Topic: Why You NAUGHTY Boy!

[Pilsner Panther]

Hmm... for whatever it's worth, you can censure yourself on this board. There doesn't seem to be much point to it, though, unless you're a masochist.

 

Kind of reminiscent of the opening scene in Laurel & Hardy's "Helpmates," where Babe Hardy appears to be giving someone a stern lecture about his behavior, but it turns out that he's talking to himself in a mirror!

[shemps#1]

You know, I can picture you bent over hitting yourself with paddle while saying "Pils has been a bad boy". I really don't want that thought in my head, so thanks for nothing!

[Pilsner Panther]

You know, I can picture you bent over hitting yourself with paddle while saying "Pils has been a bad boy". I really don't want that thought in my head, so thanks for nothing!

You're welcome— and I really should un-warn myself, because there are enough people around here who really deserve it!

We'll start with the lousy typists and spellers...

...but we may never finish!


 

[Dunrobin]

You know, I can picture you bent over hitting yourself with paddle while saying "Pils has been a bad boy". I really don't want that thought in my head, so thanks for nothing!

My god  - me too!  I can see you doing the "You've been a naughty boy, Pilsner!" routine, a la John Cleese in Fawlty Towers.
 

[Pilsner Panther]

You know, I can picture you bent over hitting yourself with paddle while saying "Pils has been a bad boy". I really don't want that thought in my head, so thanks for nothing!

My god  - me too!  I can see you doing the "You've been a naughty boy, Pilsner!" routine, a la John Cleese in Fawlty Towers.
 

Well, just don't send any Germans to my hotel, or I'm going to start goose-stepping just like Basil Fawlty!



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[Bruckman]

"This is not funny! Not to us, not to any Germans!"

"You know, you people really do have no sense of humor, do you?"

[Pilsner Panther]

"This is not funny! Not to us, not to any Germans!"

"You know, you people really do have no sense of humor, do you?"

What, you mean you don't want your free Hitler stamps?

 

They're just the thing to put on your tax return when you mail it to the IRS.

A fat lot of gratitude I get around here...!

Just don't mention Hitler or World War II in front of the guests.

[Bruckman]

All right, how many stamps can I get with 15 pfennigs? I have a 1943 5 pfennig piece w/a swastika (badly corroded, made of cheap metal) and a 194? 10 pfennig piece (also w/a swastika, also somewhat corroded. Then again it amazes me the Nazis had any metal with which to stamp out coins at all by 42 or 43).

After all these remarks about Fawlty Towers I'm getting a very lucid picture of what Pilsner was like in his hotel-manager era.

"Let's see, that's a prawn Goebbels, a Hermann Goering, and........oh, I mentioned the war a couple times but I don't think anyone noticed it."

[Pilsner Panther]

All right, how many stamps can I get with 15 pfennigs? I have a 1943 5 pfennig piece w/a swastika (badly corroded, made of cheap metal) and a 194? 10 pfennig piece (also w/a swastika, also somewhat corroded. Then again it amazes me the Nazis had any metal with which to stamp out coins at all by 42 or 43).

After all these remarks about Fawlty Towers I'm getting a very lucid picture of what Pilsner was like in his hotel-manager era.

What do you mean, Bruck, "my hotel-manager era?" I'm still in it!

Not to mention lousy teeth, a crapped-out computer system at work, unrequited love, and even the goddamned coffee machine doesn't work.

The next thing that's coming is a pie square in the face, and—

Who threw those pies?



"Let's see, that's a prawn Goebbels, a Hermann Goering, and........oh, I mentioned the war a couple times but I don't think anyone noticed it."

Mr. Hilter (NOT a typo) says that he loves your sense of humor. Not to mention Ron Vibbentrop.



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[Bruckman]

What do you mean, Bruck, "my hotel-manager era?" I'm still in it!

Not to mention lousy teeth, a crapped-out computer system at work, unrequited love, and even the goddamned coffee machine doesn't work.

Sounds not unlike one of my former places of employment (from which I was relieved by a change of owner last spring).

Ah, the VW. One of Hitler's continuing legacies. That, and the one-class inclusive cruise ship, a fact I'm inordinately fond of quoting.

So remember, a Carnival Cruise is inspired by Nazis!

"Oh, you're the Germans! ha ha ha, fancy that, I thought there was something wrong with you!"

[Pilsner Panther]

What do you mean, Bruck, "my hotel-manager era?" I'm still in it!

Not to mention lousy teeth, a crapped-out computer system at work, unrequited love, and even the goddamned coffee machine doesn't work.

Sounds not unlike one of my former places of employment (from which I was relieved by a change of owner last spring).

Ah, the VW. One of Hitler's continuing legacies. That, and the one-class inclusive cruise ship, a fact I'm inordinately fond of quoting.

So remember, a Carnival Cruise is inspired by Nazis!

"Oh, you're the Germans! ha ha ha, fancy that, I thought there was something wrong with you!"

If we keep this stuff up, this is going to turn into a John Cleese-Python-Fawlty Towers site instead of a Stooges site!

I've never taken a Carnival Cruise, but I can only imagine... they're probably modeled after the 100,000-ton Mouse (Disneycorp) which is run by Nazis. I've worked for one major "hospitality" outfit that's exactly like they must be. Boot camp at Parris Island is a walk in the park, compared to those lousy rotten bastards, and I won't say who they are for fear of a libel suit— but probably about 3/4 of living Americans and 3/4 of living Europeans have stayed in one of their hotels.

You don't even get the unrequited love, unless you agree to have it deducted from your paycheck— but why bother? Inevitably, you're bound to get some of that anyway, free, gratis, and for nothing. And of course the coffee machine doesn't work, that's standard. Even if it does, your coffee will probably have some green mold floating in it, since no one's cleaned the lousy thing since October 1952, when President Dwight D. Eisenhower inspected it, tried a cup, and promptly did a spit-take.



VW's (the old 60's-70's-80's beetles) really weren't so bad. Once, I drove one all the way from S.F. to Lake Tahoe and back, and it didn't break down even once. But the things did rattle like hell, being made out of the thinnest steel this side of a soup can. There was no point in turning the radio on at 50 or 60 m.p.h., because you couldn't even hear it over the rattling.

The strangest thing about the VW is that it's the only artifact from that ridiculous and thoroughly evil "Thousand-Year Reich" that actually did happen to last for a while.

I'm sure that many of the hippies who drove "bugs" and VW vans back in the 60's and 70's didn't even know what the origins of the Volkswagen were!

But what the hey, they did sip gas, and they got you around... Not bad for a cheapo-deluxe car. Besides, if Ernie Kovacs had bought a cheap beetle instead of a cheap Corvair, he might have lived longer.

 

[Bruckman]

Carnival actually predates the Disney "Big Red Boat" line by a decade or more. Carnival began as a cruise line operating out of Miami in the early 70s using ex-Canadian Pacific liners as cruiseships; the Carnival "halfmoon" logo was deliberatly adapted from the Canadian Pacific livery to avoid having to repaint and redo the ships. Carnival's mandate seems to have been to keep the passengers moving as much as possible to avoid noticing the tackiness of their surroundings. (The big CP liners had impeccable interiors but sadly, much of the rich paneling and overstuffed furniture common to the great transatlantic liners was removed in favor of low-maintenance linoleum and plastic once Carnival took possession). Carnival did manage to change the image of cruises however; up to the 70s, cruises were seen as refuges of elderly retirees and the rich; Carnival's take on "strength through joy" was to aim at the middle class, predominantly singles. This was successful enough to inspire other cruise lines to follow suit. By the mid-80s, Carnival was big enough to special-order its ships and dispose of the older tonnage. From what I recall from my Florida years, it's one of the larger employers in the Miami area.

Hey, film comedy isn't the only history I know; maritime history has also been one of my interests since I was a kid.

I too find it ironic that the Herbie the Love Bug image was attached to a relic of the Nazi era. "What? I'm trying to cheer her up, you stupid Kraut!"

(I'm half German so all these Cleese quotes are fair game in my book).

[Pilsner Panther]

The last time I was on a cruise was with my aunt and uncle when I was seven years old, and the whole thing is kind of a blur in my mind by now. That was the Holland-America Line, the S.S. Amsterdam, sailing out of New York. Actually, at this late date I can't even remember if the ship was called the Amsterdam or the New Amsterdam.

It was pretty luxurious, though; the public areas were decorated in an Art Deco style, like one of those ships you see in a 1930's movie. I remember being amazed that a boat would have elevators on it!

If I took an ocean voyage now, I'd rather go by frieghter, for a more authentic maritime expeirience. There used to be freighters that had some passenger cabins— the old Matson Line here in San Francisco had some, but I don't know if you can still book a passage on a freighter today. These modern cruise ships, whether it's Carnival, Disney, or whatever, seem more like seagoing Las Vegas hotels than ships, and that's not to my taste.

[Bruckman]

That would've been the liner Nieuw Amsterdam, built in 1938 and an Art Deco rival of the legendary Normandie. The Nieuw Amsterdam went to the scrapyards not long after you traveled on her (1974) despite some ideas of the Dutch using her as a floating museum. She was the flagship of Holland America for many years. Used as a troopship during WWII, during which it's said she logged over a million miles. You are fortunate to have sailed on such a historic ship. I'm envious.

I used to have a contemporary brochure for cruises on this ship from 73-74 but it's long gone. Wish I'd saved it. Would be worth money to collectors.

The one thing I do own still is a large full color lithograph of the Cunard line fleet circa 1957. It hung in the Cunard Line offices on Fifth Ave. One of my cousins, knowing I was a liner buff, went down to the offices in 1975 when she heard they were moving and sweet-talked this piece of artwork out of them. It's immense, about 6' x 4', a birds' eye view, very detailed (the Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth are in the foreground, the rest of the ships lines up on the diagonal like a convoy behind them). It's one of only 5 known to exist. A collector offered me a blank check for the thing (until I made its existence known to said collector, only 4 were known to exist). It hangs on my living room wall. I've seriously wondered what its real worth is. Some years ago I put a value of $200 on it for insurance, but that's undoubtedly lowball. It's currently protected by Remington (12 ga.).

[Pilsner Panther]

That would've been the liner Nieuw Amsterdam, built in 1938 and an Art Deco rival of the legendary Normandie. The Nieuw Amsterdam went to the scrapyards not long after you traveled on her (1974) despite some ideas of the Dutch using her as a floating museum. She was the flagship of Holland America for many years. Used as a troopship during WWII, during which it's said she logged over a million miles. You are fortunate to have sailed on such a historic ship. I'm envious.

Thanks for clearing that up, Bruck, but it's a shame that the Nieuw Amsterdam went under the cutting torch eventually... I hate it when artifacts like that aren't preserved, because you know that there'll never be anything like them built again.

Here in S.F., we've been losing our vintage movie theaters one by one, simply because the old single-screens don't rake in the money like the multiplexes do. In one case though, the 1920's Moorish-style Alhambra, the owners were able to preserve the building by leasing it to one of those franchised fitness centers. That saved the exterior, and most of the interior except the seats and the screen. Not a perfect solution, perhaps, but at least it didn't involve the wrecking ball.

I used to have a contemporary brochure for cruises on this ship from 73-74 but it's long gone. Wish I'd saved it. Would be worth money to collectors.

The one thing I do own still is a large full color lithograph of the Cunard line fleet circa 1957. It hung in the Cunard Line offices on Fifth Ave. One of my cousins, knowing I was a liner buff, went down to the offices in 1975 when she heard they were moving and sweet-talked this piece of artwork out of them. It's immense, about 6' x 4', a birds' eye view, very detailed (the Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth are in the foreground, the rest of the ships lines up on the diagonal like a convoy behind them). It's one of only 5 known to exist. A collector offered me a blank check for the thing (until I made its existence known to said collector, only 4 were known to exist). It hangs on my living room wall. I've seriously wondered what its real worth is. Some years ago I put a value of $200 on it for insurance, but that's undoubtedly lowball. It's currently protected by Remington (12 ga.).

I don't blame you for usung that kind of protection, it sounds like a very spectaular piece. It has to be worth more than $200, but I'm no expert on antiques. Have you ever considered having it professionally appraised?

And by the way, how do you get your ocean liner fix in, of all places, Montana!?

[Bruckman]

I've thought about getting a serious appraisal on the thing, but - as you point out - Montana's not exactly full of experts on maritime memorabilia. I should've had it appraised when it still hung in my brother's place in Florida; there's a guy in Sebring or somewhere near there who dealt w/such stuff.

I don't have the money to collect anything so I don't go out of my way to acquire memorabilia of any kind. I used to have a huge collection of liner/cruise ship brochures from the 70s, when some of the big old ships (like your Nieuw Amsterdam) were still around. Almost all these got pitched when my mother sold her house and retired in 87......by me.

Idiot.
Idiot.
Idiot.

At the time I had noplace to store them, they were too heavy to ship economically, and I didn't think they had any real value. One of the biggest mistakes I've made in my life. When I think of the junk I did preserve........excuse me while I go apply a size 11 Wolverine boot to my backside.....

OK, back again. I did save a few things: my collection of books on the subject, the Cunard poster, a similar photo-poster from the United States Lines which I've never had mounted - it's still rolled up in the cardboard tube, marked United States Lines, with their NY address; an oversize brochure from the Italian Line from 1973 which somehow escaped the 87 purge, showing their 3 liners the Michelangelo, Raffaelo, and Leonardo da Vinci (all gone now, the first scrapped, the other 2 burned), several sets of deck plans (2 from the QE2, one pre-82, the other after her post-Falklands refit). Photos taken in NY and Boston. 2 ads taken from old magazines which I mounted and framed myself. And since you're in SF, I have a plate from one of the old Matson liners. My grandfather was a foreman at the Bethlehem Steel shipyard in Quincy Mass., which built the Maripose, Monterey, and Lurline for Matson in the 30s, and I bought this plate to link myself w/these ships' place in my family history.

Preserving a liner is cool, but it's an enormous financial undertaking  - like preserving several city blocks with the additional proviso they're all made of rusting steel. One of the fundraising things still in the works is to preserve the liner United States. Built in 52, she was the fastest liner ever built. Taken out of service in 69, she was sold sometime in the 90s to some Turkish entrepreneur who did nothign but strip every saleable thing out of her, leaving the ship little more than a shell (engines still intact however). She's currently in layup in Philly where she's sat for many years. It would be nice to restore this symbol of American maritime prestige and engineering, but it would be very costly and odds are as she continues to deteriorate she'll end up in some scrapyard eventually. Still that would be kinder than the fate of her running mate, the old liner America, built in 1940, which sat in limbo at Piraeus for over a decade, then while under tow drifted onto one of the Azores and was broken to pieces by waves. Or the Britanis, one of the aforementioned Matson liners (formerly the Lurline) which lasted over 60 years (my grandfather built 'em good, didn't he?) before sinking on its way to the scrapyards in India.

[Pilsner Panther]

The Matson building still exists on lower Market Street near the waterfront, complete with all its terra-cotta ornament of marine motifs (anchors, ropes, etc). Of course, it has different tenants now.

I did some poking around on the web, looking for images of the United States; this is the best set of pics I could find:

http://hometown.aol.com/ssus2/more2.html

She's not in good shape at all (mild understatement), and since these were taken in 1999, the rust on the exterior must be a lot worse by now; you know how fast that salt air gets to steel if it's not kept painted.

Looks like a lost cause to me— only a Bill Gates or a Larry Ellison could afford a restoration job like that, and I doubt that they're interested.

 

Maybe, though, the ship United States is a good metaphor for the country itself, which isn't much better condition...

 

[Bruckman]

I never thought of the SS United States as metaphor for the country, but it fits perfectly. Gutted, unable to move under her own power, tied to a wharf which is off limits, rusting.....

There's a website out there (think it's ss-united-states.com) which has a complete walking tour of the interiors - not that there's much to see: bare steel walls and beams are all that remains of the luxurious appointments and artwork. The engines are in pretty good shape. I imagine getting them in working order would be like restoring a 52 Plymouth which hasn't been turned over in 30 years - just a lot bigger.

Norwegian Cruise Lines currently owns the United States, has some plans of converting her to a cruise ship, price tag: $500 mil. That's about the cost of building a new ship from scratch so it's doubtful NCL will pony up this cash. However, in all fairness, they could've sent her to the scrappers any time over the last 5 years, and so far haven't.

Maybe this too is allegorical of the country's position.

One of the other pieces of liner memorabilia I owned was a model of the United States, a travel agency window display, about 3 feet long, with a light bulb inside which, when you plugged it in, gave the effect of light shining out of portholes. Cool, eh? It wasn't in the best of shape - some of the lifeboats had fallen out of their davits and gotten lost and since it was all plastic the rigging had suffered damage too. I sold this thing when I needed cash in college. Forget what I got for it. Again, there was no way of transporting this thing inexpensively cross country.

Hard to get pics of the United States at her pier since 2001. Anyone w/a camera is suspected of being a potential terrorist. I don't know what would be done to her engines if she were restored. Cruise ships aren't required to turn out 40 knots - the rated speed of the liner (a technological marvel, still unsurpassed). I don't know if there are any true steamships left in service now. They're all turboelectric or diesel electric drive. In terms of fuel economy running the United States w/her current drive would be about like driving a 52 Cadillac - not the cheapest of rides.

I dunno, now I'm inspired to have that big United States Lines poster mounted and hang it in the hallway next to the old travel bureau pic of the liner Begensfjord which I found at an antiques place years ago. The latter's just an oversized photo in a frame, about 4 x 3, probably not too valuable. The US lines piece might be worth coin though. Heck, even the cardboard tube and mailing sticker (featuring the company logo and a ship) might be collectible.

In case anyone's wondering what else is in my place, no, I don't own any Three Stooges memorabilia. Always thought it would be cool to own a prop used in one of their films though.

[Dunrobin]

My grandfather was a foreman at the Bethlehem Steel shipyard in Quincy Mass., which built the Maripose, Monterey, and Lurline for Matson in the 30s...

It's a small world; my grandfather worked at the Bethlehem Steel mills in Lackawanna, NY.  He may have made the steel that your grandfather used to build the ships.