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Best comedy team ever?

Boid Brain · 127 · 23033

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Offline metaldams


I wouldn't say the Martin & Lewis films are unwatchable. There are plenty of laughs in many of them, especially the earlier ones like 'The Caddy', 'That's My Boy', 'Sailor Beware', 'Scared Stiff' among others. To really enjoy Martin & Lewis just watch their live TV appearances on the Colgate Comedy Hour, especially when Dean has a chance to shine. Just because you don't like Jerry is not a reason to shortchange Dean.

I admit "Sailor Beware" was somewhat tolerable because of a few good sight gags.  "The Caddy" opens with a great chase scene and is was absolutely awful after that.  When I mentioned pathos and Jerry Lewis earlier, this is the movie I was referring too.

Jerry Lewis would've been fine as a gag writer, I won't take that away from him, but as a comic character, he's too hard to stomach.

As for Dean, I actually think his music career has overshadowed anything he's done with Jerry Lewis.
- Doug Sarnecky


Offline Boid Brain

Jerry Lewis is complete fucking waste. His on screen persona makes me want to scrape out my ear drums with a rusty fork. He has never been funny in his entire life and outside of movies is a useless asshole who is completely out of touch with reality.

Fuck Jerry Lewis.
Hmmm...you seem as passionate about Jerry as I am about Shoeless Joe. You say he is a complete fucking waste. That's an astounding proclamation! "Complete waste" implies that he was also a bad writer, a bad director, a bad casting director, a bad dancer, a bad film editor and God knows what else the guy did bad!

I don't like Bing Crosby. I think he was human garbage. But he was a good singer, a good actor and a fair dancer....see what I'm sayin'?


Offline OldFred

You've got to give Jerry at least some credit as a director for the innovation of inventing the video playback which is still used in film making today.


Offline metaldams

You've got to give Jerry at least some credit as a director for the innovation of inventing the video playback which is still used in film making today.

Yeah, on the technical side of things, he's fine.  I just don't care for his character.
- Doug Sarnecky


Offline shemps#1

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Nope, I don't give Jerry Lewis credit for anything. I don't like him and I never will. I believe he is completely void of talent. See what I'm saying?
"Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day; teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime; give a man religion and he will die praying for a fish." - Unknown


Offline shemps#1

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Dean Martin, though a bit narcissistic (as the members of the Rat Pack tended to be) was a funny guy. Notice in my previous posts all of my venom has been directed at Jerry and not Dean. The best thing he ever did was split from Lewis. I absolutely love the Dean Martin Roasts.
"Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day; teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime; give a man religion and he will die praying for a fish." - Unknown


Offline Boid Brain

I liked Dean too. I thought his role of "Dude" was terrific. I've seen that movie about 20 times I think. Also, his show on NBC was very good. I was a little kid but I got all the double entendras. I stopped watching when it became a Roast show. (No, I don't know how to spell entendra's)


Offline stooge1029


I don't like Bing Crosby. I think he was human garbage. But he was a good singer, a good actor and a fair dancer....see what I'm sayin'?

I know one of his kids said he was an abusive father but do we really know he was a piece of human garbage? I know one of his sons stuck up for him dening the claims that he was abusive. I dunno it seems like this guy has a bad rep and it might be a little unfair.

 


Offline Boid Brain

I know one of his kids said he was an abusive father but do we really know he was a piece of human garbage? I know one of his sons stuck up for him dening the claims that he was abusive. I dunno it seems like this guy has a bad rep and it might be a little unfair.

 
Gary Crosby, the most successful of the 4 boys alluded to his Father being an asshole on national TV in the 50's. He wrote the book in the 80's. He holds Bing responsible for his little brother comitting suicide, and another brother attempting it.



Offline middlenamewayne

We got Laurel and Hardy, the Marx Bros, the Stooges, the Ritz Bros, Abbott and Costello and Dean and Jerry in that order.

Who was the best?

Can we narrow this down to comedy TRIOS? Then you've just got to contend with the Stooges, the Marxes, and Kukla Fran & Ollie.

 (I'm not counting that one period where Oliver Hardy gained so much weight that the studio was considering the idea of billing him and Stan Laurel as a trio!)

  -- mnw

BTW: Do any of you remember a 1980s Sat AM kid show called "The Amazing Live Sea Monkeys"? The comedy team that played the title characters were called the Chiodo brothers, and their act was excruciatingly close to what the Stooges would've been like if all three were Joe DeRita!!!


Offline Boid Brain

Can we narrow this down to comedy TRIOS? Then you've just got to contend with the Stooges, the Marxes, and Kukla Fran & Ollie.

 (I'm not counting that one period where Oliver Hardy gained so much weight that the studio was considering the idea of billing him and Stan Laurel as a trio!)

  -- mnw

BTW: Do any of you remember a 1980s Sat AM kid show called "The Amazing Live Sea Monkeys"? The comedy team that played the title characters were called the Chiodo brothers, and their act was excruciatingly close to what the Stooges would've been like if all three were Joe DeRita!!!
LOL...thankfully, no!


Offline OldFred

Can we narrow this down to comedy TRIOS? Then you've just got to contend with the Stooges, the Marxes, and Kukla Fran & Ollie.


The problem with that is that there weren't that many classic comedy teams that were trios. The Marx Brothers, the Stooges and the Ritz Brothers were pretty much it for trios. Every other comedy team were duos, so you have to count them since there were more of them.


Offline OldFred

A funny bit between Dean Martin and Bob Newhart from Dean's show. Listen to what Bob says at about the 4:07 minute mark of the sketch and to Dean's reply.

[youtube=425,350]din5JORDXzk[/youtube]


Offline middlenamewayne

The Marx Brothers, the Stooges and the Ritz Brothers were pretty much it for trios. Every other comedy team were duos, so you have to count them since there were more of them.

Yeah, and people don't necessary think of the Marxes as a trio (plus people never think about the Ritzes at all) and I tend to think that's a major element of what made the Stooges so special. It's simply a long-proven fact that almost noone can pull off comedy as a trio act!

  - mnw


Offline metaldams

I'm actually a bit shocked, and saddened, that not a single person called me out on naming Laurel and Hardy the greatest comedy team.  I know we have some intelligent people here, and we are on a Three Stooges board, so I'd like to think somebody can think up of a good response.

Now I know why Jim isn't doing the Master Debates.
- Doug Sarnecky


Offline Boid Brain

I'm actually a bit shocked, and saddened, that not a single person called me out on naming Laurel and Hardy the greatest comedy team.  I know we have some intelligent people here, and we are on a Three Stooges board, so I'd like to think somebody can think up of a good response.

Now I know why Jim isn't doing the Master Debates.
I remember thinking: this poor guy. I didn't call you out but I did state that they were boring. (by comparison, of course)


Offline Boid Brain

A funny bit between Dean Martin and Bob Newhart from Dean's show. Listen to what Bob says at about the 4:07 minute mark of the sketch and to Dean's reply.


Pretty good there by Bob....I remember that particular show, and that line.


Offline metaldams

I remember thinking: this poor guy. I didn't call you out but I did state that they were boring. (by comparison, of course)

I enjoy both The Three Stooges and Laurel and Hardy, I don't feel any poorer for it.
- Doug Sarnecky


Offline Boid Brain

I enjoy both The Three Stooges and Laurel and Hardy, I don't feel any poorer for it.
L&h don't hold a candle to the Stooges...c'mon!


Offline Seamus

I'm actually a bit shocked, and saddened, that not a single person called me out on naming Laurel and Hardy the greatest comedy team.  I know we have some intelligent people here, and we are on a Three Stooges board, so I'd like to think somebody can think up of a good response.

Well, you were so obviously tanked when you made that pronouncement (all those mile-long ellipses were a dead giveaway), we figured if we let it pass for a day you'd sober up and get your head straight on this issue.

Actually you make a pretty good case for L&H, objectively.  I haven't seen enough of their stuff to make a fair comparison (WAY OUT WEST, SONS OF THE DESERT, MUSIC BOX, and a handful of their silents), but you're right about all the qualifications they've got that their competitors don't.  BUT, one important checklist item you left off was posthumous reputation.  Although all the teams we're talking about here are still enjoyed by people today to some degree or another, I think the Stooges are enjoyed the most by the general public today, on their own merits, as opposed to being watched primarily by fans of old cinema like some of the other teams.  Even people who aren't aficionados of classic comedy enjoy the Stooges, seventy years after their heyday.  That probably has a lot to do with their relatively "low" brand of comedy, but it still counts for a lot.  L&H are iconic today, no doubt, but their shorts are only watched by enthusiasts today, for the most part. 

I've got mixed feelings about L&H myself.  Oliver Hardy can be hysterical (love the scene in WAY OUT WEST where he's making an awkward pass at the woman in the stagecoach - "Do you believe in Santy Claus?  HAHAHAHA!").  But Stan Laurel's simpering simpleton character is just not funny.  Credit to him for being the brains behind their material, but I just don't find him very fun to watch.  That said, I'll be giving them a proper inspection here soon once I've bumped their DVDs up in my Netflix queue.

My instinct is to go with the Marx Brothers as best comedy team.  Between Groucho and Harpo (with Chico as the middle man for them both to spark off of), their act was a beautiful blend of intelligent, surreal verbal humor and physical comedy.  Pretty much the full spectrum.  And although their movies/plays were mostly written for them, they contributed a lot of their own ideas and personalities to the act (Harpo came up with a lot of his own physical gags, and Groucho's natural wit always through in his performance).  Subjectively, I enjoy the Stooges as much as the Marxes, but can't deny that the Brothers were probably a "greater" team.  I'd probably rank Monty Python higher than the Stooges too, for some of the same reasons (range of comedy styles, the fact that they wrote all their own stuff, just plain funny, etc.). 




Offline metaldams

L&h don't hold a candle to the Stooges...c'mon!

That was well thought out.  ::)

Give me some valid reasons why Laurel and Hardy don't hold a candle to The Three Stooges, and by valid, I don't mean, "'cause they're boring."  If boring is the reason, why are Laurel and Hardy boring?
- Doug Sarnecky


Offline metaldams

Well, you were so obviously tanked when you made that pronouncement (all those mile-long ellipses were a dead giveaway), we figured if we let it pass for a day you'd sober up and get your head straight on this issue.

Actually you make a pretty good case for L&H, objectively.  I haven't seen enough of their stuff to make a fair comparison (WAY OUT WEST, SONS OF THE DESERT, MUSIC BOX, and a handful of their silents), but you're right about all the qualifications they've got that their competitors don't.  BUT, one important checklist item you left off was posthumous reputation.  Although all the teams we're talking about here are still enjoyed by people today to some degree or another, I think the Stooges are enjoyed the most by the general public today, on their own merits, as opposed to being watched primarily by fans of old cinema like some of the other teams.  Even people who aren't aficionados of classic comedy enjoy the Stooges, seventy years after their heyday.  That probably has a lot to do with their relatively "low" brand of comedy, but it still counts for a lot.  L&H are iconic today, no doubt, but their shorts are only watched by enthusiasts today, for the most part. 

I've got mixed feelings about L&H myself.  Oliver Hardy can be hysterical (love the scene in WAY OUT WEST where he's making an awkward pass at the woman in the stagecoach - "Do you believe in Santy Claus?  HAHAHAHA!").  But Stan Laurel's simpering simpleton character is just not funny.  Credit to him for being the brains behind their material, but I just don't find him very fun to watch.  That said, I'll be giving them a proper inspection here soon once I've bumped their DVDs up in my Netflix queue.

My instinct is to go with the Marx Brothers as best comedy team.  Between Groucho and Harpo (with Chico as the middle man for them both to spark off of), their act was a beautiful blend of intelligent, surreal verbal humor and physical comedy.  Pretty much the full spectrum.  And although their movies/plays were mostly written for them, they contributed a lot of their own ideas and personalities to the act (Harpo came up with a lot of his own physical gags, and Groucho's natural wit always through in his performance).  Subjectively, I enjoy the Stooges as much as the Marxes, but can't deny that the Brothers were probably a "greater" team.  I'd probably rank Monty Python higher than the Stooges too, for some of the same reasons (range of comedy styles, the fact that they wrote all their own stuff, just plain funny, etc.). 




First off, thank you for the response.

As far as posthumous reputation goes, The Three Stooges are more known and enjoyed - in America.  Go to Europe, you can buy a 21 DVD complete Laurel and Hardy box set from Universal and buy Stooge DVD's on import.  I think this all has to do with exposure.  In America, Laurel and Hardy films are owned by Hallmark, and let's just say restorations and distribution aren't where they should be.  In America, The Three Stooges have been shown on television for 50 years, and part of the reason is because having 190 shorts, there's plenty to show without repeating yourself.  Laurel and Hardy have this strange mix of silent shorts, sound shorts, and features, and frankly, it's only sound shorts that are going to get Saturday morning exposure.  Laurel and Hardy only made 40.  Today, American Laurel and Hardy fans are thankful for TCM, but it was only fairly recently TCM has shown the Hal Roach catalog.

The Marx Brothers are great, but their great body of work lasts about 6 or 7 films, tops.  The other half of their films, while they have their moments for fans, are not as good.  They simply don't have the long body of work as Laurel and Hardy and The Three Stooges.

Monty Python: I really need to see more of The Flying Circus stuff to have a better opinion.  I've seen the three features (HOLY GRAIL several times) and enjoy them all.  Still, my gut tells me the meat of their work is The Flying Circus stuff, and I've only seen a little of it.  If I can find a way to get the Flying Circus stuff without giving up a big chunk of my paycheck, I'll certainly check it out.  As of now, I really enjoy Monty Python, but I have to admit, because they switch characters so damn much, I still don't know which actor is which.  I'm sure this can easily be remidied with internet research, but with The Three Stooges, Marx Brothers, or Laurel and Hardy, it's very obvious who's who.

- Doug Sarnecky


Offline Seamus

As far as posthumous reputation goes, The Three Stooges are more known and enjoyed - in America.  Go to Europe, you can buy a 21 DVD complete Laurel and Hardy box set from Universal and buy Stooge DVD's on import.  I think this all has to do with exposure.  In America, Laurel and Hardy films are owned by Hallmark, and let's just say restorations and distribution aren't where they should be.  In America, The Three Stooges have been shown on television for 50 years, and part of the reason is because having 190 shorts, there's plenty to show without repeating yourself.  Laurel and Hardy have this strange mix of silent shorts, sound shorts, and features, and frankly, it's only sound shorts that are going to get Saturday morning exposure.  Laurel and Hardy only made 40.  Today, American Laurel and Hardy fans are thankful for TCM, but it was only fairly recently TCM has shown the Hal Roach catalog.

Yeah, I was actually going to mention the spotty distribution of L&H material on DVD here in the States.  I was jealous of the Europeans when I found out they could get a complete set of L&H in PAL format over there.  And there's a British "geek" message board I browse a fair bit that's always going on about L&H (they've never once mentioned the Stooges), so they do seem to enjoy a better reputation overseas. 


The Marx Brothers are great, but their great body of work lasts about 6 or 7 films, tops.  The other half of their films, while they have their moments for fans, are not as good.  They simply don't have the long body of work as Laurel and Hardy and The Three Stooges.

Well, 6-7 great films is pretty damn good, really, and if we're considering career length as a criteria I don't think we should disqualify the Marx's years of stage work prior to 1929 (even though we can't fairly judge them by what doesn't exist).  Sure, the Stooges left behind a larger body of work, but I think even the folks on this board can admit that most of their 190 shorts followed a very consistent formula, so I'm not sure how much weight I'd give to that.


Monty Python: I really need to see more of The Flying Circus stuff to have a better opinion.  I've seen the three features (HOLY GRAIL several times) and enjoy them all.  Still, my gut tells me the meat of their work is The Flying Circus stuff, and I've only seen a little of it.  If I can find a way to get the Flying Circus stuff without giving up a big chunk of my paycheck, I'll certainly check it out.  As of now, I really enjoy Monty Python, but I have to admit, because they switch characters so damn much, I still don't know which actor is which.  I'm sure this can easily be remidied with internet research, but with The Three Stooges, Marx Brothers, or Laurel and Hardy, it's very obvious who's who.

$36 new from Amazon sellers, baybee!  You're right, with six guys on the team morphing into different characters all the time, it's a little confusing for people who haven't obsessively watched them and read most of what's been written about them <sheepishly raises a nerdy hand>.  But it's pretty fun dissecting the team and learning the different personalities involved, both in the performing and the writing.  Cleese and Chapman, who wrote together most of the time, tended to produce carefully written sketches that had logical underpinnings, but taken to extremes.  Palin and Jones, who also wrote together, wrote a lot of the team's looser and sillier stuff, just taking a weird conceit and running with it.  Eric Idle wrote funny verbal pieces (you'll notice a lot of sketches where it's simply him talking at camera), and Gilliam's stuff needs no explanation.  Highly recommended whenever you can bring yourself to part with the dough (or get a Netflix account), but be prepared for some tedious sketches mixed in with the good (although the good stuff definitely makes it worth plowing through the series).



Offline stooge1029

I actually did mentione Laurel and Hardy. Look I know Laurel and Hardy movies are boring sometimes but their shorts are equal to or in some cases done even better the stooges. I know America doesnt have the 21 disk set so I say to all of you who can do this...download them. I found ever single sound short online. Then watch all the sound shorts and forget the bad movies they did like Bonnie Scotland, you ll have a new opinion on Laurel and Hardy.


Offline metaldams

I actually did mentione Laurel and Hardy. Look I know Laurel and Hardy movies are boring sometimes but their shorts are equal to or in some cases done even better the stooges. I know America doesnt have the 21 disk set so I say to all of you who can do this...download them. I found ever single sound short online. Then watch all the sound shorts and forget the bad movies they did like Bonnie Scotland, you ll have a new opinion on Laurel and Hardy.

Laurel and Hardy do have a few features that get bogged down in romantic subplots and what not, but they have more features that are enjoyable and totally rely on Laurel and Hardy.  I've seen just about every Laurel and Hardy film but I don't have them memorized like I do Stooge shorts (this is on purpose, I wish I didn't rush into The Three Stooges so much).  That said, isn't BONNIE SCOTLAND the one where they are frying fish on a bed?  I also remember there was a bad romantic subplot in that one, but even the weaker Roach Laurel and Hardy's have their moments.

I like Laurel and Hardy and The Three Stooges about the same, but when objectively looking at the two, Laurel and Hardy came first, Laurel and Hardy excelled at more styles of films, and The Three Stooges actually took some plots and gags from Laurel and Hardy (look at Brent's articles in the last Three Stooges Journal and the next one coming up).  I gotta give the nod to Laurel and Hardy as the greatest.

If you guys aren't responding simply because you're not familiar with much Laurel and Hardy...


Sound shorts:  THE MUSIC BOX, HELPMATES, TIT FOR TAT, THEM THAR HILLS, BUSY BODIES, HOG WILD
Features: SONS OF THE DESERT, BLOCKHEADS, WAY OUT WEST
Silent shorts: BIG BUSINESS, TWO TARS, LIBERTY, THE FINISHING TOUCH
- Doug Sarnecky