Topic: The silent film thread

[metaldams]

Let's just get it started.  Who here's a silent film fan?  I'll share my story sometime tomorrow when I'm not watching a playoff game, because I have a lot to say.  We can discuss Chaplin, Griffith, Chaney, Murnau, Keaton, Pickford....whatever, as long as it's silent.  Let's see where this goes, and will somebody please start this?

[Giff me dat fill-em!]

Metaldams ... please begin with the capstone of all silent film Sci-Fi's ... "Metropolis" ... I have heard so much razz about this film that we need to address the razz before the berries.

Oh, and there was (I think) two silent versions of "Ben Hur" that competed with the stage version in the silent film era.
(thanks for beating me here Metaldams)

[metaldams]

Metaldams ... please begin with the capstone of all silent film Sci-Fi's ... "Metropolis" ... I have heard so much razz about this film that we need to address the razz before the berries.

Oh, and there was (I think) two silent versions of "Ben Hur" that competed with the stage version in the silent film era.

Believe it or not, I have seen the 1925 silent BEN HUR but never the 1959 version.  I actually have a DVD copy lying around of the 1959 version, which makes it crazier I haven't watched it yet.  BEN HUR is great, and I think a lot of big stars appeared as extras in that film.

As for METROPOLIS, arguably the most famous silent film, and one with one Hell of a history.  I bought the DVD version 10 years ago and have yet to update it with the new version with footage that had recently been found.  Great film, fantastic effects that still look good by even today's standards, a good story, and lots of spectacle and great set pieces. 

[Giff me dat fill-em!]

eariy movie "trailers" ... see if this one from "Metropolis" is even near believable by old farts like us standards (click on the "original movie trailer" icon)
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=metropolis+1927+movie+clips&FORM=VIRE7#view=detail&mid=FC9B0765FEB54AC0A69FFC9B0765FEB54AC0A69Fopic

Okay ... this internet garbage was NOTHING like what happened to patrons of the celluloid arts in the early 20th ... when WAS the FIRST film trailer (of any film) EVER shown to film audiences?

[Signor Spumoni]

In case any members live in or near Chicago, you may be interested in this:
http://silentfilmchicago.com/index.htm
They're having a silent horror film festival next weekend, 12-14.October.  If I lived anywhere nearby, I'd definitely become a member!  I like the Mad Scientist costume contest.   

[metaldams]

In case any members live in or near Chicago, you may be interested in this:
http://silentfilmchicago.com/index.htm
They're having a silent horror film festival next weekend, 12-14.October.  If I lived anywhere nearby, I'd definitely become a member!  I like the Mad Scientist costume contest.   

That's fantastic!  Too bad I don't live in Chicago either.  I've never even seen THE HANDS OF ORLAC or THE MONSTER.  The former I know is the silent of version of one of my favorite talking horrors, and probably my favorite film with Ted Healy in it, MAD LOVE. 

I've only seen a silent film publicly once, and it was Douglas Fairbank's a THE MARK OF ZORRO at the Grand Opera House in Wilmington, DE.  A great experience! Also the city Buster Keaton made his professional debut on vaudeville when he was five years old.

[Signor Spumoni]

eariy movie "trailers" ... see if this one from "Metropolis" is even near believable by old farts like us standards (click on the "original movie trailer" icon)
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=metropolis+1927+movie+clips&FORM=VIRE7#view=detail&mid=FC9B0765FEB54AC0A69FFC9B0765FEB54AC0A69Fopic

Okay ... this internet garbage was NOTHING like what happened to patrons of the celluloid arts in the early 20th ... when WAS the FIRST film trailer (of any film) EVER shown to film audiences?

I don't know when the first trailer was shown - - tell us.

Happy 119th birthday today to Buster Keaton!   

[Signor Spumoni]

Another happy birthday wish for today:  Jimmie Adams, who would have been 126 years old.   

http://travsd.wordpress.com/2014/10/04/stars-of-slapstick-197-jimmie-adams/

[Svengarlic]

Continued from the MYSTERY ACTOR thread

To answer the other part of your question Sig, there was an ongoing theme in the Chaney films: pathos. HIS pathos. He falls in love with the girl, girl likes him, girl runs off with less creepy guy, he laments.

    I suppose 'horrendous' is a good word to describe his films at the time; not so much today. The creepiest for me was the The Unknown. His leading lady was Lucille La Seuer.

*CONCLUSION*
There's a scene where Chaney's rival, a circus strong man, is stretched between two massive horses. The implications had to be "horrific" for '20s audiences. I'm not going to reveal the plot, however, as it's really worth watching IMO.

   An example of the overly expressive acting going on in those days is typified in this 2 minute scene from The Miracle Man, where Chaney's bodily expression is exaggerated quite effectively. It is said that it was his appearance in this film that he was finally catapulted to audience awareness, after years of un-billed roles.

   I'm sure that scads of his films are on You Tube. Another of the few films I saw and liked had Lon's sadistic character walking on stumped legs. I'm sure Metal can take it from here. He knows the Silents. 

[Signor Spumoni]

Well, Sven, it doesn't take much to horrify me.  When I was young, I loved the Chamber of Horrors in wax museums; I just loved wax museums, as a matter of fact.  But sometime in my maturity (a-hem), I became sensitive to a great many things, including movie depictions of horror.  I think it's because I used to read a lot of true-crime books.  Who knows? 

Thank you for your information, and for that excellent photo of LC on stumps.  We know he must have been pain because in that costume.  It can't have felt good to have his legs pinned behind him.  Just imagine what he would think about today's special effects where everything is computer generated!

As to what you describe as "overly expressive acting" from the silents:  I read that audiences were not excited, at first, about sound in movies.  Many people said it detracted from the story and from the acting.  That's interesting from our point of view of there always having been sound in movies.

[Svengarlic]

As to what you describe as "overly expressive acting" from the silents:  I read that audiences were not excited, at first, about sound in movies.  Many people said it detracted from the story and from the acting.  That's interesting from our point of view of there always having been sound in movies.

I tell you Man, I don't blame them. The early talkies were shitty! But the   Silents had been honed to an art. A real art. Even the "code" talkies, tho' provocative, I find unwatchable due to the stilted speech of the actors, variations in volume, and the intermittent hissing sounds. Yuck!

[Signor Spumoni]

I tell you Man, I don't blame them. The early talkies were shitty! But the   Silents had been honed to an art. A real art. Even the "code" talkies, tho' provocative, I find unwatchable due to the stilted speech of the actors, variations in volume, and the intermittent hissing sounds. Yuck!

Re:  the hissing sounds - - when I watched early 1930s movies with my mother on TV when I was little, we would hear those hissing sounds and Mom would say, "Sounds like somebody's frying bacon and eggs!" 

Everything you described reminds me of "Singin' In The Rain."    They really got all that right.

I saw a pre-code movie last year in which it appeared to me that the actor not only made an obscene gesture but also used the appropriate phrase.  His hand was blurred, presumably to obscure the gesture, and his words were cut off so that all that was left was "...and the horse you rode in on!"  It reminds me of rumors claiming that sometimes the silent movie actors added obscenities to their lines.  But that could be an urban legend.

[Svengarlic]

Re:  the hissing sounds - - when I watched early 1930s movies with my mother on TV when I was little, we would hear those hissing sounds and Mom would say, "Sounds like somebody's frying bacon and eggs!" 

Everything you described reminds me of "Singin' In The Rain."    They really got all that right.

I saw a pre-code movie last year in which it appeared to me that the actor not only made an obscene gesture but also used the appropriate phrase.  His hand was blurred, presumably to obscure the gesture, and his words were cut off so that all that was left was "...and the horse you rode in on!"  It reminds me of rumors claiming that sometimes the silent movie actors added obscenities to their lines.  But that could be an urban legend.

There's several outake vids on You Tube from the '30s, but how many times can you stand hearing "Nuts" and "Shit!"

Here's the Porky Pig "outake" that I assume was used for Warner Bros. Christmas parties or something. 

[metaldams]

I'll get to more in depth comments about Chaney and THE UNKNOWN later, though Svengarlic already made some great observations.

About late silents and early talkies.  One of the tragedies about talkies overtaking silents is that late silents are a thousand times better than early talkies.  1928 especially had some fantastic silent films, I just watched THE LAST COMMAND last week, which is one of them.  People talk about the overacting in silents, but by the end, the acting in the great American silents was getting more natural and the camera work was getting better and better all the time.  In other words, the form died as it was reaching new artistic heights.  A tragedy.

People were more attracted to technology and the novelty of people talking, so talkies took over, and the 1929 and 1930 talkies, for the most part, are dreadful.  Stage actors reciting lines in an exaggerated manner not fit for film acting, cameras being glued to the ground again because they couldn't be far away from the boom mics - it's as if they had to take fifty steps back before moving forward. 

By the way, when it comes to the two most famous movies dealing with this transition of the film industry, I'll be controversial and take THE ARTIST over SINGING IN THE RAIN anyday.  The former feels respectful, the latter mocking.  Those were the impressions I came away with.

[metaldams]

One of my favorites, the visually stunning INTOLERANCE (1916)

[Big Chief Apumtagribonitz]

I've seen three silent movies in a theater in my whole life, all at different times:  Big Business, The Circus, and The General.  Beginner's luck, maybe.  My strongest memory is that the audience at Big Business went absolutely ape-shit.

[Svengarlic]

Believe it or not, I have seen the 1925 silent BEN HUR but never the 1959 version.  I actually have a DVD copy lying around of the 1959 version, which makes it crazier I haven't watched it yet.  BEN HUR is great, and I think a lot of big stars appeared as extras in that film.
 

Well, I can give you an adult review as I was damn near 30 before I saw it. It's excellent!......for about 2 hours. After Messala's death by mutilation in the Chariot race you can head for the exit. After the excitement of the race the rest is an afterthought. A boring afterthought.

I would urge you to watch it on the big screen if possible, or window boxed on a large flat screen. I'm not saying that it plays better than the original, but I'v seen both Chariot scenes. Not a flaw in either, but CinemaScope gets the nod.   

[Giff me dat fill-em!]

I don't know when the first trailer was shown - - tell us.

Happy 119th birthday today to Buster Keaton!   

I will give it a half hearted internet search, but as you may well know ... "internet knowledge is only as smart as the dumb saps reporting what they have found on the internet" (that's an old saying that I just made up) ... I was hoping one of our illustrious Stooge page readers would see this an have intimate knowledge of the first movie trailer EVER

[Svengarlic]

 

Conrad Veidt

   Modern movie buffs know this face as the Nazi Officer in Casablanca, but Silent's officianados remember him best from The Man Who Laughs (1929), adapted from the Victor Hugo novel. It was a drama, but the German Expressionism influence of shadows, weird angles and such gave it the definite feel of horror. (not to mention Veidt had the most evil pair of eyes I ever saw!)

   PETER BOGDANOVICH asserted that 1928 was the greatest year of the silent era. I don't know if that opinion is shared. I don't know one way or the other. I haven't seen the movie, but I saw the remake, William Castle's Mr. Sardonicus (1961)
 
  I heavily suspect that D.C's Bob Kane was inspired by Veidt.

[metaldams]

Conrad Veidt

   Modern movie buffs know this face as the Nazi Officer in Casablanca, but Silent's officianados remember him best from The Man Who Laughs (1929), adapted from the Victor Hugo novel. It was a drama, but the German Expressionism influence of shadows, weird angles and such gave it the definite feel of horror. (not to mention Veidt had the most evil pair of eyes I ever saw!)

   PETER BOGDANOVICH asserted that 1928 was the greatest year of the silent era. I don't know if that opinion is shared. I don't know one way or the other. I haven't seen the movie, but I saw the remake, William Castle's Mr. Sardonicus (1961)
 
  I heavily suspect that D.C's Bob Kane was inspired by Veidt.

I agree with Bogdanovich about 1928 being the greatest silent year, but ironically, I always found THE MAN WHO LAUGHS to be to maudlin.  A shame, because it's a film I really want to like and will give another chance.  But 1928, we're talking STEAMBOAT BILL, JR.; THE CAMERAMAN, THE CIRCUS, THE WIND, THE PASSION OF JOAN OF ARC, SPEEDY, SHOW PEOPLE, THE CROWD, LAUGH CLOWN LAUGH, THE LAST COMMAND....and those are just the great ones I've seen.

But as far as Conrad Veidt and silent, I'll take the 1919 classic, and probably the first great horror feature ever, THE CABINET OF DR. CALIGARI.

[metaldams]

Peter Bogdanovich article about 1928.  Oh yeah, DOCKS OF NEW YORK another one!

http://blogs.indiewire.com/peterbogdanovich/1928_the_last_and_greatest_year_of_the_original_motion_picture_art_b.s._bef

[Svengarlic]

   I read the the Bogdanovich article. Quite eye opening. It had occurred to me that it was the weight of the Oscars bagged by Wind in '39 that influenced the prevalent opinion. Oz was a cash cow and made no ripple at the box office, but later became a classic, largely due to television.

   I've been avoiding TCM's Silent Sunday Nights for years, but I DO keep my eye out for titles that interest me. Unfortunately they seem to show mostly foreign films.
   You know, one of the things that spoil silent's for me is the fucking way they handled the dialog text by leaving the action and putting up the words. It's like turning the house lights on and off every ten seconds. I guess those audiences were used to it. Distracting.

   I wonder: did they ever get around to subtitles, or was that a talkie innovation?

[Signor Spumoni]

Metaldams, I'd like to know your opinion on the looks of the monster in the 1910 short, "Frankenstein."  I have seen the production still used here and there, usually with a humorous caption (something such as, "Bad hair day!").  I remember my grandmother telling how she was so scared she hid under her seat when she saw "Frankenstein."  Those are very different takes on the monster.  So do you think the makeup and costume succeed in being frightening?

[metaldams]

   I've been avoiding TCM's Silent Sunday Nights for years, but I DO keep my eye out for titles that interest me. Unfortunately they seem to show mostly foreign films.
   You know, one of the things that spoil silent's for me is the fucking way they handled the dialog text by leaving the action and putting up the words. It's like turning the house lights on and off every ten seconds. I guess those audiences were used to it. Distracting.

   I wonder: did they ever get around to subtitles, or was that a talkie innovation?

I never saw a silent film with subtitles, always cards.  The less cards there were, the better in my opinion.  Chaplin and Keaton used to have friendly competitions to see who can have less title cards in their films.  Great silent films tell the majority of their story visually.  It's a lost art form.

I don't know why a foreign silent film would be a problem since they make the cards in English, but if you ever want to see a silent film without a single title card, check out F.W. Murnau's THE LAST LAUGH (1924).  Great film, and the same director as NOSFERATU.

[metaldams]

Metaldams, I'd like to know your opinion on the looks of the monster in the 1910 short, "Frankenstein."  I have seen the production still used here and there, usually with a humorous caption (something such as, "Bad hair day!").  I remember my grandmother telling how she was so scared she hid under her seat when she saw "Frankenstein."  Those are very different takes on the monster.  So do you think the makeup and costume succeed in being frightening?

The 1910 FRANKENSTEIN monster looks goofy to me.  I'll put it to you this way, the majority of silent films pre BIRTH OF A NATION, minus the occasional early Italian feature epic, is usually more historically interesting than entertaining to me.