Soitenly
Moronika
The community forum of ThreeStooges.net

A Day At The Races (1937) The Marx Brothers

metaldams · 22 · 11652

0 Members and 8 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline metaldams

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0028772/?ref_=nv_sr_2



      So close to another classic, but not quite.  At one hour forty nine minutes, this is definitely a longer Marx film, and it definitely could have used a little trimming.  I don't think anybody would argue the lavish MGM style song and dance number on those floating clamshell thing-a-ma-bobs, or whatever the heck it was, could have been trimmed.  Then much later on in the film we get the romantic couple singing a tender song after one of the great all-time Marx comedy scenes (more on that later), kind of ruining the comic flow a bit.  After that, we get Harpo as Gabriel, being the pied piper to African Americans the world over.  Completely bizarre.  I have to admit, as unnecessary as the scene was to the film, it does have its entertainment value.  The combination Negro spiritual, swing, jazz and dancing is really awesome and does add a unique flavor to the film.  An unnecessary flavor, as I said, but an entertaining one.  My only other complaint about the film is Groucho running away from the law like a coward because he's a horse doctor instead of a human one.  I wish they could have found a way to make him more defiant, but perhaps I'm just nitpicking.
   
    There is still a lot of great comedy to be found in this one.  The scene where Groucho stalls showing the doctors his medical techniques by constantly sanitizing his hands with his brothers is an all-time favorite scene of mine.  The milking of the hand sanitizing gag, Groucho's stream of jokes about the bearded doctor's grooming habits, poor Margaret Dumont being thrown in every direction in that examination chair, the scene is a comic masterpiece.  Seamus, you and I discussed how Harpo is more behaved with the ladies at MGM.  Well, when the three pretty nurses walk in, Harpo hugs/fondles one of the nurses, "accidentally" gets her nurses jacket off to reveal a short skirt and stockinged legs as she runs away.  There's some degenerate life in the old mime after all!  Then the finale where the brothers are riding away on the horse with the sprinkler system going off is a great final touch.

      This may be my favorite Margaret Dumont role.  The fact she is stupid enough to fall for Groucho being a human doctor is hysterical in itself, but her combination of blind love, stupidity, and trust is too much.  In other films, she's almost above Groucho at times, but here, she's a little loonier and obviously taken in by him.  Kind of random, but later in the film when Douglass Dumbrille tells her to shut up, her aghast reaction always gets a laugh out of me.

      My other favorite bit is the tootsie frootsie ice cream scene.  The way Chico just suckers Groucho in by making him buy all those books is another classic scene.  Again, they just milk this for all its worth.  After a while, Groucho seems to know he's being suckered in, but he goes through with it anyway.  It's almost like, yeah, he made it this far, might as well see where this thing concludes.  I'm glad he waited, because the sight of Groucho as a human library is well worth it.

     Oh yeah, gotta mention the "love making" scene that gets interrupted by Chico and Harpo.  The attractive tall blonde's "thank you" line is always fun to hear, as is Groucho dancing around the room like a sixteen year old before she comes in.  Chaos ensues once all brothers are in the room, climaxing in that wonderful wallpaper gag.

      There are a lot of funny scenes in this one but if perhaps the romantic couple's story line was a little more to the point and twenty minutes or so was trimmed off this thing, we'd have another perfect ten.  Irving Thalberg did die two weeks into this film's production, so I'm not sure had he lived if it would have made a difference at all.  As things stand, we have a good film on our hands, but oh, what could have been.

8/10
- Doug Sarnecky


Offline Larrys#1

This movie is very good. It's right up there with A NIGHT AT THE OPERA. The tootsie frootsie ice cream bit was hilarious. My favorite part was when Groucho was examining Dumont. Chico and Harpo join in as doctors too and assist Groucho in the examination and the whole scene becomes chaotic and hilarious. Harpo was really funny when he took Dumont's purse when she asks to have her pulse taken.

Another great scene was when Harpo and Chico start paperhanging Groucho's room to keep him away from trouble. Another hilarious and chaotic scene.

Of course, this movie does have its flaws, mostly minor, but the major one was that insanely long musical number located 3/4 into the film. I didn't keep track of the time, but it had to have run longer than 10 minutes. Sheesh. It was unnecessary and not essential to the plot of the story. With a movie as long as 110 minutes, I don't get why they added in such a bigger filler like that.

Other than that, great film.... 9/10


Offline metaldams


Of course, this movie does have its flaws, mostly minor, but the major one was that insanely long musical number located 3/4 into the film. I didn't keep track of the time, but it had to have run longer than 10 minutes. Sheesh. It was unnecessary and not essential to the plot of the story. With a movie as long as 110 minutes, I don't get why they added in such a bigger filler like that.


      In theory, I agree with everything you say, but on its own, I find the majority of the later musical bit entertaining.  That 300 pound dude who does the split rules!  Much more entertaining than the boring extended musical bit earlier on.
- Doug Sarnecky


Offline Big Chief Apumtagribonitz

It's important to remember, I think, that in those days, those musical numbers were not considered "filler" at all.  Indeed they were considered very important parts of the movie, lending the film a lot of class ( musical segments were extremely expensive to produce ) and proving that the actors were not just one-dimensional performers but all-round entertainers.  It's also important to remember that jazz and swing music, the pop music of that day, was widely perceived to be a black invention ( think Louis Armstrong ) which had been co-opted by white musicians ( think Benny Goodman or Tommy Dorsey ).  Thus it struck nobody as weird that white-as-snow Harpo was mixing it up musically with Ivie Anderson and her friends in the black neighborhood, although I can't possibly defend the brothers' blacking up with axle grease.
     The big problem with these musical numbers is that the music itself has dated badly to the point where few contemporary listeners want to sit through it.  Me, I'm a fan.
     And yes, the rotund guy rules, and yes, the Marxes dance pretty well for middle-aged white guys.


Offline Larrys#1

Interesting how music was very popular back then. The stooges didn't take very long to ditch music in their episodes. The used them heavily in the Healy episodes and once in WOMAN HATERS. After that, they ditched them and never looked back.

I don't think I would mind the music as much if I knew they were legitimate performances, but it just seems as though most of the time, they're lip synced. At least when Chico and Harpo do they instrument bits, they're real. It's one of the reasons why I actually like the music numbers in shows like I LOVE LUCY. Now THAT is real singing and Desi Arnaz actually has an incredible singing voice in real life.


Offline Big Chief Apumtagribonitz

Apparently the logistics of filming a musical production number live are insurmountable and were rarely even attempted after the earliest days of sound.  I've never seen it, but I understand that one of the worst features of Peter Bogdonovitch's At Long Last Love is that they filmed the numbers live with dismal results.  That being said, even though the sequence is pre-dubbed, that is indeed Ivie Anderson, at that time Duke Ellington's vocalist, singing All God's Children Got Rhythm, an undeniable musical asset, and very different from Audrey Hepburn pantomiming to Marnie Nixon's voice in My Fair Lady.


Offline hiramhorwitz

It's one of the reasons why I actually like the music numbers in shows like I LOVE LUCY. Now THAT is real singing and Desi Arnaz actually has an incredible singing voice in real life.

I can't agree with you more -- a very discerning comment!


Offline Big Chief Apumtagribonitz

I'll buy that, Desi did sing well, and there's also plenty of music and singing in the stooges episodes, including at times some very nice close harmony.  But those are by no means full-scale cinematic production numbers, which are another thing entirely.


Offline metaldams

It used to be I hated all musical numbers that had nothing to do with the comedians, but the older I get, the more I appreciate some of that stuff.  I enjoy some of The Andrew Sisters stuff in the Abbott and Costello movies and I watched LOST IN A HAREM recently and that Jimmy Dorsey jazz stuff was quite cool.  My problem is when the music is performed by studio created pretty girls and pretty boys performing what I perceive to be fluff.  We'll see that in some future Marx films.  300 pounder doing a split, not fluff.
- Doug Sarnecky


Offline Big Chief Apumtagribonitz

I'm not at all sure either that Harpo's and Chico's numbers are not pre-recorded.  It's much more difficult to discern mimed finger movements than it is to discern mimed mouth movements, especially on harp, where the Body English is downright Byzantine.  I think Harpo's are pre-recorded, one clue being how perfectly his whistling is blended with the harp: even today whistling is nasty to mike -  Harpo's whistling is sweet and dulcet, without a mike in sight, and a harp, believe it or not, especially compared to a whistle, is pretty damn loud.
     Chico's shooting the keys looks live, all right,  but he's the type of soloist who's going to find one schtick and repeat it exactly every time - he's not one to improvise.  Sly dog that he is, I'm guessing that he could nail the lip-synch, or finger-synch, or pantomime, or whatever you'd like to call it, every single time.  In any case, his solo spots have way more edits and varying camera angles than Harpo's, allowing more room for fakery;  the camera tends to stay quite steadily on Harpo.
     For those reasons and for the comparatively high fidelity of the solos, much more studio than soundstage, I'll go out on a limb and say that these numbers are pre-recorded and performed by ( undeniably ) master pantomimists.


Offline Big Chief Apumtagribonitz

Oh, and BTW, the musical numbers in the recent Les Miz movie were filmed live, which feat I think has not garnered its due as a stupendous cinematic achievement.


Offline metaldams

I'm not at all sure either that Harpo's and Chico's numbers are not pre-recorded.  It's much more difficult to discern mimed finger movements than it is to discern mimed mouth movements, especially on harp, where the Body English is downright Byzantine.  I think Harpo's are pre-recorded, one clue being how perfectly his whistling is blended with the harp: even today whistling is nasty to mike -  Harpo's whistling is sweet and dulcet, without a mike in sight, and a harp, believe it or not, especially compared to a whistle, is pretty damn loud.
     Chico's shooting the keys looks live, all right,  but he's the type of soloist who's going to find one schtick and repeat it exactly every time - he's not one to improvise.  Sly dog that he is, I'm guessing that he could nail the lip-synch, or finger-synch, or pantomime, or whatever you'd like to call it, every single time.  In any case, his solo spots have way more edits and varying camera angles than Harpo's, allowing more room for fakery;  the camera tends to stay quite steadily on Harpo.
     For those reasons and for the comparatively high-fidelity of the solos, much more studio than soundstage, I'll go out on a limb and say that these numbers are pre-recorded and performed by ( undeniably ) master pantomimists.

      It could also be one of those deals where some of it is truly live and there are overdubs, like, possibly Harpo's whistling, to clean up any imperfections in the original performance.  That's pretty much how live concert albums and videos are done to this very day.  Just a guess on my part, I don't know the answer for sure.  I'll try to observe these things when reviewing future films.

      While it is obvious Harpo and Chico can play regardless, my favorite example of a comic who obviously can't play is Oliver Hardy trying to play bass in BELOW ZERO.  Never fails to make me laugh as a bassist myself.
- Doug Sarnecky


Offline Big Chief Apumtagribonitz

Eighty-some years removed, I'm glad we both admit we're guessing.  Ollie's bass playing sounds so dismal in Below Zero that he himself may actually be playing.  It certainly sounds about the same as the few times he randomly slaps it.
     Speaking of Oliver Hardy, his wife was quoted by John McCabe as saying that Hardy's favorites of his movies were the ones with "production", that is to say music, specifically including Babes in Toyland and Swiss Miss, movies which many L&H fans dismiss exactly because of the music.  Luckily, everyone agrees that Way Out West, despite having some utterly delicious music, also has irresistable comedy.  No debate there.
     I don't know, Metal, I just listened to the first part of Below Zero again, and you'd know better than me, but if I were putting together a kick-ass rockabilly band, I might want Ollie back there slappin' that thing.


Offline Seamus

Interesting thoughts from Big Chief on the subject of dubbing versus live.  The sound quality always led me to believe that most of Chico and Harpo's solos were dubbed, but I was never a hundred percent sure.  COCOANUTS may be one of the few times  (only time?) they played live in their movies, since dubbing wasn't really an option for early talkies.  That's just a guess on my part though.

Coincidentally, this week I'm working through the new Marx Brothers TV Collection that was released earlier this year, and it includes several TV clips of Chico and Harpo performing live on stage, including the two-hander piano number from BIG STORE and the "orange roll" number from GO WEST.  Seems likely they're playing live in those circumstances, so it's interesting to see them playing those numbers for real.

As for DAY AT THE RACES, it's been a while since I've seen this one, but it always felt like the awkward little sister to NIGHT AT THE OPERA.  It follows the same formula as it's predecessor, and the DAY/NIGHT titles make them feel like companion pieces, but everything about RACES is less good.  The musical numbers are more bloated (probably an asset at the time, but these days...), the romantic leads are sappier (Allan Jones + Maureen O'Sullivan < Allan Jones + Kitty Carlisle), and many of the comedy setpieces didn't really work for me.

The exception is the racing tips scene, which is one of my all-time favorites and the best part of the movie for me.  Like the contact scene from OPERA, it's a perfect example of how to pull off "repetition" comedy, where the premise is repeated over and over.  You realize early on that the scene is going to be Chico selling book after book to Groucho, but the beauty is in the performance, the timing, and the way the scene builds.  No matter how many times I see it, when they get to that moment when Groucho and Chico are both just staring at each other, each silently acknowledging the inevitability of another impending book purchase, I'm dying.  Like Metal said, Groucho knows he's being taken for a ride, but he's committed to seeing it through.


Offline Dr. Mabuse

For all of its classic comedy, "A Day at the Races" signals the beginning of the Marx Brothers' creative decline after the death of producer Irving Thalberg. What clicked in "A Night at the Opera" doesn't gel nearly as well in this uneven MGM production. Running almost two hours, "A Day at the Races" suffers from excessive musical numbers and subplots that dilute some of the Marxes' best material. This film cries for some major editing — preferably a deletion of the "Water Carnival" ballet and the ludicrous "All God's Children Got Rhythm" number. If Thalberg had lived, "A Day at the Races" might have been a worthy follow-up to "A Night at the Opera." Instead, the brilliance of Groucho, Chico and particularly Harpo is undermined by obvious studio tampering.

7/10


Offline HomokHarcos

It was watching this movie where I realized just how similar these MGM movies are to Bugs Bunny cartoons: they get beaten on and pushed into a corner by the bad guys, and then get their revenge using all types of tricks up their arsenal. That would have been a formula that worked by itself, as the race track scene at the end was a very good example of this. However, they unfortunately inserted the padding of the romantic couples. I don't see a reason why this movie had to be almost 2 hours long. I mean it has some good scenes itself. My favorite is when Chico and Harpo are pickpocketing the sheriff, that is classic Marx Brothers and the closest they get to their Paramount selves. There is also the ice cream scene, I like how it's implied that Groucho knows he is being scammed. but he is just too curious to refuse the sale.


Offline Umbrella Sam

  • Toastmaster General
  • Knothead
  • *****
    • Talk About Cinema
It was watching this movie where I realized just how similar these MGM movies are to Bugs Bunny cartoons: they get beaten on and pushed into a corner by the bad guys, and then get their revenge using all types of tricks up their arsenal. That would have been a formula that worked by itself, as the race track scene at the end was a very good example of this. However, they unfortunately inserted the padding of the romantic couples. I don't see a reason why this movie had to be almost 2 hours long. I mean it has some good scenes itself. My favorite is when Chico and Harpo are pickpocketing the sheriff, that is classic Marx Brothers and the closest they get to their Paramount selves. There is also the ice cream scene, I like how it's implied that Groucho knows he is being scammed. but he is just too curious to refuse the sale.

Interesting observation. I think you could also make the argument that while most of the Bugs Bunny cartoons are like the MGM Marx Brothers films, the pre-1951 Daffy Duck cartoons (and even some of the Bugs Bunny cartoons like REBEL RABBIT) are like the Paramount Marx Brothers films, in that they just cause chaos for fun.
“I’ll take a milkshake...with sour milk!” -Shemp (Punchy Cowpunchers, 1950)

My blog: https://talk-about-cinema.blogspot.com


Offline NoahYoung

This one is hard to judge because of all the stuff we now consider filler. Should we just consider the comedy scenes here vs. those of their better films? I read somewhere online once that a guy made his own version of this movie on tape by removing all the fluff and he claimed it played like one of their Paramounts. Though I'm not sure we should rate it higher if we can re-edit it to make it better. It is what it is.

That being said, it's the second best film they made at M-G-M. Not many Marx fans would disagree on that.

Another thing I wanted to point out. In A NIGHT AT THE OPERA, the boys look and act like they just wandered off the Paramount lot during lunch, got lost, and wound up at M-G-M. In A DAY AT THE RACES, their feet seem firmly planted at the M-G-M studios. From the first scene, it just feels different than A NIGHT AT THE OPERA.

Similar to Buster Keaton, who's first film made at M-G-M is somewhat similar to his independents, but with his next picture SPITE MARRIAGE, you start to see a hint of the decline, although SPITE MARRIAGE is still an excellent comedy. In the case of Keaton, though, the decline is magnified by the talkies, and I've often wondered what his films at M-G-M would have been like if he moved there earlier during the silent era, though I'm thankful that he did not.

I mentioned in another thread that there have been times I considered ranking A NIGHT IN CASABLANCA over this one. It's been several years (but certainly less than 10) since I last watched RACES, so it may be a worthwhile excercise to compare the 2 since CASABLANCA is so fresh in my mind right now.

BTW, I wonder if Woody Allen ever talked to Maureen O'Sullivan about her experience with the Marx Brothers when he was with Mia Farrow?

I also wonder if Woody Allen ever met Groucho or any of his brothers?

And isn't it surprising/disappointing that this is only their 2nd picture since DUCK SOUP in 1933? They were in their prime and should have made about 5 or so more movies then! The Stooges made all those movies with Joe DeRita when they were well past their prime!






Burt Lancaster was too short!
- The Birdman of Alcatraz


Offline Dr. Mabuse

I wonder if Woody Allen ever talked to Maureen O'Sullivan about her experience with the Marx Brothers when he was with Mia Farrow? I also wonder if Woody Allen ever met Groucho or any of his brothers?

In his 2020 memoir "Apropos of Nothing" (2020), Woody discussed all of the above: "Maureen told me when she was in 'A Day at the Races,' she had a little letch for Groucho but never told him of it. Consequently, he never pitched her. Years later, I never mentioned it to him because missing out on a freebie like Maureen could've caused him a coronary."

"When [Charles Hamilton] took me with him to lunch with Groucho I remember it was thrilling to meet the great comedian whose voice made everything he said sound funny, but I also felt sad thinking Groucho was exactly like any number of Jewish uncles or relatives I had who cracked jokes or teased at a family wedding or bar mitzvah. The difference was, in Groucho's case, that urge to comment with funny remarks took a quantum leap into comedy genius."

As a nightclub comic in the early 1960s, Woody met Harpo at New York's The Blue Angel, even though he "came in to see Bobby Short."


Offline NoahYoung

In his 2020 memoir "Apropos of Nothing" (2020), Woody discussed all of the above: "Maureen told me when she was in 'A Day at the Races,' she had a little letch for Groucho but never told him of it. Consequently, he never pitched her. Years later, I never mentioned it to him because missing out on a freebie like Maureen could've caused him a coronary."

"When [Charles Hamilton] took me with him to lunch with Groucho I remember it was thrilling to meet the great comedian whose voice made everything he said sound funny, but I also felt sad thinking Groucho was exactly like any number of Jewish uncles or relatives I had who cracked jokes or teased at a family wedding or bar mitzvah. The difference was, in Groucho's case, that urge to comment with funny remarks took a quantum leap into comedy genius."

As a nightclub comic in the early 1960s, Woody met Harpo at New York's Blue Angel, even though he "came in to see Bobby Short."

Fascinating stuff!

Interesting connections -- Woody with Mia, daughter of Maureen.
Frank Sinatra with Mia.
Frank Sinatra made a movie with Groucho.
Frank Sinatra married Zeppo's ex-wife.

BTW, ya gotta read THE MARX BROTHERS SCRAPBOOK to see an uncensored Groucho's remarks about the women in his movies! He got REALLY pissed at the author for actually publishing exactly what he said. Some of his quotes in the book during the interviews are: "You can't print that!" Well, Richard J, Anobile, the author, did print it.

Now I have to go back to it and see if he said anything about Maureen O'Sullivan!







Burt Lancaster was too short!
- The Birdman of Alcatraz


Offline Dr. Mabuse

Interesting connections -- Woody with Mia, daughter of Maureen.
Frank Sinatra with Mia.
Frank Sinatra made a movie with Groucho.
Frank Sinatra married Zeppo's ex-wife.

Here's another connection.



Offline NoahYoung

Cool -- never saw that before.

Took a cursory glance and parts of that book again, and all I could find is Groucho saying that Maureen O'Sullivan came to the set one day with a black eye because her then husband used to beat her up. He does refer to her as "Mia's mother."

Groucho is VERY explicit about what he wanted to do with Marilyn Monroe!!!  >:D

I love how Woody referred to the "freebie"! I'm sure Woody had his share of freebies over the years, too!
Groucho wanted a freebie from Thelma Todd and Monroe!


Burt Lancaster was too short!
- The Birdman of Alcatraz