were in the right place, but one has to be cautious when reviving something like Our Gang. Overall, the kid actors seemed too professional. Most are fine actors, sure. But part of the original series' charm was that the kids were able to act naturally. On the plus side, it's the only Rascals reboot to feature Kennedy the Cop (though he's re-written as a semi-villain, for some reason)! If you're an Our Gang fan, it's worth seeing at least once. But I'm sure your kids will like it more than you.

- Other Rascals reboots included an animated Christmas special (featuring the voices of Stymie Beard and the late Darla Hood), a Saturday morning cartoon produced by Hanna-Barbera (and featuring such talents as Peter Cullen, Shavar Ross, and Patty Maloney), an off-Broadway musical (which featured such up-and-coming talents as Dule Hill and Jenna Von Oy), a TV pilot produced by Norman Lear (and featuring a young Gary Coleman as "Stymie"), and a series of commercials for Jell-O Gelatin Pops (featuring a young Seth Green as "Alfalfa").

- Besides "Curley" and "Who Killed Doc Robbin," Roach attempted to revive the Gang in 1955 to coincide with the series' move to television. A film was never made, but a series of Dell Comics were released. Speaking of comics, Walt Kelly produced a successful series of Our Gang comics for MGM during the 1940s. I'm not a big comic book person, but I quite enjoyed these. Two comic series were produced in the UK during the late-30s/early 40s - "Our Gang" and "Stymie and his Magical Wishbone" (yes, Stymie had his own comic series).

(And speaking of "Curley," did you know that star Larry Olsen is the older brother of Susan 'Cindy Brady' Olsen?)

- Projects that never got off the ground included a sequel to the 1990s Rascals movie, several new live action TV series (apparently, there was a series called "The New Our Gang" that actually did air briefly), a movie titled "The Big Rascals" (older versions of the Gang, I'm guessing), and "Crook's Incorporated." "Crook's" was written by Hal Roach in 1935 and was pitched to MGM as a possible Our Gang feature. Charley Chase, Thelma Todd, and Patsy Kelly were set to costar. A year later, Roach wound up starring the kids in a different feature - "General Spanky."

Guess there's not much more I can say except... "Gimme the high-sign!" (too bad there isn't an emoticon for that).


Offline Shemp_is_Awesome78

Wow, you really covered everything, 7stooges! Really informative. In fact, speaking of Dick Bann and Leonard Maltin's book, you could in fact write a book based off of all of that Our Gang knowledge!! You really covered everything!
Abbottt: Stop smoking in here, Costello!
Costello: What makes you think I'm smoking?
Abbott: You have a cigar in your mouth!
Costello: I got my shoes on, but I'm not walking!


Offline 7stooges

Some rare(ish) Our Gang clips:

Behind the scenes footage of Rainy Days (ca. late 1927):


Outtakes from some of the early talkies:


Newsreel footage of Pete the Pup and Harry Lucenay:


Little Rascals cartoon episodes:
http://www.dailymotion.com/us/relevance/universal/search/little+rascals+cartoon+abc/1

Jell-O Gelatin Pop ads (2 clips):




The Little Rascals Christmas Special:


Darla Hood on the Jack Benny Program (2 parts):




Our Gang: Inside the Clubhouse - Documentary (sadly, part 1 was blocked by a company that claims to own the rights to some of the clips used):
&index=1

"The Aurora Encounter," Spanky McFarland's last movie (skip to 32:40 and 34:48)


Offline stoogerascalfan62

I'd like to see a more books about the Gang/Rascals, especially with material not covered in the Maltin-Bann book. If there can be so many Stooges books, why not the Rascals?


Offline Signor Spumoni

7Stooges, you have made two sizeable and informative contributions.  Thank you!  When I have the time, I'll comment a bit on some of the things you wrote.  For now, let me just say that it's a pleasure to "meet" you and I hope you'll post more here.  It's also a pleasure to find someone else who likes the silent Our Gang comedies. 


Offline Shemp_is_Awesome78

 Yes, I would also like to thank 7stooges. I'll be sure to check out some of the clips that he mentioned!
Abbottt: Stop smoking in here, Costello!
Costello: What makes you think I'm smoking?
Abbott: You have a cigar in your mouth!
Costello: I got my shoes on, but I'm not walking!


Offline Mark The Shark

Ref., Mickey Rooney

After the "McGuire" series ended, and before Mickey arrived at MGM renamed Mickey Rooney, he made personal appearances at theaters around the country as 'Mickey McGuire.'  One of those appearances was at Cleveland OH's RKO Palace Theater on August 28, 1932.  On the bill with Mickey were Ted Healy & His Stooges.

August 28, 1932... the day Jerome 'Curly' Howard premiered in the act.  This was the act's next gig after Shemp quit on August 19 in NYC.  It's interesting that up until just 1 year ago, an eyewitness to that milestone was still alive.
 


I know I'm late responding to this, but I want to thank Brent for posting this ad.

I just wonder though -- I know you know your stuff, and if you say "this happened at this location on this date" I would tend to believe you -- but I'm just curious how you nailed those dates down for Shemp's final appearance (until the 1940s) and Curly's debut. Then what of the supposed period where Fred Sanborn would have stepped in between the two?

And furthermore -- who are those three other names listed as Racketeers beneath Howard, Fine and Howard?

Also -- in his book One Fine Stooge, author Steve Cox mentions that Larry Fine's notes cite a one-off performance (on an unknown date, at an unknown venue, under an unknown group name) of Moe, Shemp and Curly (apparently without Larry and without Ted Healy). Has anyone ever found anything to substantiate this?


Offline BeAStooge

  • Birdbrain
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I'm just curious how you nailed those dates down for Shemp's final appearance (until the 1940s) and Curly's debut.

Thousands of documents (newspaper articles, theater ads, booking ads, performance reviews, playbills, etc.) comprise the live appearance database project at The Stoogeum.  A work-in-progress for 10+ years, their coming-&-going live appearance history from the 1910s to 1970s is archived.  August 20, both Variety and the NYTimes reported Shemp's quitting the night before.

And Bill Cassara's Nobody's Stooge: Ted Healy is available for this information.

Quote
Then what of the supposed period where Fred Sanborn would have stepped in between the two?

Sanborn did not step in between Shemp and Curly.   

Sanborn joined Healy's troupe in January 1929 for A NIGHT IN VENICE, as a replacement for a temporarily MIA Larry Fine.  When Larry was located and formally rejoined that Shubert show, Healy kept Sanborn on as a '4th stooge,' although he performed primarily as a single in VENICE with his xylophone act.  Sanborn remained with Healy for 1-1/2 years, thru 1930's SOUP TO NUTS.

Quote
And furthermore -- who are those three other names listed as Racketeers beneath Howard, Fine and Howard?

They're not Racketeers, or connected with Healy.  "Stevens, Nelson & Stevens" was a separate act on the bill.


Offline Mark The Shark

Wow, thanks! It surprises me that at this stage of their career, a reviewer would make note of a change in Healy's Stooges/Racketeers/Southern Gentlemen/Gang personnel, especially just one of them. But I'm glad someone did, since that nails it down.

So where did that story of Sanborn "filling in" (as first mentioned in, IIRC, The Three Stooges Scrapbook) come from then? I also note that when he first steps on stage during Plane Nuts, Curly seems to be doing some of Sanborn's schtick. Next time he comes out, he's essentially Curly.

Who would have thought that at this late date, so many of these questions pertaining to relative minutae could be answered.

Now you've got me wanting to go searching for any kind of ad that might back up the Howard, Howard and Howard story.

I just looked at the ad again. So you're saying Shemp performed with the act one night, and BAM! Curly replaced him the next night? I would have thought there would have been some "down time," but given they were brothers, maybe Shemp stuck it out until everything was covered.


Offline Signor Spumoni

Jean Darling, who appeared in silent Our Gang comedy shorts beginning in 1926, passed away on 4.September 2015.


Offline metaldams

Jean Darling, who appeared in silent Our Gang comedy shorts beginning in 1926, passed away on 4.September 2015.

Yes, I did hear that.  She was about six weeks older than my grandmother, who passed in '07.  Makes me wonder if my grandparents were remotely like those kids.  May Ms. Darling rest in peace, I imagine there must be few cast members left.
- Doug Sarnecky


Offline falsealarms

I imagine there must be few cast members left.

From Mark Evanier's News From Me blog --

"There are actually around 35 Our Gang performers still alive, though that number includes several who merely had bit parts in one or two of the shorts. I'm not sure which one had the most appearances…maybe Robert Blake (yes, that Robert Blake). He was in forty of the shorts. Most of those who are alive were in the sound Our Gang films which were made until 1944. Jean was one of the last four performers — all women — who appeared in the silent Our Gang shorts. And now there are three…"

http://www.newsfromme.com/2015/09/06/jean-darling-r-i-p/


Offline Signor Spumoni

Here's a six minute video of Jean Darling all grown up, preceded by a brief clip of her appearance in an Our Gang talkie, "Boxing Gloves."  She sings "Serenade To A Lemonade" here, quite a departure from her childhood appearances.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBbWgHTBHQk


Offline Signor Spumoni

One last thing:  Here is a link to "The Butler's Tale," a silent comedy short made in 2013 and starring Jean Darling.  I include it as a curiosity.  One actor appears to have been influenced by Fin and another by Ollie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4Z_sFwSBb0


Offline Big Chief Apumtagribonitz

If I'm not mistaken, Rene Riva, the producer/director of this, is a regular contributor to the Laurel and Hardy Forum website.


Offline Signor Spumoni

If I'm not mistaken, Rene Riva, the producer/director of this, is a regular contributor to the Laurel and Hardy Forum website.

Ah!  That would make sense.  It was clear that the person who made the video was a lover of the old films.  There was even a "cameo" by Ollie in the form of a photo on a book where an author's picture would appear. 

I need to visit Rene` Riva's Website.  I'm sure it's interesting.

Thanks, Big Chief.  :)


Offline Big Chief Apumtagribonitz

As far as I know, it's not Rene Riva's website, it's just called the Laurel And Hardy Forum.  And it's a great website.  I think it's based in Great Britain, where L&H are practically national heroes.


Offline Signor Spumoni

As far as I know, it's not Rene Riva's website, it's just called the Laurel And Hardy Forum.  And it's a great website.  I think it's based in Great Britain, where L&H are practically national heroes.

I apologize for my unclear writing, Big Chief.  Rene` Riva has a Website.  I saw a link on Youtube when I watched "The Butler's Tale."  That's the one I meant to visit, and I have done so.  Too bad for me I don't understand Dutch or I would be able to tell you what's on the site.

The L&H forum sounds intriguing.  I'll look it up and visit. 


Offline Big Chief Apumtagribonitz

I enjoy it a lot.  Very high-class clientele, and good fun.


Offline stoogerascalfan62