Topic: 2012 Presidential Election

[metaldams]

This board needs a shake up and some fire, so I'll ask a question and I know we're all just going to get along just fine.  Vote and discuss, this should be interesting.

[Dunrobin]

Okay, this is just spooky.  I was quite literally thinking about starting this exact same topic and poll an hour ago, but decided to put it off.   

[Curly4444]

We need a none of the above option. I ain't voting for any of them. Also shouldn't we wait till its down to just two?

[metaldams]

We need a none of the above option. I ain't voting for any of them. Also shouldn't we wait till its down to just two?

It's not about who you think is going to win (I think Obama will get re-elected), it's who you want to win, (I want Ron Paul), so narrowing it down to two seems pointless to me.  There's more options now, which makes for a better poll than when the inevitable two get mainstream attention in the fall.

I'm also assuming you mean you're not voting at all, but since this site allows 5 in a poll, I can't throw in a 6th option of none of the above or 3rd party.  If somebody wants nobody or a third party, they can just write it in.

[Dunrobin]

My choice (which will be obvious to any old-timers on the board) is Ron Paul.  To me, there isn't any other choice*; if Ron Paul isn't our next President, this country (and the rest of the world) is just screwed.  Stick a fork in us, we're done.

To use George Wallace's immortal phrase, "there ain't a dime's** worth of difference between 'em."  I thought he was nuts when I heard him use that line back in 1972, but his observation certainly rings true today.  The election or re-election of any of the other candidates will result in absolutely no change in domestic or foreign policy.  They will all continue to expand the Empire abroad and the Police State at home.  They will all spend us into total bankruptcy. 


* Caveat:  I kind of like former Republican Gov. Gary Johnson from New Mexico, who is running for the Libertarian Party nomination after getting absolutely no attention from the Republican establishment.  I would have preferred to see an Ron Paul/Gary Johnson ticket, and I think that Ron Paul is hands down the better choice between the two, but Johnson is miles above Obama or any of the other GOP candidates.  He should be added to the poll.

**  Just to drive the point home on how badly we have been getting screwed over the years, you need 56 cents in today's phony "money" to have the same purchasing power of that dime in 1972.  The dollar today is worth less than one-fifth of what it was worth just 40 years ago, and it's worth only 4 cents compared to 1913, when the Federal Reserve was started.  How is that for one hell of a successful scam?

[metaldams]

Nevermind, I just noticed add option!

[Curly4444]

I'm also assuming you mean you're not voting at all, but since allows 5 in a poll, I can't throw in a 6th option of none of the above or 3rd party.  If somebody wants nobody or a third party, they can just write it in.

I meant not voting at all, as in the real election. Here i would mark none of the above, as i dont care to see any of them win.

Cool, I see you added the none of them option.

[Dunrobin]

Nevermind, I just noticed add option!

Doug, I just modified your poll a bit to add Party labels and Gary Johnson into the mix.  I hope you don't mind.   

[Curly4444]

Can someone change mine to "None of the Above". It was none of them where i voted and it got changed to Other (Identify in a reply).

[metaldams]

Doug, I just modified your poll a bit to add Party labels and Gary Johnson into the mix.  I hope you don't mind.   

I take it you'll get this since you watch South Park.

[Dunrobin]

I take it you'll get this since you watch South Park.

LMAO!  I was just watching that episode again last night with my brother.  I hadn't seen the original clip before, though, which makes it every funnier.   

[Dunrobin]

Can someone change mine to "None of the Above". It was none of them where i voted and it got changed to Other (Identify in a reply).

Sorry, that was my bad.  I must have edited the poll just after Doug.  I can't change your vote myself, but I just enabled the option that lets you do it.

UPDATE:  I figured out how to correct your vote to "None of the Above" directly in the database, so you don't need to do it now, Curly4444.  I'll leave the option turned on to allow users to change their votes, however.

[metaldams]

I was never really into politics until the past few months.  With Ron Paul and Libertarian ideals, the introduction was from this site, so that's how the seed was planted.  I've always thought Libertarian, even when I was a teenager I never understood why prostitution and drugs were illegal, and I've never partaken in either.

Then this past winter I'm watching the debates with my Dad, who is a Gingrich fan and general establishment Republican type, bored out of my mind until Ron Paul started speaking.  Ron Paul would always add some history to make his points and seemed very credible, 1953 and Iran being an example.  No other candidates would go there.

The final straw funnily enough, was me searching you tube for Ted Nugent concert footage.  Naturally with Ted, you'll find links to political clips, so I clicked on some of his talk show stuff out of curiosity and then saw Ron Paul links.  The floodgates opened for good that night, and now I'm reading LIBERTY DEFINED and am trying to figure out this Austrian vs. Keynesian economic debate. 

Never thought I'd be into politics in a million years, thought it was all bullshit, but what I've discovered most is that it's awesome to believe in something bigger than oneself, and I'd advise it to anybody looking for something deeper in life, even if what you believe is the complete opposite of me.

[vomit]

I was never really into politics until the past few months.  With Ron Paul and Libertarian ideals, the introduction was from this site, so that's how the seed was planted.  I've always thought Libertarian, even when I was a teenager I never understood why prostitution and drugs were illegal, and I've never partaken in either.

Then this past winter I'm watching the debates with my Dad, who is a Gingrich fan and general establishment Republican type, bored out of my mind until Ron Paul started speaking.  Ron Paul would always add some history to make his points and seemed very credible, 1953 and Iran being an example.  No other candidates would go there.

The final straw funnily enough, was me searching you tube for Ted Nugent concert footage.  Naturally with Ted, you'll find links to political clips, so I clicked on some of his talk show stuff out of curiosity and then saw Ron Paul links.  The floodgates opened for good that night, and now I'm reading LIBERTY DEFINED and am trying to figure out this Austrian vs. Keynesian economic debate. 

Never thought I'd be into politics in a million years, thought it was all bullshit, but what I've discovered most is that it's awesome to believe in something bigger than oneself, and I'd advise it to anybody looking for something deeper in life, even if what you believe is the complete opposite of me.

I started researching Ron Paul before the last election...and read a book or two from him, and saw him in Aaron Russo's "America: From Freedom to Fascism".  I was sold.  But acknowledged that the machine in charge of all politics would NEVER let him see a general election.  Proven true twice now.  I explained his positions to a friend who said "That's way too radical!"

Exactly.

Can't we see where "politics as usual" is taking us?  Down the road to bankruptcy, endless wars, the end of our civil rights, and the dissolution of the middle class.

A little something "radical" may have been our only hope.  But the "powers behind the scenes" won't let that happen.  Depressing.  Time for a Blatz.

[metaldams]

I started researching Ron Paul before the last election...and read a book or two from him, and saw him in Aaron Russo's "America: From Freedom to Fascism".  I was sold.  But acknowledged that the machine in charge of all politics would NEVER let him see a general election.  Proven true twice now.  I explained his positions to a friend who said "That's way too radical!"

Exactly.

Can't we see where "politics as usual" is taking us?  Down the road to bankruptcy, endless wars, the end of our civil rights, and the dissolution of the middle class.

A little something "radical" may have been our only hope.  But the "powers behind the scenes" won't let that happen.  Depressing.  Time for a Blatz.

Agree with everything you said.  I tried explaining Ron Paul to my brother, and before I could even get to policy, he doesn't understand why I can get behind a guy who has no chance of winning.  Oy vey!

The question is if we have the time to wait, but the good news is Ron Paul can get between 5,000 - 8,000 young adults listening to his speeches at college campuses, so a good amount of people believe in his philosophy, and I'd hope some leader would emerge from this generation who would change things and then decide not to lead us and let us be.

[Bruckman]

Ron Paul is the only candidate with any real ideas about our economic problems. Everyone else wats to ignore them in the hope they'll correct themselves, which seems to be the overhwleming republican mandate at present. Santorum denies we even have any economic woes in this country and even if we did, it's not the gov'ts job to correct them even when it was governmental overspending, fighting wars on 3 different fronts, maintaining almost 200 military bases across the globe, etc. that has put us so far in the hole. Ron Paul's ideas are not going to be popular because they consist of large cuts to military-industrial spending and various social programs but at least he is realistic enough to see where deficit spending is leading our country. To hear Santorum say that job creation is not the problem, freedom is the problem is to profane the word "freedom" in such a way that only yahoos who  like to talk freedom, mindlessly wave the flag and other hyperactive patriotic bullshit approve. Unfortunately we have a lot more of those than we do people who are willing to accept some individual sacrifice in the name of keeping the country together. Fuck waging wars that line the pockets of corporate CEOs with profits, most of whom probably pay less in taxes than I do since I can't afford a tax attorney who can find creative deductions. If the last 10 years hasn't shown the folly of wars waged for alleged creation of democratic foreign governments (i.e. governments willing to give access to US corporations) nothing will, but some people don't want to see it I guess.

Sorry but I consider both Republican and Democratic parties to be obverse and reverse of the same corrupt coin at this point, based on the candidates other than Dr. Paul.

I was just saying to my roommate last night, "Why do i pay taxes to a government that fails to do its job, namely protecting its citizens' freedom? I feel like I am paying money to the warden of the penitentiary in which I'm incarcerated. Only in prison I'd get health care, dental, free books and the state would pay for my re-education under the name of rehab. Plus I'd get to lift weights for free."

[vomit]

Sorry but I consider both Republican and Democratic parties to be obverse and reverse of the same corrupt coin at this point, based on the candidates other than Dr. Paul.

I'll buy that for a dollar.  The "two" parties are mirror images in most ways & controlled by the elite, with the disingenuous thought of giving the rabble a "choice".  Other parties are maginalized and made insignificant.  End result, over 100+ years of the same BS.  All seems futile at this point.

[metaldams]

These posts are worth their weight in gold, pun intended.

[vomit]

These posts are worth their weight in gold, pun intended.

Indeed.  The GOLD standard.  And we need that in this country.

[Dunrobin]

Sorry but I consider both Republican and Democratic parties to be obverse and reverse of the same corrupt coin at this point, based on the candidates other than Dr. Paul.

I was just saying to my roommate last night, "Why do i pay taxes to a government that fails to do its job, namely protecting its citizens' freedom? I feel like I am paying money to the warden of the penitentiary in which I'm incarcerated. Only in prison I'd get health care, dental, free books and the state would pay for my re-education under the name of rehab. Plus I'd get to lift weights for free."

I'll buy that for a dollar.  The "two" parties are mirror images in most ways & controlled by the elite, with the disingenuous thought of giving the rabble a "choice".  Other parties are maginalized and made insignificant.  End result, over 100+ years of the same BS.  All seems futile at this point.

Indeed.  The GOLD standard.  And we need that in this country.

I can't tell you guys how happy I am to see that more people are waking up to what has been going on in this country.  There have been times when I wondered if I was the only one.

[metaldams]

To give you an idea how far Ron Paul and Libertarian beliefs have come over the years, check out this footage from 1988 on the Morton Downey, Jr. show.  I'm embarrassed for him in this freak show environment.  While he certainly gets ignored these days for the most part, at least his voice is heard just enough where he's no longer on par with the Communist candidate, like he basically was in 1988.  Sadly, change takes time.

Before

After

Same message, but the forum has "improved."  He's actually damn funny at 2:06 in the latter, he should be in the Stooge movie.  But kidding aside, same message, but he went from a freak show to a legitimate debate.

Also, notice the difference in crowd reaction.  The clips speak for themselves.

[metaldams]

One more for the road, his recent speech at Chico University.  He does not do a one fingered gun point piano solo, but he gives a good speech.  There's a few more of these on youtube as well, look 'em up.

[shemps#1]

If Paul were to come from behind and leapfrog the other turd sandwiches and get the Republicrat (Democan?) nomination I would have to wait for his decision on a VP running mate before I could cast my vote. The man is 76 years old after all, and it was the thought of Sarah Palin taking over for McCain that scared the shit out of me four years ago. I kinda wish some other Democans (Republicrats?) would have ran against Obama in the primaries this year. Looks like I'll be staying home this year again, unless they include an option of "no confidence" on the ballot. Ron Paul supports legal weed...so does Pat Robertson. Think about that!

[shemps#1]

Oh, there is also the whole "I don't believe in Evolution" BS. I would prefer that the man running the country knows the difference between the normal usage of the word "theory" and the scientific one.

[Dunrobin]

While he certainly gets ignored these days for the most part, at least his voice is heard just enough where he's no longer on par with the Communist candidate, like he basically was in 1988.  Sadly, change takes time.

He is getting ignored and dismissed by the mainstream media (all owned by a half-dozen corporations,) but not by the people.  He has been drawing massive crowds at his rallies in California.  Check out these crowd shots:

Early Crowd At Ron Paul Rally Berkeley 4/5/12

Ron Paul draws crowd of 10,000 at UCLA!

I believe that the only reason Ron Paul hasn't won any of the "beauty contest" votes in the primaries and caucuses so far is that the GOP establishment is blatantly rigging the votes.  They literally cancelled the voting in Maine towns that were Ron Paul strongholds to keep him from taking the state from Romney, there were shenanigans with the voting in Iowa and Nevada, and frankly I'm extremely suspicious of these electronic voting machines (which are demonstrably hackable) that they've fobbed off on us over the past few years.

Here's just one recent example of the crap the GOP establishment has been pulling.

Reality Check: North Dakota Caucus railroaded to give majority of delegates to Romney?