Topic: The Monkees

[metaldams]

didn't play on their own recordings! I can guarantee a few specific ones... Paul Revere & the Raiders, Mamas & Papas, Strawberry Alarm Clock all come to mind off the top of my head.

I know Jimmy Page, John Paul Jones and Ritchie Blackmore did tons of studio work on sessions like these before they joined the bands they got famous for in the late 60's.  "Ghosting" has always been very common in the music industry.

[shemps#1]

I don't sit down and take a morality test every time i listen to a song. I still watch Michael Vick play even though i think personally he is a piece of shit.

As far as Vick is concerned, I watch him play when the Eagles are on too. He was sentenced and did his time. I also root for him to lose and get his ass knocked out of the game like he did last week against Atlanta.

[metaldams]

Quad 4's: Perhaps you should. It's people like who say something like "Chris Benoit (wrestler who killed his wife and child before killing himself) should be remembered for his "great wrestling ability".

I generally let a lot, and I mean A LOT, slide for a person's morality if they entertain me.  The fact is if you're driven enough to be famous, a lot of times that is accompanied by less than desireable human qualities.

However, something extreme like the Chris Benoit case, and even Michael Vick, their acts are just so extreme that even someone like I would have to cross the line at some point and say enough is enough.  I guess we all have our own threshold.

[shemps#1]

I generally let a lot, and I mean A LOT, slide for a person's morality if they entertain me.  The fact is if you're driven enough to be famous, a lot of times that is accompanied by less than desireable human qualities.

However, something extreme like the Chris Benoit case, and even Michael Vick, their acts are just so extreme that even someone like I would have to cross the line at some point and say enough is enough.  I guess we all have our own threshold.

I too thought the Vick/Monkees comparison was a bit extreme but figured since Quad 4's was the one who brought it up I'd throw another extreme case in there.

Now if I can only get you to stop playing "good cop" and back me up on the Monkees. C'mon Doug, you know they suck...get in the trenches with me. I'm getting quadruple teamed here. You know you wanna. :p

[metaldams]

Now if I can only get you to stop playing "good cop" and back me up on the Monkees. C'mon Doug, you know they suck...get in the trenches with me. I'm getting quadruple teamed here. You know you wanna. :p

I just don't have that strong of an opinion either way.  On the negative side, I generally don't care for manufactured pop, but on the positive side, like Wayne mentioned, the Monkees did have better songwriters than say...The Backstreet Boys or whatever's been manufactured since, so this all leaves me right in the middle.

I'll join you in the trenches on Springsteen and U2.

[Seamus]

So where do Herman's Hermits fall within the Monkees-Beatles spectum?

[shemps#1]

So where do Herman's Hermits fall within the Monkees-Beatles spectum?

A couple of steps above the Monkees, nowhere near the Beatles.

[metaldams]

A couple of steps above the Monkees, nowhere near the Beatles.

How 'bout The Kinks?  Never heard you talk about them, and I consider Ray Davies to be one of the few songwriters who can match up to Lennon and McCartney.

[shemps#1]

How 'bout The Kinks?  Never heard you talk about them, and I consider Ray Davies to be one of the few songwriters who can match up to Lennon and McCartney.

Eh, middle of the road. I'm not going to buy their music but I'm not going to change the station when they come on either. I would say putting Ray Davies up there with Lennon/McCartney is a bit of a stretch.

[metaldams]

Eh, middle of the road. I'm not going to buy their music but I'm not going to change the station when they come on either. I would say putting Ray Davies up there with Lennon/McCartney is a bit of a stretch.

To each their own, but Ray's my all-time favorite lyricist.

[Desmond Of The Outer Sanctorum]

Disadvantages? What "disadvantages" did a "rock group" that was created by TV executives for the sole purpose of ripping off the Beatles have?

Let's look at the facts in regards to these hacks:

1. The Beatles were getting more "experimental" in their music and were leaving a hole in the pre-teen bubble gum scene. The Monkees were created to fill that hole.

2. Everything about the Monkees reeks of ripping off the Beatles pre-Rubber Soul. From their mannerisms on the show to the multiple singers...everything.

3. The Monkees did not even play their own instruments at first: they learned to do so only after getting together for the show and after having become a hit.

Yeah... those disadvantages.

At least they tried to rise above the fact that they were a fake rock group created by TV executives. Did they succeed? I wouldn't say so.

[shemps#1]

Yeah... those disadvantages.

At least they tried to rise above the fact that they were a fake rock group created by TV executives. Did they succeed? I wouldn't say so.

Of course not. Their problem is that Jones, Tork and Dolenz started believing the hype and got the silly idea that they could actually be a credible rock band. At least Nesmith was smart enough to see the writing on the wall and realize what a joke the Monkees were.

[shemps#1]

This very thread has compelled me to do something that as a fan a B movies I have been meaning to do for quite some time: watch the movie Head. Naturally the movie is bad, if any of you are going to try to debate THAT with me then you really need your head examined (and to tell me where you get your supply). I was never under the impression that it would be anything but terrible. One thing about this "movie" is that it manages to be boring and interesting at the same time.

Basically, this thing is a trainwreck. What I guess would count as a "plot" is that the Monkees keep getting themselves trapped in a box (they've never been accused of being subtle) that they want to get out of. Along the way we are skull-fucked from scene with a barrage of nonsensical bullshit. Davy Jones fights Sonny Liston, Dolenz finds a Coke machine in a desert, Peter waxes philosophical after reminding Dolenz that he plays "the Dummy", Frank Zappa has a pet cow...it doesn't stop until the end credits. It's nothing more than an onslaught of dumb-disjointed scene after dumb-disjointed scene interspersed with newsreel footage from Vietnam.

Leaving my hatred for the Monkees' music out (the sountrack, btw, is awful) it does appear that they are "trying too hard to be cool" and appeal to an older crowd than they are used to...you know the people who at the time wouldn't be caught dead being seen at a Monkees movie. This was as authentically psychedelic as Skidoo. Is it worth a viewing? Yes, as a curio it is worth a viewing. Is it any good? No.