Topic: Volume 5 1946-1948, March 17

[moglia]

The sound effects were laid in AFTER the sped-up scene was flown in to the mix so, by slowing down the audio, they slowed down the goofy sound effects and the whole 30-second lash-up is a cheap, swirly, fluttery, noise reduction artifacted mess, audio-wise. Great way to twiddle with the pacing of the film, kids!



The damn film has been untampered with for 75 frickin' years! Why start now?! I've said it before and I think it rings true.. Sony has made a boo-boo in turning these films over to the television department. Those "kids" are trying to clean and polish these pictures so they look like they were made yesterday. They were not. They have problems, errors, and technical limitations inherent to filmmaking (budget filmmaking, too!) of yesteryear! Transfer them, and make them look as good as film needs to. Just leave the artistic integrity the hell alone!

Let me put it in simple terms: The things don't need fixin'. Just because you can, don't mean you should!

Am I wrong in getting a teensy weensy bit into the upsent dept.?

Nope you are not wrong. No one bit! It is unforgivable and equates to pure stupidity on Sony's part. Hey Sony just clean these up a bit but for the love of god No More Revisionist Crap. DNR processing can ruin these great films of grain and detail in favor of an artificial digital look so better to underdo than overdo!  Also No one will mind some tape hiss in the audio if anything it adds to the authenticity, the NR makes everything worse and in some cases like it's underwater. 

[xraffle]

Nope you are not wrong. No one bit! It is unforgivable and equates to pure stupidity on Sony's part. Hey Sony just clean these up a bit but for the love of god No More Revisionist Crap. DNR processing can ruin these great films of grain and detail in favor of an artificial digital look so better to underdo than overdo!  Also No one will mind some tape hiss in the audio if anything it adds to the authenticity, the NR makes everything worse and in some cases like it's underwater. 

I'm more than half done with this set and, unlike you and Thump, I don't have any complaints whatsoever. These were beautifully restored and I even watched "The Hot Scots" and everything seemed alright to me. People should be happy that Sony is working hard in getting in all these shorts on DVD. The more people get mad at them, the more likely they'll just stop right here and right now because they'll think that no matter what they do, they can't please us fans.

[dimelives]

I'm more than half done with this set and, unlike you and Thump, I don't have any complaints whatsoever. These were beautifully restored and I even watched "The Hot Scots" and everything seemed alright to me. People should be happy that Sony is working hard in getting in all these shorts on DVD. The more people get mad at them, the more likely they'll just stop right here and right now because they'll think that no matter what they do, they can't please us fans.

Ditto.

[curlysdame]

I'm more than half done with this set and, unlike you and Thump, I don't have any complaints whatsoever. These were beautifully restored and I even watched "The Hot Scots" and everything seemed alright to me. People should be happy that Sony is working hard in getting in all these shorts on DVD. The more people get mad at them, the more likely they'll just stop right here and right now because they'll think that no matter what they do, they can't please us fans.

Exactly.  I still can't believe we've gotten this far into the 'canon.'  "Pinch me, I think I'm dreamin'."  I'm just grateful that these DVDs are being released fairly quickly, and the shorts that really needed some cleaning up got the proper attention.  I'm not gonna look a gift-horse in the mouth. 

[xraffle]

I have to agree with falsealarms earlier when he said that this is the weakest set. The only good Curly shorts are A Bird in the Head and Three Little Pirates. I also like Rhythm and Weep, mainly because of the three pretty girls

It's a different experience watching these shorts in chronological order. It's hard to believe that Beer Barrel Polecats is right after Micro-Phonies. I see a big health deterioration in Curly. But out of these shorts, Curly gives the best performance in Three Little Pirates. I agree what director Edward Bernds said when he claimed that Curly was almost back to his old self. I agree and it really shows as he's very energetic in this short compared to the others. But his health worsens in the next short, Half-Wits Holiday. I have to say, seeing that short is even more depressing when watching it in this set. You see him missing in the pie fight and then you watch the next short, Fright Night, and you see that there's no more Curly. It kind of makes you mourn for him even more.

[ThumpTheShoes]

If Sony continues to go all George Lucas(tm) on these films I could care less if they finish the series. By editing these films, the Sony has proved that it will not give the fans what they want, uncut and unmolested transfers of vintage films. The fans did "request" the sets and Sony's throwing them out there, but on their terms. It's their way of keeping the upper hand, for sure!

But let's look at this fixin' issue from the other angle. If those onion heads had to fix the undercranked audio in The Hot Scots, why didn't they fix the sound in Sing a Song of Six Pants and Sqaureheads of the Round Table? Those shorts feature the same undercranking to speed up the action/pacing. Hell, those shorts had more noticeable pitch-shift than The Hot Scots!

Better question: Does the Sony entity even realise that the young'uns that worked on these films were using them as practice-- learning how to (badly) use Adobe Audition, maybe? (sneer)

Crafty little revisionist changes are unprofessional, in this case wildly inconsistent and thoroughly unnecessary. I'd hate to think this and other releases might have been delayed in order to facilitate such nonsense.

Let me pose an interesting question to all: If you could request changes to be made to the Stooge pictures what would they be? Digitally erase the wires on the special effects? Fix the frog-jumping-down-Shemp's-shirt bit in The Ghost Talks? Erase the holes in that cut-out cloud in Heavenly Daze?

[xraffle]

If Sony continues to go all George Lucas(tm) on these films I could care less if they finish the series. By editing these films, the Sony has proved that it will not give the fans what they want, uncut and unmolested transfers of vintage films. The fans did "request" the sets and Sony's throwing them out there, but on their terms. It's their way of keeping the upper hand, for sure!

But let's look at this fixin' issue from the other angle. If those onion heads had to fix the undercranked audio in The Hot Scots, why didn't they fix the sound in Sing a Song of Six Pants and Sqaureheads of the Round Table? Those shorts feature the same undercranking to speed up the action/pacing. Hell, those shorts had more noticeable pitch-shift than The Hot Scots!

Better question: Does the Sony entity even realise that the young'uns that worked on these films were using them as practice-- learning how to (badly) use Adobe Audition, maybe? (sneer)

Crafty little revisionist changes are unprofessional, in this case wildly inconsistent and thoroughly unnecessary. I'd hate to think this and other releases might have been delayed in order to facilitate such nonsense.

Let me pose an interesting question to all: If you could request changes to be made to the Stooge pictures what would they be? Digitally erase the wires on the special effects? Fix the frog-jumping-down-Shemp's-shirt bit in The Ghost Talks? Erase the holes in that cut-out cloud in Heavenly Daze?

I don't see any "cranking" of audio here. Maybe, the undercranked speeds were problems in the inferior prints and now that Sony used the original negative, we're hearing them the way they supposed to. Whatever it is, I didn't notice anything so serious here. Sheesh. Lighten up!

[curlysdame]

But his health worsens in the next short, Half-Wits Holiday. I have to say, seeing that short is even more depressing when watching it in this set. You see him missing in the pie fight and then you watch the next short, Fright Night, and you see that there's no more Curly. It kind of makes you mourn for him even more.

Wow, I'm going to have to watch those two back to back.  I don't usually like to watch 'Half-Wits' too much. That final "Hrrmmm!" he does right before the pie fight... it's too painful knowing what happened right after that 'lead-in' scene was shot.

[ThumpTheShoes]

Whatever it is, I didn't notice anything so serious here. Sheesh. Lighten up!

If Edison thought like that he never would have invented the Light Days!

 

I need a 

[metaldams]

I haven't noticed anything major so far in terms of tampering with the films, and the prints all look beautiful to me.  I'm going to start with the Shemps as soon as I sign off on the computer.  A few observations.

1.) Depressing watching Curly deteriorate right before my eyes.  The impact becomes more apparant when watching the shorts in chronological order.  You notice it during the last shorts in vol. 4 too, and it's more depressing there because it's preceeded by shorts where he's at his best.

2.) Am I crazy, or is the new footage in BEER BARREL POLECATS actually a quite funny?

3.) MONKEY BUSINESSMAN looks way better than any print I've ever seen.  Jean Willes/Donahue was definitely one of the better looking Stooge gals in my eyes, and I got a huge laugh when she knocked Curly through the door.  Wonder what he proposed?     I know Curly was in bad shape during the filming of that one, but all things considered, I always thought he performed decently.  Ed Bernds did a good job of getting around his sickness, I guess.

4.) UNCIVIL WARBIRDS may be the worst Curly short simply because it's not funny AT ALL.  The same script was only marginally funny in Buster Keaton's hands and uninspired in Abbott and Costello's, so I just think the whole uniform swap is a weak comic idea overall.

[Bum]

I don't see any "cranking" of audio here. Maybe, the undercranked speeds were problems in the inferior prints and now that Sony used the original negative, we're hearing them the way they supposed to. Whatever it is, I didn't notice anything so serious here. Sheesh. Lighten up!

I'm afraid I gotta go with ThumpTheShoes on this one. I didn't notice the audio on this short had been...*AHEM*...corrected until I read this thread. I went back and watched again, and sure enough, the scene [Moe: "Good work Larry/Atta boy/Hey! What happened?"] is now slowed down to where the voices are normal [and in the process, the sound effects lowered in pitch]. It is NOT supposed to sound normal at this point! And no, there's no issue of inferior prints, etc, etc. This, and probably dozens of other Stooges shorts have scenes where the voices were sped up INTENTIONALLY for comic effect. Other "fixes" [the scene in Beer Barrel Polecats I mentioned] are debatable, but I don't think this one is. The audio should not be messed with, especially when there's no mistake to correct!

Perhaps the will leave the scene alone when "Scotched in Scotland" is released, and we'll hear it the way it is meant to be heard....

[metaldams]

Haven't gotten to HOT SCOTS yet, but if they indeed did change the audio for that brief scene, I think it's wrong.

That said, it's also so minor, and something I have zero control over.  Life's too short and I'm not going to let something like this ruin an otherwise great set for me.

[archiezappa]

So far, I've watched nearly the entire first disc.  Everything from "Beer Barrel Polecats" to "Out West."  And I must say that I have absolutely zero complaints about this set.  Seeing and listening to these films with such clarity is something I never thought possible 4 years ago.  Sony has made our dreams come true.  I'm looking forward to the future volumes.  I want them to continue to do what they're doing.  This is the best treatment these films have ever received.

[Bum]

I should clarify that I don't think these alterations ruin the sets for me. I, too, would have considered it unthinkable a few years ago that we'd be able to purchase restored, chronological collections for less than a buck per short [if these sets were $100 each, I'd STILL buy 'em!], and I'm eternally grateful to Sony for giving me the opportunity to do so. No one loves these releases more than I do; however, I just wish they'd leave things alone. That's not gonna happen, though. I'm starting to accept the idea that there's NO upgrade in material out there [be it CD, DVD, etc] where SOMETHING isn't sacrficed in the process of improvement. I'll just have to add the Stooges to my "love-the-DVD's-but-I'm-not-going-to-get-rid-of-my-VHS-versions" pile!

[metaldams]

I should clarify that I don't think these alterations ruin the sets for me. I, too, would have considered it unthinkable a few years ago that we'd be able to purchase restored, chronological collections for less than a buck per short [if these sets were $100 each, I'd STILL buy 'em!], and I'm eternally grateful to Sony for giving me the opportunity to do so. No one loves these releases more than I do; however, I just wish they'd leave things alone. That's not gonna happen, though. I'm starting to accept the idea that there's NO upgrade in material out there [be it CD, DVD, etc] where SOMETHING isn't sacrficed in the process of improvement. I'll just have to add the Stooges to my "love-the-DVD's-but-I'm-not-going-to-get-rid-of-my-VHS-versions" pile!

You're absolutely right.  From a "purist" point of view, there have been so many things I like that have been minorly messed with, be it edited films or slightly remixed/re-recoded music, that you just get to the point when you realize there's nothing you can do and just have to accept things the way they are.

[xraffle]

Haven't gotten to HOT SCOTS yet, but if they indeed did change the audio for that brief scene, I think it's wrong.

I checked "The Hot Scots" again and compared it to my VHS copy. Yes, I confirm that there has been a change. In the end, when the stooges are fighting the crooks, Moe's voice sounds sort of like a chipmunk on the VHS copy. But on the DVD, that has been fixed. I'm not sure if these shorts have been tampered with or what.

If Sony fixed this goof, then I find it odd why they started now. In Booby Dupes, you can see the shadow of a boom mike in the corner of the screen during the scene in the beach. On the "Stooges At Work" DVD, they zoomed in the picture a little bit to correct the goof. However, on the Volume 4 DVD, they didn't and the boom mike is visible.

Nevertheless, it's minor little thing. It's certainly not something that would make me want to tell Sony to stop releasing these DVDs.

[Bum]

If Sony fixed this goof, then I find it odd why they started now. In Booby Dupes, you can see the shadow of a boom mike in the corner of the screen during the scene in the beach. On the "Stooges At Work" DVD, they zoomed in the picture a little bit to correct the goof. However, on the Volume 5 DVD, they didn't and the boom mike is visible.

The difference is.......the visible boom mike WAS a goof, and it wasn't something meant to be seen in the film. The slightly sped-up voices/action, however, were done intentionally at the time of filming, were intended to be in the final film, and shouldn't have been tampered with in 2009. As I said, an annoyance, but a minor one.

[ThumpTheShoes]

If Sony fixed this goof, then I find it odd why they started now. In Booby Dupes, you can see the shadow of a boom mike in the corner of the screen during the scene in the beach. On the "Stooges At Work" DVD, they zoomed in the picture a little bit to correct the goof. However, on the Volume 5 DVD, they didn't and the boom mike is visible.

It is surprising that was left in, considering the fix done for the triple head clonk with a golf ball in Three Little Beers. But that was a good fix, since it is less jarring for today's audiences. It looks less patched together, and when kids run it back frame by frame on their portable player, they won't think the effect was done on the cheap!

[Moe Hailstone]

As much as I love "Hot Scots"...one part would ALWAYS make me cringe.

That was the ending part with the sped up voices.

Yeah, you want the scene to play faster I can understand...but they didn't have ADR back in the day?

I for one am HAPPY to see this fix.  Now the whole short is perfect to me, and I don't cringe at the end anymore.  Sony did a great job fixing this scene, since it didn't seem out of place or weird in anyway.  I watched a TV recording in comparison with the new DVD fixed version and I'll go with Sony's version every time.

I was going to make a comparison video...but since YouTube is acting like Nazi's with copyrights lately (I removed all of my older videos since half of them were deleted by Viacom) I won't even bother.

I would hate to see a fan say "I won't buy any more of the DVD sets" from this small (and well done) fix.  If so...they are not much of a fan in my eyes.

[ThumpTheShoes]

As much as I love "Hot Scots"...one part would ALWAYS make me cringe.

That was the ending part with the sped up voices.

I kinda, sorta get that feeling when watching the "fake Shemp" shorts, when Palma does his Shemp imitation. With some creative editing and available footage/audio, all that could be replaced, covered up, or cut around to make the stand-in less obvious.

Doesn't mean I want Sony to twiddle around with the film, though. 

[archiezappa]

I kinda, sorta get that feeling when watching the "fake Shemp" shorts, when Palma does his Shemp imitation. With some creative editing and available footage/audio, all that could be replaced, covered up, or cut around to make the stand-in less obvious.

Doesn't mean I want Sony to twiddle around with the film, though. 

Yeah, it would be nice if the stand-in for Shemp wasn't so obvious.  But then again, those four films defined the whole "fake Shemp" thing, so maybe we need to be able to tell? 

I was thinking the other day that it's interesting that everyone who was a third Stooge, besides the Howards, were named Joe:  Joe Palma, Joe Besser, Joe DeRita.  Hmm.   

[xraffle]

I just noticed something. On the back cover of this set, the bottom grid doesn't say “Remastered in High Definition." It said that on Volumes 1-4, but it doesn’t say that in this volume. I wonder if that means something. Whatever it means, the picture quality in this set is just as sharp as the previous volumes.

BTW, "Sing a Song of Six Pants" looks the best I've ever seen. For those of you who've been watching this short from your public domain DVDs, you're in for a treat. But I was a bit disappointed with "Crime On Their Hands." During the part where Shemp swallows the Punjab diamond, it looks like an inferior print was spliced in. But the picture goes back to normal once Christine McIntyre calls Muscles and Dapper into the room. When I watched this short on AMC, the picture wasn't like that.

[ThumpTheShoes]

But I was a bit disappointed with "Crime On Their Hands." During the part where Shemp swallows the Punjab diamond, it looks like an inferior print was spliced in. But the picture goes back to normal once Christine McIntyre calls Muscles and Dapper into the room. When I watched this short on AMC, the picture wasn't like that.

Looks just like that on the previous "Cops and Robbers" dvd, as well.

[xraffle]

Looks just like that on the previous "Cops and Robbers" dvd, as well.

Yeah, I know. I would've came to the conclusion that maybe something happened to the original negative and that maybe that was the best Sony could've done, but that short was in perfect shape when it aired on AMC.

[dimelives]

You sure it didn't just SEEM perfect on AMC cuz the rest wasn't restored either, and so it just looked more consistent?