Topic: Joe Could Take It!

[OldFred]

Well, I think we can safely say that the Three Stooges Vol. 8 collection proves that despite the misleading legend, Joe Besser did take his share of bops and slaps in the later Three Stooges shorts. The collection also shows that some of the Besser/Stooges shorts weren't as bad as some fans once thought. 

[Curly4444]

I never though joe was bad, he just was no shemp or curly.

[Stooge-Adam]

I actually think Joe was good. It was the material he and the other Stooges were given in the 1957-59 shorts that's the problem. Some lousy shorts, but Joe did a good job.

[Curly4444]

True, maybe with earlier material he would have rocked?

[OldFred]

Of course, but really, who would have done better under the circumstances?

Yeah, I notice how much abuse he takes in "A Merry Mix Up" alone -- only his 3rd short. The one thing you never see, though, is him getting hit with a solid prop.

Actually, in this clip from 'Flying Saucer Daffy' you do. It starts around the 15 second mark to about 60 seconds.

[youtube=425,350]ZhWcdt-E38Y[/youtube]

&feature=PlayList&p=B82E0033903213C8&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=43

And here's a nice interview clip of Joe Besser talking positively about working with the Stooges.
[youtube=425,350]KQvDBdUtx-E[/youtube]

[archiezappa]

It has been a while since I've seen most of these shorts with Joe Besser.  I was pleasantly surprised to see him taking the slapstick.  I wonder which Stooge took more slapstick:  Joe Besser or Curly-Joe DeRita?  Hmm.  That would be an interesting study.

[metaldams]

It has been a while since I've seen most of these shorts with Joe Besser.  I was pleasantly surprised to see him taking the slapstick.  I wonder which Stooge took more slapstick:  Joe Besser or Curly-Joe DeRita?  Hmm.  That would be an interesting study.

Derita took more slapstick by far.  Derita did all the physical things a third stooge was supposed to do and could take a good pratfall for a man his size.  The problem is he added nothing new to the table.

[Bud_Jamison]

I really love the new volume 8.  It finally presents the Besser work to be evaluated fairly.  These shorts and Besser's performance are like a good single malt scotch.  Absolutely fantastic if you "get it" and are a fan who appreciates the boys full body of work AND can appreciate the circumstances and economic realities that the act was facing.  To compare these later shorts against Curly classics of the 30's is silly.  If there was no Besser and DeRita, there would be NO Stooge material from this era & that would really be something to dislike!

[benjilbum]

Joe did get whacked on a number of occasions. Even shot with fire once. It wasn't really his fault, but he was miscast as the 3rd Stooge. They all did their best with what the had. I still think that after Shemp passed, Dudley Dickerson would have been a better replacement. Now he was funny!!!

[Bud_Jamison]

Dudley Dickerson as the third Stooge would have been the greatest thing ever.  I can't even take the thought of it without laughing.
 

[Blystone]

I agree that Dudley would have been a great choice— but realistically, in the 1950's an integrated film comedy team was unthinkable. Too bad, but that's what American society was like back then. I suspect that in some parts of the country, it still is.



When it comes to actual possibilities, I'll go with Emil Sitka as the best candidate for the third Third Stooge. Also, an out-of-left-field suggestion, Doodles Weaver:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doodles_Weaver

His work on records with Spike Jones and the City Slickers is still hilarious today, and he'd been featured in a number of comedy films. He also had his own low-budget series of shorts on early television ("A Day With Doodles"). One of those nearly forgotten comics who shouldn't have been forgotten.

[Desmond Of The Outer Sanctorum]

Oh yeah, forgot about the Joe abuse in FLYING SAUCER DAFFY. Shame they had to pull the plug on the Stooges just as Joe was fitting in better that way.

The pic of that Doodles guy reminds me a little of Shemp.

"Every eye is glued onto that car. It looks very funny with all those eyes glued on it." 

[benjilbum]

Yes, I considered the race factor with Dudley being a Stooge, and your point is well taken and probably (sadly) true. However, consider that Our Gang/Little Rascals always had an African-American kid on the team (Stymie/Farina/Buckwheat) and there were no problems there. That was also a couple decades before the late 50's. Plus the East Side Kids had a black kid in the group too for a number of years. So it at least was conceivable that Dudley could have replaced Shemp. But anyway it's intresting to think of the possibilities. It also shows that race relations have come a long way in just a few short decades. Thanks for the input.
Anna-canna-pana-san.

[Rich Finegan]

An out-of-left-field suggestion, Doodles Weaver:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doodles_Weaver

His work on records with Spike Jones and the City Slickers is still hilarious today, and he'd been featured in a number of comedy films. He also had his own low-budget series of shorts on early television ("A Day With Doodles"). One of those nearly forgotten comics who shouldn't have been forgotten.

I LOVE the "A Day With Doodles" (1964) shorts!! Some of the funniest stuff I've ever seen! But I guess one needs a certain quirky sense of humor. Some of my friends just don't get Doodles. Then again, some love his stuff as I do.
Although I've always been a Doodles Weaver fan, I had actually never heard of the "A Day With Doodles" shorts (never saw them on TV as a kid, and there really hasn't been much info out there on them) until 1993 when a good friend (thanks Brian!!) made me a video tape of several he had transferred from film prints. He thought I'd like them, and he sure was right!!

Sure the humor is simple and obvious.
Sure the sound effects are overdone.
Sure Doodles mugs outrageously.
Sure it looks as if they filmed these in ten minutes for ten bucks (or less!).
Sure the color is all faded.
Sure it's obvious that Doodles plays all the characters (and the editing is so sloppy that they don't seem to care that it's obvious).
Sure the music is simple and cheesy (but delightfully catchy in its own way).
Sure the narration is unnecessary (but what a kid-friendly touch addressing Doodles as "we". A great way to involve the viewer...hey it works for me!)

If one can accept and enjoy all these factors and understand that they are all essential parts of the charm of these films, then you'll love them too!

Only two seem to be on YouTube right now.:

Unfortunately, the sound is a second or two out of synch on this one:

&feature=related

And be sure to stay through the ending credits!
Enjoy (if possible!)

[hiramhorwitz]

I LOVE the "A Day With Doodles" (1964) shorts!! Some of the funniest stuff I've ever seen! But I guess one needs a certain quirky sense of humor. Some of my friends just don't get Doodles. Then again, some love his stuff as I do.
Although I've always been a Doodles Weaver fan, I had actually never heard of the "A Day With Doodles" shorts (never saw them on TV as a kid, and there really hasn't been much info out there on them) until 1993 when a good friend (thanks Brian!!) made me a video tape of several he had transferred from film prints. He thought I'd like them, and he sure was right!!

I remember watching these on Sally Starr's Popeye Theatre (along with the Stooges) and thinking they were the best thing since Cliff Norton's Funny Manns series.  The worst part about 'em is getting the themesong stuck in your head.  Just watched one this morning on YouTube (the first I'd watched in 45 years) and am now struggling to quit humming the tune.  Great, simple, bargain basement, silly stuff!!     

[Blystone]

"Great, simple, bargain basement, silly stuff!!"

And they make even the later Columbia Stooges shorts look like "Ben Hur," budget-wise. My personal theory is that there's no direct connection between money and laughs. Of course, money helps...

Send me some and I'll prove it to you.

[bindu]

The legend of Joe refusing to be hit by Moe is proven false by the actual films; he took plenty of slaps, bops, and pokes.  Sure, it never reached the violence levels of the most intense Shemp episodes, but then again, we should take into consideration that Moe & Larry were starting to slow down as well.  Moe was 60 by the end of the Besser series.  Had they tried to continue their trademark exaggerated slapstick, we might have been seeing more of their "stand-ins" than of "the boys" themselves. 

Having said all that... yeah, there are several times when the Besser man-child persona grates, but the moment usually passes quickly as they (typically) rush on to the next crazy gag.

And thanks for the posting of that Joe interview.  I had never seen the Fun-O-Rama trailer.  Cool! 

[BeAStooge]

The legend of Joe refusing to be hit by Moe is proven false by the actual films; he took plenty of slaps, bops, and pokes. 

Exactly.

Joe's agreement (his so-called "contract" provision was a verbal agreement) was that he had veto on anything he felt was risky, and could request a stand-in; he discusses this in his autobiography. The blowtorch bit in MUSCLE UP A LITTLE CLOSER, one of his earliest Stooge shorts, demonstrates that Joe was quickly comfortable with sight-gags on the Stooge productions. White didn't use stand-ins for him, any more than he did for Moe or Larry.

Moe's focus on "punishing" Larry, more than Joe, in the 1957 shorts probably had more to do with a comfort level between the two long-time partners. By the 1958 shorts, the "punishment" was equally distributed.

And, Besser had already worked with White (and Bernds) for several years prior on his solo shorts; those films are also loaded with plenty of physical shtick. The Columbia/White style was not new to Besser when he joined the Stooges.

And thanks for the posting of that Joe interview.  I had never seen the Fun-O-Rama trailer.

Available on DVD... Legend's "Extreme Rarities" (the source of the youtube video).

[Hammond Eggar]

I really love the new volume 8.  It finally presents the Besser work to be evaluated fairly.  These shorts and Besser's performance are like a good single malt scotch.  Absolutely fantastic if you "get it" and are a fan who appreciates the boys full body of work AND can appreciate the circumstances and economic realities that the act was facing.  To compare these later shorts against Curly classics of the 30's is silly.  If there was no Besser and DeRita, there would be NO Stooge material from this era & that would really be something to dislike!

You are so right, Bud.  So right.

[7stooges]

Personally, I don't think either Joe Besser or Joe DeRita deserves the harsh criticisim they've received in the past. They were both funny in there own ways. And they must have been funny because if they weren't, Moe and Larry wouldn't have hired them in the first place.

As for the whole integrated comedy team thing, Dickerson would have certainly been an excellent Stooge; however, Dickerson taking physical abuse from Moe might not have been looked upon favorably by certain people.
I do remember hearing one story that Moe was considering hiring Mantan Moreland as a replacement for Shemp (or it might have been Joe Besser), but I'm not entirely sure about that.

[Desmond Of The Outer Sanctorum]

yeah, there are several times when the Besser man-child persona grates, but the moment usually passes quickly as they (typically) rush on to the next crazy gag.

And is it just me, or wasn't Curly's character really sort of a man-child (in a different way)?

Personally, I don't think either Joe Besser or Joe DeRita deserves the harsh criticism they've received in the past. They were both funny in there own ways. And they must have been funny because if they weren't, Moe and Larry wouldn't have hired them in the first place.

Good point. I'll always be harder on DeRita, though, because he clearly wasn't trying as hard as Besser & didn't have Besser's respect for the Stooges' legacy. Of course, to be fair, the DeRita era suffers from comprising a few more-or-less lame feature films instead of shorts.