Topic: Our Gang/The Little Rascals thread

[Big Chief Apumtagribonitz]

Maybe the Curse.  Whatever, that's a great eye, SIA.   What made you see it wasn't Jackie Cooper?

[Signor Spumoni]

Yes, that was Breezy Brisbane, indeed. Only, in some films., he's called Breezy, and in some he's called Brisbane, and Harry Spear was an actor from late-silent to early-talkies. He has been a lost player until like the 80's, because he didn't like admitting that he was in Our Gang, for some weird reason.

I've seen Harry in some of the silents.  Maybe he was pestered by fans and that's why he hated to admit he was in OG.  Maybe it took the focus off his adult life and accomplishments.

[Shemp_is_Awesome78]

I've seen Harry in some of the silents.  Maybe he was pestered by fans and that's why he hated to admit he was in OG.  Maybe it took the focus off his adult life and accomplishments.

Yeah, maybe..

Maybe the Curse.  Whatever, that's a great eye, SIA.   What made you see it wasn't Jackie Cooper?

Well, normally, I associate Jackie with a bit of curls and blonde hair, while Harry does not have curls nor blonde hair, and he has a bit more makeup on than Jackie usually does. Plus, this was taken in early 1929, which means Jackie wasn't signed on yet.

[Signor Spumoni]

Yeah, maybe..Well, normally, I associate Jackie with a bit of curls and blonde hair, while Harry does not have curls nor blonde hair, and he has a bit more makeup on than Jackie usually does. Plus, this was taken in early 1929, which means Jackie wasn't signed on yet.

Where do you see the year this was taken?

[Shemp_is_Awesome78]

Where do you see the year this was taken?

I have seen this photo on various other sites, so I was just using the knowledge that I already knew about the photo.

So, did anybody guess the movie I was referencing to?

[Signor Spumoni]

I have seen this photo on various other sites, so I was just using the knowledge that I already knew about the photo.

So, did anybody guess the movie I was referencing to?

Was it "Shivering Shakespeare?"

BTW, Jackie was in two Rascals shorts in 1929.

[Big Chief Apumtagribonitz]

Great eye.  No guess about the movie, sorry.

[Shemp_is_Awesome78]

Was it "Shivering Shakespeare?"

BTW, Jackie was in two Rascals shorts in 1929.

Yes, you are correct, indeed. And, yes, I do know Jackie was in two 1929 shorts, except the photo was taken in EARLY 1929, from what I've heard and the two shorts Jackie were in were in LATE 1929. Also, does anybody always laugh hysterically during School's Out and during the schoolroom routine Miss Crabtree asks, " Who was the Hunchback of Notre Dame?" to which Jackie replies " Lon Chaney!" and Miss Crabtree gives an angry response.

[Signor Spumoni]

Yes, you are correct, indeed. And, yes, I do know Jackie was in two 1929 shorts, except the photo was taken in EARLY 1929, from what I've heard and the two shorts Jackie were in were in LATE 1929. Also, does anybody always laugh hysterically during School's Out and during the schoolroom routine Miss Crabtree asks, " Who was the Hunchback of Notre Dame?" to which Jackie replies " Lon Chaney!" and Miss Crabtree gives an angry response.

I don't mean to argue about this subject of when Jackie joined the troupe.  But all I can find are the release dates for his three (I was wrong, three shorts, not two) shorts, not the filming dates.  They were released in late 1929, as you said.  But we don't know when they were filmed.  Some shorts would lie around for a long time before being released.

I do enjoy that line about Lon Chaney, yes.   

[Shemp_is_Awesome78]

I don't mean to argue about this subject of when Jackie joined the troupe.  But all I can find are the release dates for his three (I was wrong, three shorts, not two) shorts, not the filming dates.  They were released in late 1929, as you said.  But we don't know when they were filmed.  Some shorts would lie around for a long time before being released.

I do enjoy that line about Lon Chaney, yes.   

Yes, when I used to watch that film as a kid, that was the only line I could only get out of the school routine, except for the nonsensical ones. ( Surprisingly, I knew who Lon Chaney was, back then.) Also, it's a shame that more Rascals aren't alive. At least Jerry Tucker, Dickie Moore, and Robert Blake are alive ( well,not so much Robert... because he was whiny as crap.)

[Signor Spumoni]

Yes, when I used to watch that film as a kid, that was the only line I could only get out of the school routine, except for the nonsensical ones. ( Surprisingly, I knew who Lon Chaney was, back then.) Also, it's a shame that more Rascals aren't alive. At least Jerry Tucker, Dickie Moore, and Robert Blake are alive ( well,not so much Robert... because he was whiny as crap.)

I, on the other hand, did not know who Lon Chaney when first I saw this short. 

I agree with you about Robert Blake's whininess.  Truth to tell, I've seen those shorts only a few times, and that was when I was young.  I don't like them enough to see them again, although I think Buckwheat was good.

[Signor Spumoni]

Have a good evening, S_I_A78.  I'll be going now because it's time to eat.  I think we're having mush and milk again.   

[Shemp_is_Awesome78]

I, on the other hand, did not know who Lon Chaney when first I saw this short. 

I agree with you about Robert Blake's whininess.  Truth to tell, I've seen those shorts only a few times, and that was when I was young.  I don't like them enough to see them again, although I think Buckwheat was good.

Yep, I was just watching a couple of them from the set a few weeks ago, and I had to stop after 8 episodes. Alfalfa's taller than most of the adult actors, Spanky is hamming it up for the camera, Porky is as tall as Spanky, Janet is trying too hard to be Shirley Temple, Mickey is too darn whiny, everybody's gestures are too bad, while the only two good things I find in the set are Buckwheat and Froggy, because his trick voice always makes me fall into hysterics and his crossed eyes also make me laugh. It's a shame he was gone by 16. He could've done so much more comedic things.

[Shemp_is_Awesome78]

Have a good evening, S_I_A78.  I'll be going now because it's time to eat.  I think we're having mush and milk again.   

Again?  ( Then, comes the reworking of " Mush and Milk".)

[Shemp_is_Awesome78]

 Here's a sort of kind of connection between The Three Stooges and Our Gang: Back in around the 60's, I'd say, or maybe 50's, Columbia was trying to capitalize on the success of Our Gang, so Jules White put a whole group of talentless kids with Emil Sitka and said, " Do some funny stuff that'll turn out to be the next Little Rascals!" But, it was a fail. A big fail. A disaster, let's just say that. Like Hal Roach's Curley and Who Killed Doc Robbin, it was horrible. The fact of even trying to update Our Gang never falls to be a horrible picture. Just look at The Little Rascals Save the Day! I mean, some moments are okay, but the rest of the film sucks. Same with the 90's movie.. Well, some scenes in that movie do derive a chuckle, but it's all too modern for my liking. Trying to put the Rascals into our modern world is not a good idea. Our Gang can't, and will never be duplicated.

[Signor Spumoni]

Here's a sort of kind of connection between The Three Stooges and Our Gang: Back in around the 60's, I'd say, or maybe 50's, Columbia was trying to capitalize on the success of Our Gang, so Jules White put a whole group of talentless kids with Emil Sitka and said, " Do some funny stuff that'll turn out to be the next Little Rascals!" But, it was a fail. A big fail. A disaster, let's just say that. Like Hal Roach's Curley and Who Killed Doc Robbin, it was horrible. The fact of even trying to update Our Gang never falls to be a horrible picture. Just look at The Little Rascals Save the Day! I mean, some moments are okay, but the rest of the film sucks. Same with the 90's movie.. Well, some scenes in that movie do derive a chuckle, but it's all too modern for my liking. Trying to put the Rascals into our modern world is not a good idea. Our Gang can't, and will never be duplicated.

One of the child actors in 1947's "Curley" went on to stardom in a sitcom several years later.  Do you know who it was?

[Shemp_is_Awesome78]

One of the child actors in 1947's "Curley" went on to stardom in a sitcom several years later.  Do you know who it was?

Larry Olsen? Honestly, I'm just guessing, because Larry Olsen and Renee Beard are the only cast members I know of.

Do you know Winston and Weston Doty? They were twins that were in a few early silents. They died on New Year's Eve during a flood in 1934. I believe they were around 20..

[Signor Spumoni]

Larry Olsen? Honestly, I'm just guessing, because Larry Olsen and Renee Beard are the only cast members I know of.

Do you know Winston and Weston Doty? They were twins that were in a few early silents. They died on New Year's Eve during a flood in 1934. I believe they were around 20..

Answer:  Billy Gray, who became better known as Bud on "Father Knows Best."

The Doty twins:  yes, I read about them.  They phoned their mother to say they were on their way home from a party but they never made it.

[Shemp_is_Awesome78]

Answer:  Billy Gray, who became better known as Bud on "Father Knows Best."

The Doty twins:  yes, I read about them.  They phoned their mother to say they were on their way home from a party but they never made it.

( Oh, I don't know who Billy Grey is.) I never read that part. I didn't know about it until a couple weeks ago. That just proves The Curse even more. I'm starting to believe it. Basically, everybody got it except for a couple who are still living and Jackie Cooper.

[Signor Spumoni]

( Oh, I don't know who Billy Grey is.)
You're probably a lot younger than I. am, or else your family watched something other than "Father Knows Best."  Both would be good reasons not to know Billy Gray.


I never read that part. I didn't know about it until a couple weeks ago. That just proves The Curse even more. I'm starting to believe it. Basically, everybody got it except for a couple who are still living and Jackie Cooper.

I don't believe in curses.  What I believe is that actors have hard lives.  Many of them, especially from a certain era, died suddenly or never made old bones.  Vaudeville touring was a rough life, for example.  A lot of actors just up and died, and probably from conditions which are treatable nowadays.  Even today, treatable conditions cause early deaths, though, with diabetes being a classic example, and even now there is sudden adult death syndrome.  And let's not forget that drugs  were in Hollywood from the beginning, and alcohol abuse was common.
Lots of actors who filmed near bomb-testing sites developed cancer and died from it.  A surprising number of actors committed suicide, such as Phil Van Zandt.   And there's always just bad luck or the unexpected, such as the Doty boys or Jay R. Smith.
But lots of actors lived happy, long lives.  Many of those left acting and went into other lines of work, such as Joe Cobb and Eugene Jackson [correction:  Eugene Jackson didn't leave acting so much as he branched out into dancing and other forms of entertainment, mostly outside Hollywood].  I don't know the percentages of what caused the deaths of actors vs. everyday people.  That would be interesting.
There are many sad stories among Our Gang and among Hollywood and Broadway performers generally.  But I don't believe any curse was responsible for anything.  Lack of education made many lives tougher; child actors often received poor educations because their schoolwork was second to their acting.  It's hard to be a successful adult when you're washed up at age eight or ten and when your schooling is inferior, and when your parents are not very good at being parents.  I think those things had more to do with Rascals' unhappy lives than anything else.

[hiramhorwitz]

I don't believe in curses.  What I believe is that actors have hard lives.  Many of them, especially from a certain era, died suddenly or never made old bones.  Vaudeville touring was a rough life, fo example.  A lot of actors just up and died, and probably from conditions which are treatable nowadays.  Even today, treatable conditions cause early deaths, though, with diabetes being a classic example, and even now there is sudden adult death syndrome.  And let's not forget that drugs  were in Hollywood from the beginning, and alcohol abuse was common.
Lots of actors who filmed near bomb-testing sites developed cancer and died from it.  A surprising number of actors committed suicide, such as Phil Van Zandt.   And there's always just bad luck or the unexpected, such as the Doty boys or Jay R. Smith.
But lots of actors lived happy, long lives.  Many of those left acting and went into other lines of work, such as Joe Cobb and Eugene Jackson.  I don't know the percentages of what caused the deaths of actors vs. everyday people.  That would be interesting.
There are many sad stories among Our Gang and among Hollywood and Broadway performers generally.  But I don't believe any curse was responsible for anything.  Lack of education made many lives tougher; child actors often received poor educations because their schoolwork was second to their acting.  It's hard to be a successful adult when you're washed up at age eight or ten and when your schooling is inferior, and when your parents are not very good at being parents.  I think those things had more to do with Rascals' unhappy lives than anything else.

Nice treatise, Signor.  Regarding the Gang actors' often shortened lives, I've often wondered if being forced to work 80 hours a week from the time one is two has anything to do with it.

[Signor Spumoni]

Nice treatise, Signor.  Regarding the Gang actors' often shortened lives, I've often wondered if being forced to work 80 hours a week from the time one is two has anything to do with it.

Thank you.
Excellent point, HH, excellent point!  Surely putting in work weeks which would be too long for adults cannot have enhanced the health of children. 

[Big Chief Apumtagribonitz]

Did this really happen?  I would have thought that such things would be addressed in the Jackie Coogan Law.

[Signor Spumoni]

Did this really happen?  I would have thought that such things would be addressed in the Jackie Coogan Law.

The Coogan Law addresses earnings but not working hours. The first, and flawed, version of Coogan's Law came into being in 1939.

I know there are now child labor laws which restrict the number of hours child performers work by age, but I don't know anything about those laws in the early part of the twentieth century. 

[Big Chief Apumtagribonitz]

Well, I know the laws were fairly strict in the late '30's for kids like Mickey Rooney and Judy Garland, fairly being a flexible term not necessarily excluding amphetamine dosing, but I don't know anything about the late 20's - early 30's.  Eighty-hour workweeks would seem self-defeating for a troupe of child actors, it being unimaginable to get a decent performance out of a kid that severely sleep-deprived.  Garland and Rooney were at least teen-aged, not that that forgives anything, but dosing 8-year-olds, besides being diabolical, seems from a business standpoint counterproductive.