Topic: This guy makes an awful lot of sense

[Bud_Jamison]

I just got back from 10 days in Amsterdam, Holland.  They have less crime and drug addiction than any metro area in the states.  This guy is dead right on all counts. Pot is only illegal in this country because of the influence of right wing cocksuckers and the groups he mentions having such great financial benefit from the laws.  I will back this guy 100% & I would never have anything to do with heroin, coke or any hard drug.

[Dunrobin]

I agree, Bud, except that I want to add that there are just as many hypocritical left-wing cocksuckers supporting the "War on Drugs" too.  There isn't a dime's worth of difference between them.

[ILMM]

Here's a question for the Pro-drug legalization crowd, Suppose drugs were made legal, and I was a business owner
and I wanted to drug-test potential employees, and refuse to hire drug-users for whatever reason [safety, insurance,
et cetera],Would you support my right to do so?

[shemps#1]

Yep, as the employer I would support your right to do that. If I had a business it would all depend on what that business was or what the job opening was. If it calls for operating heavy machinery I might test, but if I'm running a 7-11 or something I probably would not test a potential employee.

[Curly4444]

if I'm running a 7-11 or something I probably would not test a potential employee.

Tell me where that 7-11 is, i could steal shit so easy while that drugged out kid is stoned/high out of his ass. No matter what the business is, i wouldn't want my employees high. Well, maybe it wouldn't matter if a stripper was high??

[shemps#1]

Oh please; I have worked at a 7-11, high off of my ass and I had more stolen off of me sober than stoned. In fact, one time I was high while working at 7-11 and some kid try to steal a 12 pack of Bud and ran out the door. I went after him with box-cutter in hand and got the beer back. A slow monkey can do that job, at least for a little while anyway. The sheer monotony, combined with a few asshole customers and Bonzo will fling his shit at people in disgust and get him self canned in a week.

You watch too many After School Specials and have these stereotypical ideas of what a stoner is when in fact most people who may imbibe du temps en temps can function just fine and you probably wouldn't even know if they were high unless you were there lighting the bong for them. So spare me the "stoner just sits there and laughs like in Reefer Madness" stuff.

[ILMM]

Yep, as the employer I would support your right to do that. If I had a business it would all depend on what that business was or what the job opening was. If it calls for operating heavy machinery I might test, but if I'm running a 7-11 or something I probably would not test a potential employee.

Nice to know, I'm more sympathetic then not to the Pro-drug legalisation movement.

[Dunrobin]

Here's a question for the Pro-drug legalization crowd, Suppose drugs were made legal, and I was a business owner
and I wanted to drug-test potential employees, and refuse to hire drug-users for whatever reason [safety, insurance,
et cetera],Would you support my right to do so?

Absolutely.  You have every right to make that a condition of employment, and potential employees have every right to tell you to stuff your job offer.

Drug testing is actually pretty pointless, except for the government's "drug war."  For example, a marijuana user can test positive for THC for up to a month after using pot, but the actual effects of the drug wear off in a few hours; the user is not "stoned" for all that time.  What difference would it actually make to you as an employer if a productive employee smokes pot on the weekends when he's off?  How does that effect your business (especially if drugs are legal?)

As an employer, you have the right to terminate an employee for any reason (subject to any contractual obligations you may have entered into with the employee.)  If you feel that employee is not performing his job adequately, for whatever reason, you can fire him.  You don't need a drug test to do that.

[xraffle]

Tell me where that 7-11 is, i could steal shit so easy while that drugged out kid is stoned/high out of his ass. No matter what the business is, i wouldn't want my employees high. Well, maybe it wouldn't matter if a stripper was high??

Not all companies do drug testing and many of them have fine employees. Not drug testing doesn't necessarily equal stoned employees. I can understand why you wouldn't want drugs to be legalized, but I'm confused as to why you think employees need to be drug tested. As long as they're not high on the job, why should it matter what that person does outside work?

[xraffle]

Speaking of drugs, if any of you haven't seen the movie, Requiem For A Dream, I highly recommend you rent it and watch it. It's an excellent movie.

[Curly4444]

I'm confused as to why you think employees need to be drug tested. As long as they're not high on the job, why should it matter what that person does outside work?

Smoking a little weed on the weekends or whatever is fine, but if its the harder stuff, it changes things. I doubt that person can stop, and not do it while on the job. Which would eventually get them fired from bad job performance. Never said i was in favor of drug testing. Seeing i never touched an illegal drug in my life, I wouldn't want to go thru the hassle of getting tested. I was just hypothetically commenting on the 7-eleven thing from an franchise owners point of view.

[xraffle]

Seeing i never touched an illegal drug in my life, I wouldn't want to go thru the hassle of getting tested.

Same here, which is why I hate it. It's so much of a hassle to go through and when you think about it, it's rather pointless. Ok, so the person get's drug tested today and passes the test. What's to stop him/her from becoming a drug addict tomorrow, next week, etc? Not drug testing doesn't mean a person will be high on the job. And drug testing and passing the test doesn't guarantee that a person will not be high on the job. So, in my opinion, drug testing is so pointless.

[Curly4444]

Same here, which is why I hate it. It's so much of a hassle to go through and when you think about it, it's rather pointless. Ok, so the person get's drug tested today and passes the test. What's to stop him/her from becoming a drug addict tomorrow, next week, etc? Not drug testing doesn't mean a person will be high on the job. And drug testing and passing the test doesn't guarantee that a person will not be high on the job. So, in my opinion, drug testing is so pointless.

It is pointless. I hear you can buy urine(Piss) on the internet?? Lets hope they dont watch you go pee in the future for drug testing.   A man has the right to piss in private. 

[JazzBill]

I drive a truck for a living. When the DOT started giving CDL holders random drug tests I had to stop smoking pot. I figured making a living was more important than getting a buzz.

[xraffle]

It is pointless. I hear you can buy urine(Piss) on the internet?? Lets hope they dont watch you go pee in the future for drug testing.   A man has the right to piss in private.  

LOL! I agree. That reminds me of that guy in "American Beauty." He's a drug addict and gets drug tested by his father, but he switches piss when he gets tested. So, he always passes the test. So much for the drug test.  

[shemps#1]

Seeing i never touched an illegal drug in my life, I wouldn't want to go thru the hassle of getting tested. I was just hypothetically commenting on the 7-eleven thing from an franchise owners point of view.

That explains a lot. No offense Quad 4's, but the fact that you've never touched an illegal drug is one of the "red alerts" to take your opinion with a grain of salt. What's worse though are the former addicts who want to spoil the party for everyone else because they couldn't handle their shit. My first girlfriend tried Crack in the past, that doesn't make her a crackhead.

As Rob pointed out, if Xraffle was an employer and gave me a drug test and I tested positive for pot all it tells him is I have smoked pot within the past 30 days. It doesn't tell him that I am going to come to work stoned. The only time I would advocate drug testing is if it is painfully obvious that your employee is coming to work high and it is effecting their job performance.

[JazzBill]

Figure this out. It's not safe for you to drive a truck if you smoked a joint three weeks ago but it's safe if you have a massive hangover.

[metaldams]

That explains a lot. No offense Quad 4's, but the fact that you've never touched an illegal drug is one of the "red alerts" to take your opinion with a grain of salt.

That can work both ways.  I also have never tried illegal drugs, but I am for legalizing it all.  I know a guy who smokes pot everyday, he even grows his own, and I was having a conversation with him and my brother one day about legalizing pot, and he basically said the fact that me, somebody who doesn't touch the stuff, is for legalization actually speaks more volume than somebody who does smoke pot having the opinion.  The reason is I don't have a personal stake in legalizing pot.  It's just that I realize pot isn't the boogie man he governement claims it to be and I support other people's rights.

[Curly4444]

That explains a lot. No offense Quad 4's, but the fact that you've never touched an illegal drug is one of the "red alerts" to take your opinion with a grain of salt. What's worse though are the former addicts who want to spoil the party for everyone else because they couldn't handle their shit. My first girlfriend tried Crack in the past, that doesn't make her a crackhead.

I'm not against a little pot use, don't see it as that bad of a drug(from what i hear). Doesn't mean i'll do it, as i can get high by natural means(Yes, i know how corny that just sounded). Using any of the hard drugs it just plain stupid.

Your right, one use of crack wouldn't make her a crackhead, but it might indicate shes a hard drug user? If shes tried crack, what else has she done? No offense Shemps #1, but drug use is a sign of weakness to me(I'm not including a little alcohol or pot in this, just the hard narcotic shit).  I just hate drugs, and don't need a crutch to get me thru the day.

P.S. I'm not directing this at you man, just stating how i feel about drugs in general. I wasn't implying in any way that you used them. Hell, maybe you never done anything either?

[Curly4444]

The reason is I don't have a personal stake in legalizing pot.  It's just that I realize pot isn't the boogie man he governement claims it to be and I support other people's rights.

I agree it isn't that bad, and it can actually help cancer patients. I know if i was sick, id want plenty of this shit to ease the pain.

[JazzBill]

This always makes me laugh. 

[youtube=425,350]L1jB7RBGVGk[/youtube]

[shemps#1]

I've been pretty open about my pot use and quite frankly the implication that I would use it "just to get through the day" is a little insulting. I smoke because it's fun, not because I need a crutch. As for other drugs I have tried LSD and cocaine once each. The LSD was fun for the most part and coke was alright but nothing I would go out of my way to try again. Not everybody who uses drugs is on the verge of suicide and everybody doesn't become an addict after using a drug. It's like the Government saying if you smoke tobacco you will get cancer. Does it happen? Yes. Does it happen all the time? No. My grandmother is 83, smoked for more than 50 years and is still alive and kicking cancer free.

And yes, that "high on life" stuff is straight cornball.

[Curly4444]

I would use it "just to get through the day" is a little insulting.

As i said in my previous post, i wasn't implying that you use drugs as a crutch. I know very little about you personally, so i would never do that.



I'm relatively new here, and i don't know you guys that well. So i didn't know about the pot shemps#1. Did you mention that you do pot recently, maybe i just missed it? Or forgot?  

It's like the Government saying if you smoke tobacco you will get cancer. Does it happen? Yes. Does it happen all the time? No. My grandmother is 83, smoked for more than 50 years and is still alive and kicking cancer free.

I don't think they said smoking tobacco automatically causes cancer, it just increases your risks of getting cancer. With all the chemicals and crap in our food and water, i wouldn't want to add one more thing to that. Why some people can smoke all their lives and never get cancer, and some do? Beats the hell out of me. Good genes?

[ILMM]

Absolutely.  You have every right to make that a condition of employment, and potential employees have every right to tell you to stuff your job offer.

Drug testing is actually pretty pointless, except for the government's "drug war."  For example, a marijuana user can test positive for THC for up to a month after using pot, but the actual effects of the drug wear off in a few hours; the user is not "stoned" for all that time.  What difference would it actually make to you as an employer if a productive employee smokes pot on the weekends when he's off?  How does that effect your business (especially if drugs are legal?)

As an employer, you have the right to terminate an employee for any reason (subject to any contractual obligations you may have entered into with the employee.)  If you feel that employee is not performing his job adequately, for whatever reason, you can fire him.  You don't need a drug test to do that.

It depends on what my business is, if it's a fastfood place it probably won't effect me, but if I'm in heavy manufacturing; or do precision work
it might be worth my while to be extra cautious. Another thing is insurance costs; if I provide my employees with it, it may cost me more
if I don't try to ensure that my employees aren't users.

[shemps#1]

Look under my name, lol. "Pothead, Libertarian, Administrator, Resident Crank and Baron of Greymatter".

The pretty much do say you will get cancer if you smoke tobacco at the most. At the least they sure as hell imply that you will. I find the Government has been quite dishonest over the years and wouldn't trust anything they say about anything.