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2012 Baseball Thread

metaldams · 252 · 53139

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Offline metaldams

I remember a few years back, when a colleague of mine and I were discussing which Hall-of-Famers we’d even seen play. As I was considering catchers, the first two who quickly came to mind were Bench and Fisk—and then I remembered having seen Carter play in L.A. during his time as a Dodger. Carter is also, I believe, the first such Hall-of-Famer (whom I saw play) to pass away.

I’ll also never forget a story in a local paper about the 1980 All-Star Game, titled something such as “A Tale of Two Gar(r)ys.” The story was about Gary Carter, a young catcher who claimed (echoing a sentiment often attributed to Ringo Starr) that he’d be happy to be on the team just as a reserve—irrespective of whether got to play. Carter did make the team and did get to play, as a backup to perennial starter Johnny Bench. The following year, Carter was the starter, hit two homers, and was named MVP of the ’81 (post-strike) All-Star Game, the first of four consecutive starts (and of 7 starts in his next 8 years on the NL team).

The story was also about Garry Templeton, who the previous year infamously declared, “If I ain’t startin’, I ain’t departin’”; and in 1980, after Bill Russell ultimately won in a close vote for starting NL shortstop, Templeton got his wish and was NOT selected as a reserve—even though he was batting .327 with 23 steals at the break. He went on to make just one more appearance in the Midsummer Classic, as a non-starter with the Padres in 1985—and he never quite lived up to his billing as THE player to watch for the ‘80s, a lead-pipe cinch for Cooperstown. (Interestingly, the man whom the Cards traded Templeton for, Ozzie Smith, wound up departin’ for 15 All-Star games from 1981 to 1996, also startin’ in 11 games, 10 of those consecutive—and, along with Carter, is now enshrined at Cooperstown.)

R.I.P., ‘Kid’! Baseball today needs more players with your spirit, enthusiasm, and overall approach to the game!

Nice post Tony.  1986 was the first year I remember baseball, and I have distinct memories of Gary's extra inning go ahead hit in the 1986 NLCS, one of my very earliest baseball memories.  Still, at age 7, I didn't 100% grasp the significance of it.  Strange seeing a guy from my childhood die, but I have to get used it it.  That said, he was only 57, much too young.

I saw a future hall of famer pitch at Fenway Park as a starter, but he got lit up that day.  Definitely a hall of fame third baseman played this game.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/BOS/BOS199109070.shtml





- Doug Sarnecky


Offline Lefty

First, Wakefield:  The Phillies' record for consecutive games played without being shut out is 174.  It started after Doug Drabek blanked them in Pittsburgh on 9/19/92, and it ended 3 days before the 1993 season finished (9/30), also in Pittsburgh, when Wakefield did it.


Offline Lefty

Second, Carter:  A coworker of mine called into a radio station in Jersey and he told the world that when his son was 10, the two of them went down to Florida for a vacation in spring training to the Mets' place.  He said that just about every player scattered when their practice sessions were done, but every day, Gary Carter would hang around, giving autographs and taking pictures with fans until everyone had their opportunity.

As a Phillie-killer, Carter was very much disliked around here.  Other than that, I reckon he was quite a guy.  R.I.P., Kid!


Offline Shemp Shady

Nice post Tony.  1986 was the first year I remember baseball, and I have distinct memories of Gary's extra inning go ahead hit in the 1986 NLCS, one of my very earliest baseball memories.  Still, at age 7, I didn't 100% grasp the significance of it.  Strange seeing a guy from my childhood die, but I have to get used it it.  That said, he was only 57, much too young.

I saw a future hall of famer pitch at Fenway Park as a starter, but he got lit up that day.  Definitely a hall of fame third baseman played this game.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/BOS/BOS199109070.shtml

Thanks for the baseballreference link, Doug (indeed, one of my favorite websites!). Yes, Johnson (also a Trojan) is sure to make the Hall, despite a relatively inauspicious start to his career; at the time you saw that game, he was likely still considered more so a curiosity (or a ‘freak’) than someone with a viable shot at 300 victories. Coincidentally, Johnson, like Wakefield, pitched until his mid-40s—but the Unit was zipping 95-100(+) MPH fastballs much of the time (and his knuckles remained relatively callus-free).

I have a similar memory, of a young Mariano Rivera pitching in Anaheim—as a starter, and likely before he’d recorded even a single save! (I remember some people I went to the game with making comments such as, “Who the heck is that guy pitching for the Yankees?! At the rate he’s going, he won’t be around for long!”)

Your 9/7/91 experience at Fenway may also prove to have even bigger Cooperstown implications. As you’ve already noted, the game featured Wade Boggs, also one of the three HOF third baseman whom I’ve seen play (the other two: Schmidt and Brett).

But the guy playing third for Seattle that day, Edgar Martinez, has received over 30% of the vote in each of his first three years of candidacy. (But then again, Steve Garvey actually got more support early on in his 15 years, and Garvey is still not in the Hall; but yet AGAIN, Garvey has a lot of personal baggage, Martinez has long been well respected both on the field and off—and the award for the top DH is named for Edgar!) Some have opined that Martinez would (or should) be the second guy (after Molitor) voted in who played primarily as a DH—but the ‘Big Hurt’ is now likely to beat Edgar there. Martinez may not have had the cumulative career totals, but he did have over 2200 hits, over 1200 runs scored AND batted in, two AL batting titles, and one of the top career BAs for a right-handed hitter of his era (plus an over-.900 OPS, for a guy who was not even a traditional power hitter).

Then there’s Omar Vizquel, who played some at SS in your game. In another discussion I had with my colleague a few years back, we addressed which currently active players are likely to make the HOF, which would make it based on their current numbers and other accomplishments, which would make it on the first ballot, what certain other players still had to do to be considered viable candidates, and the like. And one of my outside picks, which shocked my colleague somewhat, was none other than Vizquel—and he’s STILL planning to play this year, when he’ll also be 45. Compare his numbers, both defensive and offensive, with those of Ozzie Smith or Luis Aparicio (Little O’s countryman). In fact, with nearly 2850 hits thus far, Vizquel seems to want to keep playing until he reaches the vaunted 3000 mark—even if he has to play until he’s 50!

And let’s not forget about Ken Griffey, Jr.—interestingly, another guy who was known as ‘the Kid’—who’s a lock as a first-ballot Hall-of-Famer. Over 600 homers, other great numbers and accomplishments, and nary a hint of chemical performance enhancement.

A side note on Wakefield: I’ve long waited for Chris Berman to refer to him as “Tim ‘The Vicar of’ Wakefield.”—but I guess that Berman wasn’t that big a fan of Oliver Goldsmith. (And for anyone who claims that such a reference is too obscure, how do you explain Todd “Avenging Annie” Pratt?!)
Eet ees a klasseek!!


Offline metaldams

Thanks for the baseballreference link, Doug (indeed, one of my favorite websites!). Yes, Johnson (also a Trojan) is sure to make the Hall, despite a relatively inauspicious start to his career; at the time you saw that game, he was likely still considered more so a curiosity (or a ‘freak’) than someone with a viable shot at 300 victories. Coincidentally, Johnson, like Wakefield, pitched until his mid-40s—but the Unit was zipping 95-100(+) MPH fastballs much of the time (and his knuckles remained relatively callus-free).

I have a similar memory, of a young Mariano Rivera pitching in Anaheim—as a starter, and likely before he’d recorded even a single save! (I remember some people I went to the game with making comments such as, “Who the heck is that guy pitching for the Yankees?! At the rate he’s going, he won’t be around for long!”)

Your 9/7/91 experience at Fenway may also prove to have even bigger Cooperstown implications. As you’ve already noted, the game featured Wade Boggs, also one of the three HOF third baseman whom I’ve seen play (the other two: Schmidt and Brett).

But the guy playing third for Seattle that day, Edgar Martinez, has received over 30% of the vote in each of his first three years of candidacy. (But then again, Steve Garvey actually got more support early on in his 15 years, and Garvey is still not in the Hall; but yet AGAIN, Garvey has a lot of personal baggage, Martinez has long been well respected both on the field and off—and the award for the top DH is named for Edgar!) Some have opined that Martinez would (or should) be the second guy (after Molitor) voted in who played primarily as a DH—but the ‘Big Hurt’ is now likely to beat Edgar there. Martinez may not have had the cumulative career totals, but he did have over 2200 hits, over 1200 runs scored AND batted in, two AL batting titles, and one of the top career BAs for a right-handed hitter of his era (plus an over-.900 OPS, for a guy who was not even a traditional power hitter).

Then there’s Omar Vizquel, who played some at SS in your game. In another discussion I had with my colleague a few years back, we addressed which currently active players are likely to make the HOF, which would make it based on their current numbers and other accomplishments, which would make it on the first ballot, what certain other players still had to do to be considered viable candidates, and the like. And one of my outside picks, which shocked my colleague somewhat, was none other than Vizquel—and he’s STILL planning to play this year, when he’ll also be 45. Compare his numbers, both defensive and offensive, with those of Ozzie Smith or Luis Aparicio (Little O’s countryman). In fact, with nearly 2850 hits thus far, Vizquel seems to want to keep playing until he reaches the vaunted 3000 mark—even if he has to play until he’s 50!

And let’s not forget about Ken Griffey, Jr.—interestingly, another guy who was known as ‘the Kid’—who’s a lock as a first-ballot Hall-of-Famer. Over 600 homers, other great numbers and accomplishments, and nary a hint of chemical performance enhancement.

A side note on Wakefield: I’ve long waited for Chris Berman to refer to him as “Tim ‘The Vicar of’ Wakefield.”—but I guess that Berman wasn’t that big a fan of Oliver Goldsmith. (And for anyone who claims that such a reference is too obscure, how do you explain Todd “Avenging Annie” Pratt?!)

Tony, when I saw "Griffey," I assumed it was Sr., but clicking on the link, you're right, it's Jr!  Definitely a hall of famer soon.  You're right about Omar Vizquel and Edgar Martinez too, both good ball players.  Though probably not a hall of famer, I see Tino Martinez played that game too as did Tony Pena, a good catcher who's now coaching for the Yankees.

The only reason I'm positive I was at this game was because I remember seeing Randy Johnson pitch against Boston at Fenway, and my mother took a picture of the scoreboard that day which she still has!  The line-ups were all listed, so because of this, I was able to look the game up online.  I was near the pole in right field and have distinct memories of seeing Randy Johnson warming up in the pen and being freaked out by how tall he was.

I saw two Red Sox/Yankee games at the old stadium in the pre-Jeter early 90's, but I have no clue what exact games they were.  All I remember is seats were much cheaper and easier to come by back then as I was sitting behind home plate and I believe the yanks won the 1st game and Boston the 2nd.

I can remember games I've been too of a more recent vintage, but the one that stands out the most is May 31, 2008 in Camden Yards in Baltimore.  Manny Ramirez hit his 500th home run that game.
- Doug Sarnecky



Offline shemps#1

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Offline metaldams


Offline metaldams

Here's what some Sox players had to say about Varitek.  No doubt his physical skills are diminishing, so it's good he's retiring, but he still has a great baseball mind, and I hear he'll still be in the organization in some capacity.  I hope they retire his number.

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2012/02/red_sox_react_t.html
- Doug Sarnecky


Offline metaldams

Fenway Park, as of today, is on the National Register of historic places.  A shame they couldn't do the same for old Yankee Stadium.

http://www.boston.com/Boston/metrodesk/2012/03/fenway-park-listed-national-register-historic-places/h6o533dRwnbK8phH7rOvbM/index.html
- Doug Sarnecky


Offline Shemp Shady

Of all things—just found out today that Any Pettitie is likely to be back in pinstripes by this summer. Next thing you know, the Bombers might be bringing back Whitey Ford. (And who knows?—I might even get to see Sandy Koufax pitch alongside Clayton Kershaw this year!)
Eet ees a klasseek!!


Offline Shemp_Diesel

So, how is that Boston media doing after the Sox pen pissed away a 9 to nothing lead. The fans must be burning Bobby V. in effigy right about now...
Talbot's body is the perfect home for the Monster's brain, which I will add to and subtract from in my experiments.


Offline metaldams

So, how is that Boston media doing after the Sox pen pissed away a 9 to nothing lead. The fans must be burning Bobby V. in effigy right about now...

Today was not Bobby V's fault.  Leaving Bard in too long the other day was, today was not. 

The Red Sox simply have no bullpen.  Boston tried to get two closers this past off-season, by Andrew Bailey is out until the all-star break and Mark Melancon and his 49.50 ERA is back in Pawtucket.  Now Aceves is the closer and I don't think he's mentally cut out for it.  He should be the long man.  Morales is the set up man now, but he's a better left handed specialist.  Let Bard close and hopefully solidify the closer role, bring up Aaron Cook to take Bard's rotation spot, and for set up, I'd go with Tazawa for now, but on a very short leash.

Ultimately, there is a very disgruntled clubhouse with issues dating at least since last season, and since I'm not privy to the specifics, I can't say what exactly needs to be done.  Henry, Lucchino, and Valentine met behind closed doors after the game, and they need to figure it out. 

- Doug Sarnecky


Offline falsealarms

Want something to feel good about? Will Middlebrooks, a 23-year-old 3B, is tearing it up in AAA. He already has 7 homers down there.

Middlebrooks will make 33-year-old Youkilis very expendable after the season when Youk is set to become a FA. There's no way his $13 M 2013 club option is going to be picked up.


Offline metaldams

Want something to feel good about? Will Middlebrooks, a 23-year-old 3B, is tearing it up in AAA. He already has 7 homers down there.

Middlebrooks will make 33-year-old Youkilis very expendable after the season when Youk is set to become a FA. There's no way his $13 M 2013 club option is going to be picked up.

Yeah, I know about Middlebrooks, no doubt he will be the third baseman next season barring a major Youk comeback, a trade for an established third baseman, or injury.

Boston also has a shortstop named Jose Iglesias who is supposed to have Ozzie Smith like skill with his glove but needs major work on his bat, but I think he's only 21 or 22 years old, so there's time.

Ryan Lavarnaway is also a catcher who has 25 - 30 HR a year power, but they say he needs to work on his defense.  All I know is something needs to kick this team in the ass.
- Doug Sarnecky


Offline falsealarms

Good read from today about Middlebrooks: http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/2012/04/will-middlebrooks-homers-in-fourth-straight-for-red-sox/

In part,

Quote
Middlebrooks has plus power to the middle of the field and showed last year that he could routinely drive the ball out of the park to the opposite field. Now he's starting to show he can turn on the ball and hit balls out to any part of the park in games; two of his home runs have gone to left field, one to left-center, two to center field, one to right-center and today's flew over the wall in right field. Scouts have said he's showing that he can turn on good fastballs inside and go the other way when he's pitched on the outer half.


Offline falsealarms


Offline metaldams

Another bomb for Middlebrooks, up to 8 on the year with 25 RBI.

http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?pos=3B&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=519025

That's incredible.  The 8 HR is one thing, but 25 RBI's this early?  Wow.

Bard actually got his 1st win of the season tonight.....in relief!  Cody Ross has been a good pick up so far, a 2 HR night that tied the game and gave us the lead, and he has 5 bombs so far. 
- Doug Sarnecky


Offline metaldams

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/yankees/if_it_closing_time_for_rivera_it_LpJPPqm0d9mQs41CV9R6ZK

Mariano Rivera may be done.  I'm a Red Sox fan and even I have to say this is tragic.  If it indeed is the end for Mariano, he is easily the greatest closer of his era and he always carried himself with class.  Loved the way he tipped his cap to Boston fans in '05 after the mock ovation he got for blowing a couple of playoff saves.  He handled that so well.

I did watch the Yankees and O's game on Monday night, I believe that was his last save.  I didn't know that may be the case at the time, but if it turns out to be that way, I'm glad I saw it.  Let's see if Robertson can step up now, I hope not.
- Doug Sarnecky



Offline metaldams

Youkilis who? http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=21206609&c_id=mlb

Here's another farmhand to get excited about: Matt Barnes: http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=598264

Yeah, that Middlebrooks grand slam got me excited yesterday, but we still lost a 17 inning game where a position player shut us out for two innings.  This team has not had any clutch or heart in a while, and I think if things don't turn around by the end of the month, they need to let Middlebrooks and some of the other kids play more, because if I'm going to follow a bad team, I'd rather it be with a bunch of young up and comers as opposed to a bunch over entitled veterans.
- Doug Sarnecky


Offline metaldams

While we're on a Middlebrooks watch, two more home runs for him today!  The Red Sox need some fire, and he may be it.  That said, 2 errors in 4 games as well, hopefully the defense will improve, but his bat....wow.
- Doug Sarnecky


Offline falsealarms

Can Middlebrooks Wally Pipp Youkilis? Probably not, but you never know.

Middlebrooks has a good reputation with the glove, so I think that'll be there eventually.

5/7 HR 1 http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=21236623&c_id=mlb

5/7 HR 2 http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=21244337&c_id=mlb


Offline metaldams

Can Middlebrooks Wally Pipp Youkilis? Probably not, but you never know.

Middlebrooks has a good reputation with the glove, so I think that'll be there eventually.

5/7 HR 1 http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=21236623&c_id=mlb

5/7 HR 2 http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=21244337&c_id=mlb

The great thing about those home runs is that he hit them to both fields. 

No, I don't think he'll Wally Pipp Kevin Youkilis.  If Boston is going to get any value trading Youk,  they'll need to play him.  After this year though?  Youk has about a 13 million dollar option next year while Middle brooks is under team control.  Barring any injuries or scandals, I can't see Middlebrooks not having the job next year if he continues to play like this.
- Doug Sarnecky


Offline falsealarms

If you're like me and enjoy the theatrics that ejections bring, this was a good night -

Charlie Manuel gets tossed and goes brim to brim with old timer ump "Balkin" Bob Davidson: http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=21456561

Toronto's manager and third baseman get tossed after a few horrible strike calls. Lawrie, the third baseman, is likely facing a suspension - http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=21468797