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2010 Baseball - For Those Of Us Who Care

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Offline shemps#1

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They (NYY) will probably get Lee, but is it wise to give him a seven year deal? He's coming towards the age where he has nowhere to go but down (unless he is on the Juice like Clemens was) turning 33 in august and by the time the seven year contract is up he will be 40. Of course they have the money to blow but still...
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Offline Justin T

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They (NYY) will probably get Lee, but is it wise to give him a seven year deal? He's coming towards the age where he has nowhere to go but down (unless he is on the Juice like Clemens was) turning 33 in august and by the time the seven year contract is up he will be 40. Of course they have the money to blow but still...

I'm wondering the same thing, I would have prefered a 6 year deal but it may take 7 in order to get him to come to NY.

Kudos to the Red Sox for getting Gonzales and Crawford, but for those Boston fans who like to rant about how the Yankees "buy championships"  it would be wise for them to think twice about using that line again after the money
Crawford and Gonzales are going to get.

Still, Red Sox are going to be a force next season as long as they stay healthy.

The only drawback to what the Sox have done, and if the Yanks get Cliff Lee....it's good for baseball in the short term but
not the long term. Certain teams have the big money to spend while others have to use other ways to build a good baseball team.
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Offline shemps#1

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I'm wondering the same thing, I would have prefered a 6 year deal but it may take 7 in order to get him to come to NY.

Kudos to the Red Sox for getting Gonzales and Crawford, but for those Boston fans who like to rant about how the Yankees "buy championships"  it would be wise for them to think twice about using that line again after the money
Crawford and Gonzales are going to get.

Still, Red Sox are going to be a force next season as long as they stay healthy.

The only drawback to what the Sox have done, and if the Yanks get Cliff Lee....it's good for baseball in the short term but
not the long term. Certain teams have the big money to spend while others have to use other ways to build a good baseball team.

No offense at all intended because I like ya Justin, but there is quite a bit of horseshit in that post. The whole "Evil Empire" thing was nothing more than a joke, I can't speak for others but I don't have a problem with either team spending money. The fact is these are the top two revenue producing teams in baseball: they put the most asses in seats (Fenway might be small BUT look at the road attendance spikes when the Red Sox are in Baltimore, Tampa, Toronto etc) and get the highest ratings on television. These people that whine and bitch about the "Evil Empires" didn't bother to watch this past World Series, in which neither team was featured. So not only do they have the money to invest in the team but they also donate to these other teams via the bullshit revenue sharing. Meanwhile there are plenty of teams that make no effort at all to even keep their good players and put out a compelling product. For instance the Pittsburgh Pirates turn a decent profit despite the fact that they haven't watchable since a pre-roid Bonds and when Tim Wakefield was a young man.

Didn't the Marlins catch some shit from MLB for having a payroll that was too low?
"Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day; teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime; give a man religion and he will die praying for a fish." - Unknown


Offline Justin T

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No offense at all intended because I like ya Justin, but there is quite a bit of horseshit in that post. The whole "Evil Empire" thing was nothing more than a joke, I can't speak for others but I don't have a problem with either team spending money. The fact is these are the top two revenue producing teams in baseball: they put the most asses in seats (Fenway might be small BUT look at the road attendance spikes when the Red Sox are in Baltimore, Tampa, Toronto etc) and get the highest ratings on television. These people that whine and bitch about the "Evil Empires" didn't bother to watch this past World Series, in which neither team was featured. So not only do they have the money to invest in the team but they also donate to these other teams via the bullshit revenue sharing. Meanwhile there are plenty of teams that make no effort at all to even keep their good players and put out a compelling product. For instance the Pittsburgh Pirates turn a decent profit despite the fact that they haven't watchable since a pre-roid Bonds and when Tim Wakefield was a young man.

Didn't the Marlins catch some shit from MLB for having a payroll that was too low?

No offense taken, I just wanted to play a little Devil's Advocate and bring up the position of people on the internet, radio and TV who bitch and moan all the time about how The Yankees, Red Sox and other teams dominate baseball in money, attendence and the TV Ratings. I've run into some Red Sox fans now and then here in NY and they always complained about how the Yankees spend money to get players. Well, if other teams had the kind of rabid fanbases the Yankees, Red Sox, Phillies do they would have the money to be able to lure big time free agents to their teams.

Personally, I dont care how much money my Yankees, The Red Sox or any other team spends. Baseball is about winning the World Series and if your team doesn't do everything it can to achieve that goal then they why do they bother existing at all.
A small part of me feels bad for fans of other teams who just can't compete right now, but in the end this is the way things are for now and I don't see them changing anytime soon.

Steinbrenner was no angel, but at least he did everything he could to make the Yankees a winner. That's the kind of owner you want running your team.

And yes, the Revenue sharing system in place right now is BS. Teams like the Pirates just take the money and either sit on it, or waste it on other things instead of building the team.

I really am sick and tired of the sports writers/comentators on ESPN and the radio who complain about the East Coast dominace in baseball and wish for the kind of parity that the NFL has.

The problem is that Football as a sport is loved across the country, that's why the NFL is the #1 sport in the US. It's why the Super Bowl brings monster ratings every year no matter who is playing in the game. Most NFL teams have devoted, rabid fanbases and the way the NFL runs their ship the parity that exists works and you have alot of teams who are competitive and make the sport exciting to watch and follow.

Baseball appears to be more of a regional sport, It's popularity is greater in some areas more than others. We have talked about the Rays and their attendence before. They are the perfect example, the team has been good and competitive for the last 3 years and their attendence is still below average. Baseball is not as popular in Florida as Football is, so despite the fact they had a playoff team who has gone to the World Series lately still no one gave a crap down in Tampa.

So yes Shemps, you are right on in alot of what you said. I just wish more baseball fans were as honest.
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Offline falsealarms

I'm not big on giving any pitcher a 7 year deal, but especially one that's 32 years old. Lee's been brilliant for 3 years, but he didn't reach this level until he was 30 years old. Guys who peak later like this tend to flame out faster and he had some minor back trouble this summer. And he's not one of those guys you can ride 3x in a 7 game series. Don't get me wrong, he's had three consecutive elite seasons, but I wouldn't make the kind of investment someone is about to.


Offline shemps#1

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The Philadelphia Phillies have seemingly swooped in like a bunch of ninjas and acquired the services of Cliff Lee right out from under the Yankees and Rangers noses. Halladay, Lee, Oswalt and Hamels give the Phillies the best rotation in MLB bar none. Apparently the contract is for five years $100 million with a vesting option for a sixth. The Yankees and Rangers were both apparently offering more years and money. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5917145

This will probably leave both the Yankees and Rangers to persue Zack Greinke, but consensus says neither team has enough of the kind of prospects that the Kansas City Royals are looking for (middle infielders or outfielders that are almost ML ready). It is expected that NYY will try to convience the decrepit Andy Pettite to return for another season.
"Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day; teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime; give a man religion and he will die praying for a fish." - Unknown


Offline shemps#1

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As an aside, I find it very surprising that the Yankees have come up empty this offseason. They'll be just fine without Lee and in my opinion will battle the Red Sox for the AL East while the other teams gets the Wild Card but there starting rotation leaves a lot to be desired in regards to postseason play.

Oh, and HAHAHAHAHA!
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Offline Boid Brain

I like the odds of the Yanks landing Pujols and making him the richest man in baseball as the Cards can't afford to pay him the 200 mil he wants. So long Albert, you fat cocksucker! Go DH in that...'other league' >:(


Offline shemps#1

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Where the fuck did that come from?
"Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day; teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime; give a man religion and he will die praying for a fish." - Unknown


Offline Boid Brain

Where the fuck did that come from?
I'm a Card fan but not a Pujols fan. He's a 3rd world asshole...a greedy bling wearing, loaf to 1st base, show up his teamates, no clutch hitting, old fat, lying, point to Gawd after a hit prima donna. Fuck him. Let him take his act to NY where he will be booed unmercifully by those unforgiving minions!


Offline garystooge

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OMG, what a beautiful day here in Philadelphia.....Jayson who?


Offline stooge1029

I dont understand that logic. Passed up a 7 year 150 million for 5 yrs 100 million. Cliff Lee must HATE New York. I hate the Yankees too, but for that kind of money....


Offline Justin T

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As an aside, I find it very surprising that the Yankees have come up empty this offseason. They'll be just fine without Lee and in my opinion will battle the Red Sox for the AL East while the other teams gets the Wild Card but there starting rotation leaves a lot to be desired in regards to postseason play.

Oh, and HAHAHAHAHA!

I agree with all of this, excpet for the Ha Ha Ha of course  ;D

Am I dissapointed we didn't get Lee? Yeah, but I'ts not the end of the world. We still have a good team, just need to
sort out our rotation issues. If we can get Kerry Wood to come back that would help keep the bullpen strong.

And kudos for Lee for going to a team he wants to play with for less money, sometimes it's not always about the money.

Phillies must have decided to try and get Lee back to help get them back to the World Series after the Giants took them
out in the NLCS. It's funny, during the playoffs alot of people said the Phillies were going to go to the World Series because
how could they lose with Halladay, Oswalt and Hammels pitching. Well the Giants outplayed and outpitched the Phillies to win
in 6 games. Will it happen again? Who knows, that's why you play the game. Right now the Phillies are going to be the favorites to win the NL over the defending champion Giants.

With all of their losses, Tampa is still a decent team but are most likely going to finish in 3rd at best. Like Shemps said, it's looking to be Yankees vs Red Sox, winner gets the division and the loser most likely gets the wild card (never a guarentee but odds are in their favor)
"Moronica must expand! We must lend our neighbors a helping hand. We must lend them two helping hands, and help ourselves to our neighbors!"
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Moe: Brilliant, what’ll it be?
Larry: Open The Door!
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Offline metaldams

Life must be good for a Phillies fan when Cole Hamels is your number four starter.  Sheesh!  The Yanks now probably need to trade for Greinke, but I'm not sure that's happening. 

I don't think Cliff Lee ever had any plans of being a Yankee.  Supposedly, some of the classier New York Yankee fans were less than kind to his wife during the 2008 World Series, and if that's the case, it came back to bite them.

- Doug Sarnecky


Offline shemps#1

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Well it looks like the initial reports were wrong (I literally posted that as soon as it popped up on ESPN.com). It's 5 years $120 million, with a vesting option for a sixth year at $27.5 million. The option vests if he pitches 200 innings or more in 2015 or a total of 400 innings or more in 2014-15, so if he vests it will be 6yrs at $147.5 million, which is more than what the Yankees were supposedly offering and for less years.

He apparently loved Philadelphia and will have a chance to win a few championships with that rotation. The only real downside to that is while that starting rotation is as awesome as I have ever seen right now it's a bit long in the tooth which may come back to bite the Phillies in the second half of the Lee contract.  They have to be considered the definite front-runners for the NL Pennant in 2011 and many prognosticators are predicting a Red Sox/Phillies WS. We still have a season to play, however.
"Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day; teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime; give a man religion and he will die praying for a fish." - Unknown


Offline metaldams

They have to be considered the definite front-runners for the NL Pennant in 2011 and many prognosticators are predicting a Red Sox/Phillies WS. We still have a season to play, however.

The Red Sox have this little thing called a bullpen they need to be build and they need better years from Lackey and especially Beckett.  Then we'll see what happens.  If things don't improve, it'll be the 2005 team all over again.
- Doug Sarnecky


Offline shemps#1

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Even if Beckett and Lackey have "so-so" years the Red Sox have the best rotation in the AL. If those two have great years we blow everyone else away. On top of that the lineup is light years better than it was in 2010 and we have two guys who can steal 50+ bases AND a superior defense. Crawford goes from having a "pretty good" arm to having a rocket in Fenway's short left field. That Red Sox lineup will be able to beat you in a myriad of ways. Even with the bullpen issues (which I hope will be addressed) the Red Sox have to be considered the front runners in the AL.

The Giants can say they bested Lee in the WS and beat the other Phillies in the NLCS, but having to deal with those four pitchers in a seven game series all at once will be a daunting task.
"Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day; teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime; give a man religion and he will die praying for a fish." - Unknown


Offline shemps#1

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In regards to Boston's bullpen Theo is supposedly going after the likes of Kevin Gregg and Matt Guerrier...at least he isn't resting on his laurels!
"Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day; teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime; give a man religion and he will die praying for a fish." - Unknown


Offline metaldams

The line-up is better for the long haul with Gonzalez and Crawford, but compared to last year, they are replacing Beltre and Martinez, who were both great.  I think we'll benefit more short term with a healthy Ellsbury, Pedroia, and Youkilis as opposed to the new signings.  Even the way the line-up was last year, we scored the second most runs in the league.

Short of Lester, Buchholz and Bard, pitching was the problem last year.  I'm fine with keeping the rotation intact because Beckett and Lackey are both long term and have a chance of rebounding (and frankly, last years Lackey is not so bad as a number four), but I am really looking forward to seeing how the bullpen is addressed.  Let's hope Theo bags some of those names you mentioned, because we need them.  I was a bit disappointed Scott Downs went to the Angels.
- Doug Sarnecky


Offline shemps#1

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There is a very interesting article on SI.com about the Lee fallout and how it's not just Phillies fans but fans everywhere except Texas and NY who are cheering Lee's decision. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/tom_verducci/12/14/cliff.lee.fallout/index.html?xid=cnnbin&hpt=Sbin
"Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day; teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime; give a man religion and he will die praying for a fish." - Unknown


Offline Lefty

When the Phillies face the Red Sox (June 28, 29, 30), if Lee or Hamels matches up with Lester, expect a double no-hitter, with both teams loaded with left-handed hitters. 

And to the Yankees' "fan(s)" who spat on Mrs. Lee in this year's ALCS, to paraphrase Senor Peedro Alvarez, "Thank you too many!"


Offline shemps#1

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From the " Ha-Ha-Ha-Fucking-Ha" Dept: here is a vomitous NYY homer article on ESPN NY wherein the columnist writes Lee an open letter telling him he should choose the Skanks over the Rangers. I wonder if Mr. Parker likes whipped cream with his humble pie?

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/columns/story?columnist=parker_rob&id=5909378

"Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day; teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime; give a man religion and he will die praying for a fish." - Unknown


Offline metaldams

When the Phillies face the Red Sox (June 28, 29, 30), if Lee or Hamels matches up with Lester, expect a double no-hitter, with both teams loaded with left-handed hitters. 


I know Jon Lester in 2 starts is 1 - 0 and has given up 1 run in 14 innings against the Phillies.  I attended the one win in 2008 (though my favorite Lester stat is his 13 - 0 record against Baltimore).

Cole Hamels is also the only Phillies pitcher who has the Red Sox number the past few years, so it probably would be a double no-hitter.
- Doug Sarnecky


Offline metaldams

The Red Sox need a big relief arm, and who do they sign?  Matt Albers, Boston's favorite clay pigeon from Baltimore.  This better be one of those "depth - low risk/high reward" moves and not the main piece of the puzzle.  Blimey.
- Doug Sarnecky


Offline Justin T

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Well, The Yankees signed Russell Martin to a one year deal. This is a nice low risk move
since Posada can't be the full time catcher anymore, and it's obvious they are not sold
on Cervilli either. If he doesn't do well, its one year, if he does well then it was a bargin
deal.

On another note, I have a baseball book I'm almost finished reading to recomend

The First Fall Classic: The Red Sox, the Giants, and the Cast of Players, Pugs, and Politicos Who
Reinvented the World Series in 1912


http://www.amazon.com/First-Fall-Classic-Politicos-Reinvented/dp/0767929683/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1292447007&sr=1-1

I picked this up at Barnes and Noble several weeks ago and It's been a fantastic read. I may not be
a fan of either team but I really enjoyed reading the drama that was involved in this Series, two great
teams loaded with great players and Future Hall of Famers. The series had to be settled in 8 games instead
of 7 because one game ended in a tie and both teams ended up tied at 3-3. I really enjoyed seeing what
the game was like back then, and now rabid and fanatical the fanbases for the Sox and Giants were at the
time, espeically the Royal Rooters for the Red Sox. They remind me of the Yankees Bleacher Creatures of today. Plus it was neat seeing how the Giants where New York's #1 team at the time, since the Yankees didn't
become relevant till the 1920's when we got Babe Ruth.

The author did alot of research to find what people said (specially the managers and players) before, during and
after each game. I could really picture the games being played out in my head while I was reading it.

The book also talks a bit about the events going on outside the Series, such as the 3 Way Presidential Election between Wilson, Roosevelt and Taft and a infamous police corruption trial going on in NYC.

For the Red Sox fans here, you guys would love this book. Giants fans should as well, depite the fact who won.
"Moronica must expand! We must lend our neighbors a helping hand. We must lend them two helping hands, and help ourselves to our neighbors!"
Moe in "You Natzi Spy!"

Larry: Say, when I come back I’ll give you a password.
Moe: Brilliant, what’ll it be?
Larry: Open The Door!
"Studio Stoops"