Topic: 60's Music Thread

[metaldams]

Oh, and Gary, as I'm sure you know, the Kinks are one of the few bands, if you own the Sanctuary re-issues, whose 60's material is released strictly in Mono until '68.  

That didn't read the way I wanted.  I meant to say a CD re-issue campaign in mono only until '68.  Obviously, The Kinks had stereo mixes in the 60's as well.

[falsealarms]

I have The Beatles Stereo box set. I got it for 99 bucks on Black Friday 2009 while the Mono set was over 200 bucks. The stereo set sounds great for the most part, but some of the earlier stuff seems a bit off in stereo. Hard to describe... maybe a bit harsh/loud at times. Then again, that earlier stuff wasn't originally designed with stereo in mind.

Here's a great Beatles song, one that Mojo Magazine once named the best song of all time:

[youtube=425,350]ukbbPJirTaE[/youtube]

[garystooge]

You also mention not being able to hear bass in mono, but I think it's sometimes the opposite.  Maybe it was the actual system you were using and not the mix, but I can think of several mono mixes where the bass and drums are a lot punchier than stereo.

Well, you're right because my "equipment" was that little transistor radio. I know those were well before your time, but trust me....they weren't known for producing booming bass.  Just finding a static-free station was about the best you could hope for! The only thing those radios were good for was sneaking under your pillow and secretly listening to the end of a ballgame while your parents thought you were asleep.

[metaldams]

Well, you're right because my "equipment" was that little transistor radio. I know those were well before your time, but trust me....they weren't known for producing booming bass.  Just finding a static-free station was about the best you could hope for! The only thing those radios were good for was sneaking under your pillow and secretly listening to the end of a ballgame while your parents thought you were asleep.

I can tell you my computer speakers produce zero bass, so I can imagine.

[stooged and confused]

I have The Beatles Stereo box set. I got it for 99 bucks on Black Friday 2009 while the Mono set was over 200 bucks. The stereo set sounds great for the most part, but some of the earlier stuff seems a bit off in stereo. Hard to describe... maybe a bit harsh/loud at times. Then again, that earlier stuff wasn't originally designed with stereo in mind.

Here's a great Beatles song, one that Mojo Magazine once named the best song of all time:

[youtube=425,350]ukbbPJirTaE[/youtube]

Yes, early songs like "Please Please Me", "She Loves You" and so on were NEVER recorded in stereo, those were given the "duophonic" treatment and they do sound muddy and the sound "bleeds" compared to the true mono mix.

[stooged and confused]

I know the Beatles were about mono, and that's always the example I hear.  Did every other rock act in 1967 truly not care about the stereo mix?  Until 1967, mono was the prefered choice of record buyers as many people didn't have stereo systems. In the case of The Beatles, Sgt. Pepper's was the last of their albums to be released in mono. It was all real stereo from that point on.

Until 1967, mono was the prefered choice of record buyers as many people didn't have stereo systems. In the case of The Beatles, Sgt. Pepper's was the last of their albums to be released in mono. It was all real stereo from that point on.[/quote]

[garystooge]

I know the Beatles were about mono, and that's always the example I hear.  Did every other rock act in 1967 truly not care about the stereo mix?

S&C already mentioned that not everyone had stereo equipment. In addition, there was no FM airplay in 1967. So whether you recorded 4,8 or 16 tracks, it still sounded like one-track on the radio. If you heard a song on the radio and went to buy the album, you might be content with a mono version since that was all you knew anyway (and it was cheaper to boot).

[metaldams]

Until 1967, mono was the prefered choice of record buyers as many people didn't have stereo systems. In the case of The Beatles, Sgt. Pepper's was the last of their albums to be released in mono. It was all real stereo from that point on.

Unless if you don't count it as a real album (due to the U.S./U.K. - compilation thing), MAGICAL MYSTERY TOUR was released in mono and The White Album has a (very) distinct mono mix, even though it was only released in the U.K.

[metaldams]

Yes, early songs like "Please Please Me", "She Loves You" and so on were NEVER recorded in stereo, those were given the "duophonic" treatment and they do sound muddy and the sound "bleeds" compared to the true mono mix.

This is correct, and in addition, you can hear actual mistakes in the stereo mixes, which shows how little care went into them.  In the song "Please, Please Me," you can actually hear a mistake in the vocal harmony followed by slight laughter.  "I Should Have Known Better," has a botched sounding harmonica intro as well.

Yeah False, for the very early stuff especially, definitely check out the mono mixes.  You can do some youtube searches for examples, though I'm not sure of the quality of your speakers.  The first three albums sound awful in stereo, in my opinion.

[metaldams]

S&C already mentioned that not everyone had stereo equipment. In addition, there was no FM airplay in 1967. So whether you recorded 4,8 or 16 tracks, it still sounded like one-track on the radio. If you heard a song on the radio and went to buy the album, you might be content with a mono version since that was all you knew anyway (and it was cheaper to boot).

As somebody who wasn't born yet and never cared about hits, I think I underestimate the power of radio back then.  I can see your point if AM was the main way of selling music and that way was done in mono.

[Rich Finegan]

The tune "Crimson and Clover" by Tommy James and the Shondells with the wonderful guitar interlude immersed in the song.

One thing I sometimes have wondered about the song "Crimson and Clover", and even over the many years hearing the song, have never heard explained:
What exactly did the title mean? Maybe nothing, just words that were thought to have sounded good together? (I hope it's not something "dirty"!)

I even met Tommy James once and didn't think to ask him.

I'm glad to see Stooged and Confused posting comments in this thread. I know he knows his stuff on this topic. Maybe he knows the answer?

[shemps#1]

I believe I remember an interview with James on the Howard Stern Show in which he said that it comes from his favorite color (crimson) and his favorite flower (clover). He thought of the title before composing the song.

[garystooge]

God! Cream , like the Hendricks Experience were so overated to me. Too much fucking drums and too much screaming to compensate for the lack of instruments in the band.

If you think these trios sounded "thin', then you're really not going to like this....a duo! No compensation showing here. This is absolutely the first rock group to go unplugged, maybe 20 years before others started doing it. They're a definite "no-hit wonder" and yet both members are in the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame and still touring. Whoever posted the youtube video dated it 1970, but I'm fairly certain this is from a PBS guitar show that aired in late 1969 and thus qualifies for the 60's music thread. And thanks Shemps for the youtube posting instructions!

[youtube=425,350]mjfhsLuOEWI[/youtube]

[Dog Hambone]

For me, this was the first heavy metal band  (BOID-please do not watch....it's a trio with lots of drums and screaming and some flying hair to boot)

Wow, Gary, thanks for posting the Blue Cheer video. I loved those guys back in the day, &  I had forgotten all about them. After I listened to yours, I listened to some more on YouTube. Unlike some music from that era, this stuff holds up amazingly well.   

[Dog Hambone]

Here's one from the 1960s that I'm sure ToidBrain will like because it seems to meet most of his criteria.

[youtube=425,350]qhYLz63csS0[/youtube]

[metaldams]

I'll have to watch those youtube clips tonight, guys, can't watch 'em at work.  I kind of want to get back to this thread anyway, this music's much better than Katy Perry.

When this thread runs it's course, we can do a 70's thread too.  I'm sure there'll be some controversey there, with punk and disco and what not, but lots of good stuff came from that decade.  We'll save the 70's for another thread, though.

Speaking of mono mixes, I've certainly hinted to family that Dylan mono box would make a wonderful Xmas/birthday gift; so I'm hoping to get it soon and I'll let you guys know what I think.  The thing is, half of those albums I don't even own in stereo, and I'm looking forward to hearing the JOHN WESLEY HARDING album especially.

[Rich Finegan]

Here's one from the 1960s that I'm sure ToidBrain will like because it seems to meet most of his criteria.

[youtube=425,350]qhYLz63csS0[/youtube]

Strawberry Alarm Clock!
Good stuff!
Too bad they're just faking it to the record in that clip.
I have five LP's and at least 5 singles by them.

Sure, this song may be "dated" but what a perfect example of this summer 1967 sound (actually very late summer, but close enough!)
This was their only big hit. Next was "Tomorrow" in early 1968, and later, in summer 1968 came "Barefoot in Baltimore". Those did okay, but were not huge Top Ten hits. Then no more big hits for them, although they put out a few more singles.
Later they covered "Good Morning Starshine" from the musical "Hair" but theirs was not the biggest hit version.
And much later, one of their members joined Lynyrd Skynyrd for a couple of years.

[metaldams]

And much later, one of their members joined Lynyrd Skynyrd for a couple of years.

Yeah, Ed King.  I'd say leaving that band in 1975 was a good life decision.  He's one of the few guys from the 70's still living.  Even a lot of the guys who have survived the plane crash have since passed on.

[stooged and confused]

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/3D4YYI8G5EM?fs=1&amp;amp;hl=en_US" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/3D4YYI8G5EM?fs=1&amp;amp;hl=en_US</a>
Strawberry Alarm Clock's only big hit was "Incense and Peppermints", and while catchy, it's nothing more than bubblegum psychedelic pop. Check out "Pictures of Matchstick Men" by The Status Quo!

[stooged and confused]

Speaking of mono mixes, I've certainly hinted to family that Dylan mono box would make a wonderful Xmas/birthday gift; so I'm hoping to get it soon and I'll let you guys know what I think.  The thing is, half of those albums I don't even own in stereo, and I'm looking forward to hearing the JOHN WESLEY HARDING album especially.

When a song is intentionally recorded in mono and remixed for stereo, you do miss sounds that get lost in the stereo version. Most of Dylan's material sounds far better in mono and I prefer SGT. PEPPER in mono vs. stereo.

[stooged and confused]

So many hits of the 50s and up to the mid 60s that were remixed for stereo (fake stereo), such as Elvis tracks, suffer with too much echo from the duophonic separation and everything sounds muddy as a result. So much instrumentation and vocal integrity get lost. Another album best heard in mono over stereo is The Beach Boys' PET SOUNDS. It's a totally different album in stereo and not for the better. Brian made that album in mono to reflect the Phil Spector "wall of sound" style and you lose all of that in the stereo version.

[metaldams]

So many hits of the 50s and up to the mid 60s that were remixed for stereo (fake stereo), such as Elvis tracks, suffer from too much echo from the duophonic separation  andeverything sounds muddy as a result. So much instrumentation vocal integrity get lost. Another album best heard in mono over stereo is The Beach Boys' PET SOUNDS. It's a totally different album in stereo and not for the better. Brian made that album in mono to reflect the Phil Spector "wall of sound" style and you lose all of that in the stereo version.

I've only heard PET SOUNDS in mono, never stereo, so I guess I'm lucky.  I have the old CD version that I bought in the mid-90's, and it's definitely mono.  Actually, I believe all the Beach Boy albums I have up to WILD HONEY are mono.  They sound great and PET SOUNDS is definitely a favorite of mine.

[stooged and confused]

I've only heard PET SOUNDS in mono, never stereo, so I guess I'm lucky.  I have the old CD version that I bought in the mid-90's, and it's definitely mono.  Actually, I believe all the Beach Boy albums I have up to WILD HONEY are mono.  They sound great and PET SOUNDS is definitely a favorite of mine.

Another example is The Beach Boys  "California Girls" and "Good Vibrations" singles. They were originally released as mono tracks and you can easily hear the lush production, whereas in the stereo versions it just gets lost, sadly!

[metaldams]

Another example is The Beach Boys  "California Girls" and "Good Vibrations" singles. They were originally released as mono tracks and you can easily hear the lush production, whereas in the stereo versions it just gets lost, sadly!

I know a big complaint about the Deluxe Edition of the first Who album is that only a stereo mix is involved and some parts of the songs are missing in the stereo mix.  Apparantly some parts were recorded as overdubs and never made it to the stereo mix, for whatever reason.  On a deluxe edition, there's no excuse for not including both a mono and stereo.

Now for the first two Who albums, I'm only familiar with stereo, so I'd certainly jump at the mono releases if released on CD.  I'd really love to hear monos of the '66 - '68 Rolling Stones albums as well, though some of those stereo mixes don't sound that bad.  I'm kind of a different, but BETWEEN THE BUTTONS is my favorite Stones album.

[stooged and confused]

I know a big complaint about the Deluxe Edition of the first Who album is that only a stereo mix is involved and some parts of the songs are missing in the stereo mix.  Apparantly some parts were recorded as overdubs and never made it to the stereo mix, for whatever reason.  On a deluxe edition, there's no excuse for not including both a mono and stereo.

Now for the first two Who albums, I'm only familiar with stereo, so I'd certainly jump at the mono releases if released on CD.  I'd really love to hear monos of the '66 - '68 Rolling Stones albums as well, though some of those stereo mixes don't sound that bad.  I'm kind of a different, but BETWEEN THE BUTTONS is my favorite Stones album.

There is NO EXCUSE for both versions not to be included in a "deluxe" set, I agree! Again, I prefer the mono mixes of The Who and The Rolling Stones. A track like "Happy Jack" sounds great in mono, sort of like a musical hurricane, but in stereo, feh! Even pop-rock fare like The Four Seasons "Let's Hang On" is far superior in its original mono form than in stereo. Plus they cut out the entire Frankie Valli inrto on the stereo mix and that's bullshit! The same goes for all of the Motown hits up to the mid 60s.