2011 NFL season thread

vomit · **Reply #100 on:** January 24, 2012, 08:23:20 PM

I'm onboard with the Pats. As a disgruntled Dallas fan, I have no recourse. I was glad the Pack got ejected (I live in Upper Michigan where the Packer fans are like a plague), and now I just want to see Eli get his deserved BEATDOWN!!!

shemps#1 · **Reply #101 on:** January 28, 2012, 09:55:15 PM

Here's my "as unbiased as possible" take on Eli Manning.

Is Eli a Top 10 QB in the league today? Yes. He is a great QB and you can have a lot worse (just ask Denver or housemates the Jets about terrible QBs). Is he a Top 5 QB today, or an "Elite" QB? No. Brady, Peyton (he will be back), Brees, Rodgers, Rivers, Roethlesberger are all better than Eli overall and I'm not sure about Stafford and Newton (could very well be in the future). An "elite" QB has his team in contention year in and year out: i.e. making the playoffs consistently. That's not the ONLY mark of an "elite" QB but it is an important one. I think it's very presumptuous to put himself alongside Peyton and Brady and the like when he has failed to be consistent.

ILMM · **Reply #102 on:** January 29, 2012, 08:20:25 PM

Quote from: shemps#1 on January 28, 2012, 09:55:15 PM

Here's my "as unbiased as possible" take on Eli Manning.

Is Eli a Top 10 QB in the league today? Yes. He is a great QB and you can have a lot worse (just ask Denver or housemates the Jets about terrible QBs). Is he a Top 5 QB today, or an "Elite" QB? No. Brady, Peyton (he will be back), Brees, Rodgers, Rivers, Roethlesberger are all better than Eli overall and I'm not sure about Stafford and Newton (could very well be in the future). An "elite" QB has his team in contention year in and year out: i.e. making the playoffs consistently. That's not the ONLY mark of an "elite" QB but it is an important one. I think it's very presumptuous to put himself alongside Peyton and Brady and the like when he has failed to be consistent.

Here's the playoffs and Super Bowl W/Ls of the Qbs you mentioned.
Playoffs: W-L SB:
Brady: 16/5 .762 3of4 [1]
Roethlesberger: 10/4 .714 2of3
Eli: 7/3 .700 1of1 [1]
Rodgers: 4/2 .666 1of1
Brees: 5/4 .556 1of1
Peyton: 9/10 .474 1of2
Rivers: 3/4 .429 0
From this list Brady is the best, followed by Roethlesberger with Eli in third. Peyton's main exemplary is his
2nd best in playoff appearances with 2nd worst in w/l ratio. Eli appears to be the better bet in the playoffs,
and clearly the better Qb than Rivers. Now, like you said, there is more than one mark of an elite Qb,
I think with his play this year and his playoff ratio have backed-up his boast; and I think he will
out-play his brother in general from here-on-out.

shemps#1 · **Reply #103 on:** January 29, 2012, 11:27:48 PM

My point was there is more than just playoffs to factor in. Will Eli outplay Peyton from here on out? Probably since Peyton is 36 and 36 is old in NFL years. Will he ever be Peyton in his prime or as good as the other greats like Brady, Marino, Montana, Favre et. al.? Most likely not. I know a lot of NY fans like to help Eli puff up his ego, but let's be realistic here.

Marino never won a Super Bowl, would you say he wasn't an "elite" QB? Or that Eli is better than Marino ever was?

ILMM · **Reply #104 on:** January 30, 2012, 12:33:07 PM

Quote from: shemps#1 on January 29, 2012, 11:27:48 PM

My point was there is more than just playoffs to factor in. Will Eli outplay Peyton from here on out? Probably since Peyton is 36 and 36 is old in NFL years. Will he ever be Peyton in his prime or as good as the other greats like Brady, Marino, Montana, Favre et. al.? Most likely not. I know a lot of NY fans like to help Eli puff up his ego, but let's be realistic here.

Marino never won a Super Bowl, would you say he wasn't an "elite" QB? Or that Eli is better than Marino ever was?

I suppose he may not be overall as great a player as the others you mentioned, my point was
that he's done enough the be considered elite. Marino was elite, and was the individual better player,
but Eli has already achieved the ultimate goal and may win it again, and Marino never did, so
Eli may very-well be said to have had the better career.

shemps#1 · **Reply #105 on:** January 30, 2012, 02:00:37 PM

Quote from: ILMM on January 30, 2012, 12:33:07 PM

I suppose he may not be overall as great a player as the others you mentioned, my point was
that he's done enough the be considered elite. Marino was elite, and was the individual better player,
but Eli has already achieved the ultimate goal and may win it again, and Marino never did, so
Eli may very-well be said to have had the better career.

Playing Devil's Advocate here, Trent Dilfer is a Super Bowl winning QB. Does that mean he had a better career than Marino?

ILMM · **Reply #106 on:** January 30, 2012, 04:24:43 PM

Quote from: shemps#1 on January 30, 2012, 02:00:37 PM

Playing Devil's Advocate here, Trent Dilfer is a Super Bowl winning QB. Does that mean he had a better career than Marino?

No, probably not; you have me there. The difference between Eli and Dilfer is that Eli's play contributes
more to his team's success than Dilfer's did.

JazzBill · **Reply #107 on:** January 30, 2012, 06:15:55 PM

For as great as Peyton has been in his career he only has one Super Bowl win. And that was against a Chicago Bears team that won a couple key games but lucked into the playoffs by beating 2nd and 3rd string quarterbacks a few games. The first game against Detroit they won on a bad penalty that overturned a legit touchdown. Was Peyton as good as Brady? No. Is Eli as good as Peyton was? No, not yet. But Eli still has a few good years left. Peyton don't. I agree that a QB can be a great without a Super Bowl win but it sure don't hurt.
Speaking of the Super Bowl, it doesn't look like Gronkowski is going to be 100%. No suprise there, I still cringe when I see that play.

shemps#1 · **Reply #108 on:** January 30, 2012, 08:37:43 PM

The "Great Quarterbacks With No Super Bowl Rings In The Super Bowl Era" list is short indeed. Marino, Fran Tarkenton, Jim Kelly, Warren Moon...maybe the Philly combo of Cunningham and McNabb? There are probably a few here and there I am missing, but overall the list is short and I would put all of them ahead of Eli. Eli has had better teams, and in particular better defenses around him. We are also in an era where while there is parity the AFC has been better than the NFC the past decade despite the past couple of Super Bowls going to the NFC. Eli has had to face Tom Brady once every four years: Peyton, by virtue of the Colts and Pats being in first place more often than not, has had to face Tom Brady every year.

Gronk will be there 100% or not. After all he did come back in the AFC Championship after that play.

ILMM · **Reply #109 on:** January 31, 2012, 12:21:09 AM

Quote from: JazzBill on January 30, 2012, 06:15:55 PM

For as great as Peyton has been in his career he only has one Super Bowl win. And that was against a Chicago Bears team that won a couple key games but lucked into the playoffs by beating 2nd and 3rd string quarterbacks a few games. The first game against Detroit they won on a bad penalty that overturned a legit touchdown. Was Peyton as good as Brady? No. Is Eli as good as Peyton was? No, not yet. But Eli still has a few good years left. Peyton don't. I agree that a QB can be a great without a Super Bowl win but it sure don't hurt.
Speaking of the Super Bowl, it doesn't look like Gronkowski is going to be 100%. No suprise there, I still cringe when I see that play.

That Detroit game wasn't the Super Bowl year, it was the season before last.

ILMM · **Reply #110 on:** January 31, 2012, 12:23:56 AM

Quote from: shemps#1 on January 30, 2012, 08:37:43 PM

The "Great Quarterbacks With No Super Bowl Rings In The Super Bowl Era" list is short indeed. Marino, Fran Tarkenton, Jim Kelly, Warren Moon...maybe the Philly combo of Cunningham and McNabb? There are probably a few here and there I am missing, but overall the list is short and I would put all of them ahead of Eli. Eli has had better teams, and in particular better defenses around him. We are also in an era where while there is parity the AFC has been better than the NFC the past decade despite the past couple of Super Bowls going to the NFC. Eli has had to face Tom Brady once every four years: Peyton, by virtue of the Colts and Pats being in first place more often than not, has had to face Tom Brady every year.

Fair enough, I guess we'll see as his career goes on.

JazzBill · **Reply #111 on:** January 31, 2012, 04:51:34 AM

Quote from: ILMM on January 31, 2012, 12:21:09 AM

That Detroit game wasn't the Super Bowl year, it was the season before last.

You are correct sir, my mistake.

ILMM · **Reply #112 on:** February 04, 2012, 04:54:58 PM

Going to predict a Patriots win, 23-20.

Shemp_Diesel · **Reply #113 on:** February 04, 2012, 05:06:16 PM

Patriots 31, Giants 24

Liz · **Reply #114 on:** February 04, 2012, 05:38:17 PM

Patriots 17, Giants 16

JazzBill · **Reply #115 on:** February 04, 2012, 07:17:35 PM

Giants 27, Patriots 24

OldFred · **Reply #116 on:** February 05, 2012, 08:17:07 AM

Place yer bets, ya Mugs!

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Shemp_Diesel · **Reply #117 on:** February 05, 2012, 06:49:54 PM

Wow, a defensive struggle going into the half. I gotta say I wasn't expecting that. Brady looked magnificent on that last scoring drive.

JazzBill · **Reply #118 on:** February 05, 2012, 08:55:18 PM

Hey Hey!!!! I called that one. Fuck Brady..

shemps#1 · **Reply #119 on:** February 05, 2012, 08:55:53 PM

That sucked. At least I'm high. Fuck you Bill.

JazzBill · **Reply #120 on:** February 05, 2012, 09:03:35 PM

Quote from: shemps#1 on February 05, 2012, 08:55:53 PM

That sucked. At least I'm high. Fuck you Bill.

Ha Ha sore loser. Your high and I'm drunk. Big deal.

shemps#1 · **Reply #121 on:** February 05, 2012, 09:04:44 PM

Where was your team?

Shemp_Diesel · **Reply #122 on:** February 05, 2012, 09:12:42 PM

Well, nothing you can do but tip your cap to JazzBill & the Giants. The Pats had a chance to put the game away, but Brady missed a wide open Welker & Eli does it again.

JazzBill · **Reply #123 on:** February 05, 2012, 09:29:36 PM

Quote from: shemps#1 on February 05, 2012, 09:04:44 PM

Where was your team?

I live in Chicago but I'm not a real big Bears fan. I do like to gamble and my money was on the Giants. So my team was winning the Super Bowl.

shemps#1 · **Reply #124 on:** February 05, 2012, 09:40:46 PM

Quote from: JazzBill on February 05, 2012, 09:29:36 PM

I live in Chicago but I'm not a real big Bears fan. I do like to gamble and my money was on the Giants. So my team was winning the Super Bowl.

Ummm no. You cannot jump on the Giants bandwagon because you won some scratch. The Giant are not your team.

In my younger years I would be upset, but there is more to life than sports championships: weed and pussy. If they would have won great but oh well. Only thing is douche bag New Yorkers are happy and drunk in the streets.