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If Larry Fine was born in Philadelphia . . .

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Dr. Hugo Gansamacher:
If Larry Fine was born in Philadelphia (as Louis Feinberg), then why has he got a New York accent? In fact, he has a stronger New York accent than the Brooklyn-bred Howard brothers. I looked through some biographical materials on line and found nothing to indicate that Larry ever moved to New York City in his boyhood. In fact, this page specifically mentions his playing the violin in a concert in Philadelphia when he was ten.

The accent that we hear from Larry in the shorts sounds nothing like any samples that I have observed of Philadelphia speech or anything that I have learned of it from reading. For instance, the Wikipedia article "Philadelphia Dialect" flatly asserts that Philadelphia accents are rhotic, i.e., that the consonant /r/ is always pronounced after vowels (with the exception of the second "r" in the street name "Girard")---in contrast to New York accents, in which post-vocalic /r/ is often deleted. Larry is quite conspicuously an "r"-dropper---even moreso than Moe, Curly, and Shemp, I think. His vowels likewise are pure working-class New York and, so far as I can tell, show none of the traits of Philadelphian accents (like "vurry" for "very"). Yet Larry's accent seems perfectly natural and consistent, as if it were the one with which he had grown up.

It is possible that Larry, at some point in his early adulthood, moved to New York and acquired a local working-class accent. But if so, the transformation is pretty remarkable. People who try to acquire a new accent in their native language in adulthood are rarely entirely successful: they tend to end up with an inconsistent accent, with traces of the old one frequently showing through. I see no such traces in Larry's speech.

Anyway, if anyone knows any biographical specifics that would resolve this puzzle, I would like to hear them.

stooge1029:
He was raised in a Jewish home Id say its more of a yiddish accent. Jews and Italians combined to make the New York (city) accent, so it makes sense. He was probably raised in a Jewish neighborhood and went to Hebrew schools so I cant imagine him talking like your average Philly resident today.

Dr. Hugo Gansamacher:

--- Quote from: stooge1029 on December 15, 2010, 12:51:17 PM ---He was raised in a Jewish home Id say its more of a yiddish accent. Jews and Italians combined to make the New York (city) accent, so it makes sense. He was probably raised in a Jewish neighborhood and went to Hebrew schools so I cant imagine him talking like your average Philly resident today.

--- End quote ---

It's not a Yiddish accent. The Yiddish influence in New York speech is more a matter of idiom and inflection than of accent. We (Americans who grew up in non-Yiddish-speaking homes) tend to conflate the two accents because when we hear Yiddish, it is usually spoken by someone with a New York accent. But the Yiddish of the Old Country has very little in common with New York pronunciation. (The accents of New York city were already distinctive before the big influx of Jewish and Italian immigrants in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.)

On the other hand, perhaps Larry's parents grew up in New York? That could have been an influence.

garystooge:
IMHO, Larry has no good reason to sound like a typical New Yawkah.....and doesn't sound like one at all.
Gary

Dr. Hugo Gansamacher:

--- Quote from: garystooge on December 15, 2010, 02:04:15 PM ---IMHO, Larry has no good reason to sound like a typical New Yawkah.....and doesn't sound like one at all.
Gary

--- End quote ---

I don't know about "typical": I think that only a minority of New Yorkers of today have a strong local accent. So a "typical New Yorker" of today probably sounds nothing like the Howard brothers, say. (For comparison, I live in Boston, and I would guess that no more than one person in five that I hear has an identifiable "Boston accent.") Do you mean that Larry's accent does not sound like any New York accent at all? That is possible: I have never lived in New York and my ears may not be sharp enough to detect the difference. But his accent sounds even less like any Philadelphia accent that I know of. Have you lived in either city?

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