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Stooge Sound Design

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Offline Giff me dat fill-em!

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This question might be more appropriately aimed at Pilsner Panther, seeing that he may be the "Sound" wizard of this site ...

I'm watching a dvd from Goodtimes Video titled "The Three Stooges Story" and the 1982 interview with Ed Bernds is flowing by. He's extolling the virtues of "the unsung hero of the Stooges", namely Joe Henrie. Joe was responsible for all the sound effects for the hits, bonks, wallops, car chases, trap doors, thuds, etc. While Ed was talking about these things, the camera was scrolling past a series of "tapes" with the afore mentioned titles on them. However, they were TOO small to be considered "reel-to-reel" tapes, yet slightly too large to be considered CD's. IF they were reel-to-reel recordings, they are of a size I am NOT familiar with, at least in the commercial since, since the reel-to-reel recorder I remember from my childhood was of the size of a 10-minute 8-mm movie size type reel, and was therefore TOO fat to fit into the narrow racks I viewed on this dvd. If anyone can illucidate as to the type of recordings used for movie sound effects in the early 1930's .... thanks.
The tacks won't come out! Well, they went in ... maybe they're income tacks.


Pilsner Panther

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This question might be more appropriately aimed at Pilsner Panther, seeing that he may be the "Sound" wizard of this site ...

I'm watching a dvd from Goodtimes Video titled "The Three Stooges Story" and the 1982 interview with Ed Bernds is flowing by. He's extolling the virtues of "the unsung hero of the Stooges", namely Joe Henrie. Joe was responsible for all the sound effects for the hits, bonks, wallops, car chases, trap doors, thuds, etc. While Ed was talking about these things, the camera was scrolling past a series of "tapes" with the afore mentioned titles on them. However, they were TOO small to be considered "reel-to-reel" tapes, yet slightly too large to be considered CD's. IF they were reel-to-reel recordings, they are of a size I am NOT familiar with, at least in the commercial since, since the reel-to-reel recorder I remember from my childhood was of the size of a 10-minute 8-mm movie size type reel, and was therefore TOO fat to fit into the narrow racks I viewed on this dvd. If anyone can illucidate as to the type of recordings used for movie sound effects in the early 1930's .... thanks.

I haven't seen this particular interview, Giff, but I'll take a wild guess and say that those "tapes" were probably 35mm sound reels. In the days before magnetic tape (pre-1945 or so), sound effects were recorded on optical film because of its permanence and superior sound quality. It was also easy to "loop" the film to provide repeated effects. Some of Curly's woo-woos were given this treatment: check the scene in "Uncivil Warriors" when the Stooges first enter, running out of the woods— you can clearly hear the looping.

In the early LP era of the 50's, some record companies made recordings (especially classical ones) on 35mm sound film because it provided much more frequency range than the available magnetic tape machines of the time. Mercury Records even featured this technique in their advertising, billing it as "The highest possible fidelity."

In addition to Joe Henrie, another brilliant sound effects man of that period was Treg Brown of Warner Brothers cartoons, who also had hundreds (if not thousands) of effects in his library of 35mm sound reels... everything from the often-heard falling anvil (zoooom-splat!) to the Road Runner's "beep beep." Strangely enough, Brown was usually billed in the credits (when he got billing at all) as "Film Editor" rather than "Sound Editor." Why, I don't know.

 ???


Offline FineBari3

This question might be more appropriately aimed at Pilsner Panther, seeing that he may be the "Sound" wizard of this site ...

I'm watching a dvd from Goodtimes Video titled "The Three Stooges Story" and the 1982 interview with Ed Bernds is flowing by. He's extolling the virtues of "the unsung hero of the Stooges", namely Joe Henrie. Joe was responsible for all the sound effects for the hits, bonks, wallops, car chases, trap doors, thuds, etc. While Ed was talking about these things, the camera was scrolling past a series of "tapes" with the afore mentioned titles on them. However, they were TOO small to be considered "reel-to-reel" tapes, yet slightly too large to be considered CD's. IF they were reel-to-reel recordings, they are of a size I am NOT familiar with, at least in the commercial since, since the reel-to-reel recorder I remember from my childhood was of the size of a 10-minute 8-mm movie size type reel, and was therefore TOO fat to fit into the narrow racks I viewed on this dvd. If anyone can illucidate as to the type of recordings used for movie sound effects in the early 1930's .... thanks.

I haven't seen this particular interview, Giff, but I'll take a wild guess and say that those "tapes" were probably 35mm sound reels. In the days before magnetic tape (pre-1945 or so), sound effects were recorded on optical film because of its permanence and superior sound quality. It was also easy to "loop" the film to provide repeated effects. Some of Curly's woo-woos were given this treatment: check the scene in "Uncivil Warriors" when the Stooges first enter, running out of the woods— you can clearly hear the looping.

In the early LP era of the 50's, some record companies made recordings (especially classical ones) on 35mm sound film because it provided much more frequency range than the available magnetic tape machines of the time. Mercury Records even featured this technique in their advertising, billing it as "The highest possible fidelity."

In addition to Joe Henrie, another brilliant sound effects man of that period was Treg Brown of Warner Brothers cartoons, who also had hundreds (if not thousands) of effects in his library of 35mm sound reels... everything from the often-heard falling anvil (zoooom-splat!) to the Road Runner's "beep beep." Strangely enough, Brown was usually billed in the credits (when he got billing at all) as "Film Editor" rather than "Sound Editor." Why, I don't know ???

Great post, Pils!!! That is something I have often wondered about (the looping) of Curly's sounds. I wondered how that was done before tape was used.  I have seen the interview in question, and I thought they were like Edison cylinders.  Ahh.....another mystery sol-ved! (my best Clousseau)
Mar-Jean Zamperini
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Pilsner Panther

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Great post, Pils!!! That is something I have often wondered about (the looping) of Curly's sounds. I wondered how that was done before tape was used.  I have seen the interview in question, and I thought they were like Edison cylinders.  Ahh.....another mystery sol-ved! (my best Clousseau)

Thank you, M.J.! It's easy to spot the looping of Curly's woo-woos, because each group of them in a given scene sounds exactly the same (a hilarious effect, and I wonder who came up with the idea in the first place?). Another example is in "False Alarms," where the birthday cake falls out the window and Curly races down the stairs trying to save it, woo-wooing all the way.

Considering that sound film had only been in general use since 1929 (inventor Lee De Forest had come up with a workable movie sound system in the early 20's, but it didn't catch on), Columbia's and Hal Roach's technicians in partucular were quick to understand the creative possibilities of sound effects; the early Laurel & Hardy sound shorts had some very funny sound effects in them, too.

"The Jazz Singer" with Al Jolson (1927) is usually cited as the first sound film, but it's mostly silent except when Jolie sings, courtesy of the extremely primitive Vitaphone system... and as much as I like his singing, whether he was any kind of a "jazz" singer is debatable, at best!

The original Vitaphone sound projection setup looked like something designed by Rube Goldberg; I've seen a photo of it, but I don't have one to post here. The system used large phonograph records, which were synchronized— via a gear train— to the projector. Sound engineers weren't able to get more playful with sounds until the optical soundtrack, imprinted on the film itself, was invented in the early 30's. At that point, sound became much easier to handle, even though it still was all cut-and-paste work with glue, razor blades, and a splicing block.

 :o

As an aside, I was racking my brain all day today trying to remember the name of that Mercury Records 35mm LP series, until it finally came to me: it was called "Living Presence." The records featured such prominent classical musicians of the time as conductors Antal Dorati and Frederick Fennell, and organist Marcel Dupre. The microphones and the recording equipment were so sensitive that on a Dupre recording session made at St. Thomas's Church on Fifth Avenue in New York, Dupre had to stop playing every ten minutes or so because the sound of the subway trains running under the street outside was showing up as rumble on the masters!

I got most of the above information from my late Uncle Johnny, who was an audio engineer for the old Bell Laboratories in Holmdel, N.J. (now known as Lucent Technologies). He worked on some of the early communications satellites like Echo and Telstar. Tip 'o the hat, there...

 ;D

« Last Edit: March 31, 2005, 03:32:42 AM by Pilsner Panther »


Offline FineBari3

About Jolson.....yeah, you were wondeing if he was a 'jazz singer' or not. Hell, I'm wodering if he was a 'man' or not! Do you see him swivelin' his hips like that!!!!

Yeah, the Mercury Living Presence sereis!  Back when I worked at the used record store (Jerry's), I worked with the jazz, country, and classical. We had a little room that had all of the classical goodies in it, like the Living Presence series, London Phase 4, RCA Shaded Dogs.....I probably havent thought of those in years!  Pretty neat with your uncle, too!

I have a friend who's uncle was Werner Von Braun
« Last Edit: March 31, 2005, 08:29:01 PM by Dunrobin »
Mar-Jean Zamperini
"Moe is their leader." -Homer Simpson


Pilsner Panther

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About Jolson.....yeah, you were wondering if he was a 'jazz singer' or not. Hell, I'm wondering if he was a 'man' or not! Do you see him swivelin' his hips like that!!!!


Well, there were some pretty effeminate male singers around in the 20's (like Nick Lucas, who was a role model for Tiny Tim), but Jolson wasn't one of them. He was married to Ruby Keeler, a popular movie star in the early talking picture era. Besides, wouldn't the hip-swiveling thing make him a forerunner of Elvis?

His singing style came out of the Yiddish theater and vaudeville traditions, and really had nothing to do with jazz. He made a few records that might be called "jazz-flavored," mainly because of the musical accompaniment, but he was really a sentimental, hammy "belter."

Quote

Yeah, the Mercury Living Presence sereis!  Back when I worked at the used record store (Jerry's), I worked with the jazz, country, and classical. We had a little room that had all of the classical goodies in it, like the Living Presence series, London Phase 4, RCA Shaded Dogs.....I probably havent thought of those in years!  Pretty neat with your uncle, too!

I have a friend who's uncle was Werner Von Braun


"I make rockets go up
Who cares where they come down?
That's not my department,"
Says Werner Von Braun."

—Tom Lehrer, 1960's

 :D

Whoops, what did I do there? Sorry, Mar-Jean, it looks like I mangled your post rather than putting up a new reply with quotes in it, which is what I wanted to do. I don't know how to get it back, maybe Rob can restore it.

I'm having one of my fumble-fingered days, all right...

 :(
« Last Edit: April 01, 2005, 02:39:08 AM by Pilsner Panther »


Offline Dunrobin

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You must have clicked on the "Modify" button instead of the "Quote" button, Pils. [blockhead]

I put MJ's post back to as close as I could.  If there was anything more, MJ, I'm afraid you'll have to add it back in yourself.


My paternal grandfather was Vice President of a firm called "Modern Bell Talking Motion Pictures," in New York City, back in the 40's and 50's.  He died before I was two, so I don't remember him, but my grandmother once told me that he turned down a job offer from Walt Disney because he felt Disney was a lousy businessman and a bad risk.  (Bad call there, Gramps!)

Werner Von Braun was one of my boyhood heros.  I was one of those geeky kids who had models of all of the Mercury, Gemini and Apollo spacecraft, and I followed every launch faithfully.  Did you ever get a chance to meet him?


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You must have clicked on the "Modify" button instead of the "Quote" button, Pils. [blockhead]

I put MJ's post back to as close as I could.  If there was anything more, MJ, I'm afraid you'll have to add it back in yourself.


Thanks, Rob. That probably had something to do with the fact that I was using a crapped-out rent-a-computer with an out-of-focus screen. Now I'm back at work where I have a nice new flat-screen monitor, so I can actually see what I'm typing without squinting at it!

The bad news on that front is that there's been a delay in my PC upgrade, and it's going to be in the shop for another week at least. The usual thing: "We're waiting for some parts to come in." So, no April Fool's Pilsner's Picks, and that's not an April Fool!

« Last Edit: April 01, 2005, 02:44:00 AM by Pilsner Panther »


Offline FineBari3

You must have clicked on the "Modify" button instead of the "Quote" button, Pils. [blockhead]

I put MJ's post back to as close as I could.  If there was anything more, MJ, I'm afraid you'll have to add it back in yourself.




Werner Von Braun was one of my boyhood heros.  I was one of those geeky kids who had models of all of the Mercury, Gemini and Apollo spacecraft, and I followed every launch faithfully.  Did you ever get a chance to meet him?

No, I did not. My friend is around 52.....I ain't that old!!!!!
Mar-Jean Zamperini
"Moe is their leader." -Homer Simpson