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Risque humor in I'LL NEVER HEIL AGAIN?

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Offline metaldams

I had a great find in I'LL NEVER HEIL AGAIN which I never noticed.  When they show the map, check out the country BULGE-AREA, which is bordered by.............BIG ZIPPER.  Never noiced that one, or put two and two together before.  Anybody else notice this?  The Hays Office sure didn't.
- Doug Sarnecky


Offline curlysdame

Oh yeah!  I just noticed that, too!  Haha.  How about that part, right after the map scene, where Curly takes the maid aside and asks, "Have I told you of the six delicious favors?"  I always thought that was a bit risque, also.  LoL, leave it to Curly to say something like that.

 
"Imagine five things like us in one room??  I can't stand it!" - Curly (Time Out For Rhythm 1941)


Offline busybuddy

You think this is dirty? Check out the map in Stone Age Romeos! There's two islands next to each other called "Isle Liquor" and "Yule Liquor." (I may have the spelling wrong, but thats what it says!
I think Birdie will go for that!


Offline FineBari3

Oh yeah!  I just noticed that, too!  Haha.  How about that part, right after the map scene, where Curly takes the maid aside and asks, "Have I told you of the six delicious favors?"  I always thought that was a bit risque, also.  LoL, leave it to Curly to say something like that.

 

I have always wondered if that was some sort of pop culture reference of that era, perhaps an advertisment. I also thought it could be part of a joke at that time.
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"Moe is their leader." -Homer Simpson


Offline BeAStooge

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"Have I told you of the six delicious favors?"  I always thought that was a bit risque, also. 

"Have I told you about the six delicious flavors" was one of Jell-O's commercial slogans, which became a catch-phrase of the time due to Jell-O being the sponsor of the top-rated THE JACK BENNY PROGRAM from 1934 - 1942.


Offline Sadistic Stooge

"Have I told you about the six delicious flavors" was one of Jell-O's commercial slogans, which became a catch-phrase of the time due to Jell-O being the sponsor of the top-rated THE JACK BENNY PROGRAM from 1934 - 1942.

thanks, I always wanted to know what that meant    [stooges]


Offline Dunrobin

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thanks, I always wanted to know what that meant    [stooges]

Same here.  I always suspected that Curly's line was a reference to something from the time period, but never knew what.  We should probably add that to the footnotes for the episode.   ;)


Offline Sadistic Stooge

I like to see more posts like this one, of what some things meant from there time period . I just cant think of any right now .


stooged and confused

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I like to see more posts like this one, of what some things meant from there time period . I just cant think of any right now .
One that comes to mind is the line Curly says in Oily to Bed, Oily to Rise: "We'll honeymoon in Canada". I learned years later that it refered to the sextuplets that were born there.


Offline Sadistic Stooge

yeah , I found out about that one as well . that took a little work but I was watching Rich Koz in Chicago on stooge a polooza and right before he played Oily to Bed, Oily to Rise he talked about what it meant .


Offline Moron4392

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Everyone:

I do not care if this might start a fight with you and me.  I am making my first post since you ripped me apart on Joe Besser.  But I think all of you have gutter based brains.

You have your opinions and I have mine.  I viewed those shorts hundreds of times and never once did my "coconut" travel to the land of the gutter.  Maybe because I am a "Frog", seniour citizen, compared to all of you I am, 50 rocks.  Retired and going to school in computer technology.

Hoekstra

Only posts I make are my transcripts they are a good way to use the brain you have.
 If you can't behave like an adult then don't post. S#1


Offline metaldams

Everyone:

I do not care if this might start a fight with you and me.  I am making my first post since you ripped me apart on Joe Besser.  But I think all of you have gutter based brains.

You have your opinions and I have mine.  I viewed those shorts hundreds of times and never once did my "coconut" travel to the land of the gutter.  Maybe because I am a "Frog", seniour citizen, compared to all of you I am, 50 rocks.  Retired and going to school in computer technology.

Hoekstra

Only posts I make are my transcripts they are a good way to use the brain you have.

Diane, instead of attacking us, would you care to intelligently debate the points we brought up?
- Doug Sarnecky


xraffle

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Everyone:

I do not care if this might start a fight with you and me.  I am making my first post since you ripped me apart on Joe Besser.  But I think all of you have gutter based brains.

You have your opinions and I have mine.  I viewed those shorts hundreds of times and never once did my "coconut" travel to the land of the gutter.  Maybe because I am a "Frog", seniour citizen, compared to all of you I am, 50 rocks.  Retired and going to school in computer technology.

Hoekstra

Only posts I make are my transcripts they are a good way to use the brain you have.

Everything ok there, Diane? You seem quite angry. I hope we didn't say anything to offend you.



Offline metaldams

Everything ok there, Diane? You seem quite angry. I hope we didn't say anything to offend you.



Ixnay on the apologies x, nobody said anything wrong.  Like I said, I invite Diane to intelligently debate our points.
- Doug Sarnecky


Offline metaldams

You think this is dirty? Check out the map in Stone Age Romeos! There's two islands next to each other called "Isle Liquor" and "Yule Liquor." (I may have the spelling wrong, but thats what it says!

I've only seen STONE AGE ROMEOS a few times, and not the greatest print either.  I'll have to look for that if Sony releases it in a later volume.
- Doug Sarnecky


Offline curlysdame

Everyone:

I do not care if this might start a fight with you and me.  I am making my first post since you ripped me apart on Joe Besser.  But I think all of you have gutter based brains.

You have your opinions and I have mine.  I viewed those shorts hundreds of times and never once did my "coconut" travel to the land of the gutter.  Maybe because I am a "Frog", seniour citizen, compared to all of you I am, 50 rocks.  Retired and going to school in computer technology.

Hoekstra

Only posts I make are my transcripts they are a good way to use the brain you have.


Diane, you do seem like a very angry person, and I'm sure there's some unresolved issues there.  However, stop leaving me random, belligerent emails in my inbox.  This is the second or third time you've done this to me; it's bizarre and completely uncalled for.  You obviously don't have a lot going on if you write me angry messages about stuff you posted in a thread.  You're ridiculous; get a hobby, or a cat, or something:


Dear Mame:

Say what you may about me.  But your translations of "ISLE LIQUOUR" AND "YULE LIQUOUR" in your way of thinking is that of only a gutter based brain.  I mention this to you and your band of merry men.  I never would of translated it that way, because my brain is not in the gutter like yours.

I have not made a post here since you sliced me to ribbons on my opinion of Besser as a Stooge.  The only posts that I put here now are just transcripts.  Plus my monthly donations.

Hoekstra


First of all, if you're gonna start mudslinging, Diane, at least read the threads to see who said what.  I never posted the "Isle Liquor" stuff.  ...My band of merry men?  What the hell are you talking about?   [nuts]

Secondly, this business of me being "gutter minded:"  I won't mince words; yes, I think about sex -- I'm 21.  That's called being a normally functioning human being.  But that, in no way, makes me gutter minded.  From the way you sound, the only action you probably get is from a yearly physical.

Apparently, you're not just sticking to the transcripts, because, well..... you're starting more bs in the threads again...
"Imagine five things like us in one room??  I can't stand it!" - Curly (Time Out For Rhythm 1941)


xraffle

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curlysdame: I agree with you. Diane is going too far now. We had a slight little misunderstanding at the Besser thread, so we all apologized and welcomed her back. Now, for no good reason, she flips out on us. Then she PMs me saying that I'm not treating her like an adult. ???

Is it me or am I missing something here?


Offline curlysdame

curlysdame: I agree with you. Diane is going too far now. We had a slight little misunderstanding at the Besser thread, so we all apologized and welcomed her back. Now, for no good reason, she flips out on us. Then she PMs me saying that I'm not treating her like an adult. ???

Is it me or am I missing something here?

Wow.  Something's missing alright.
"Imagine five things like us in one room??  I can't stand it!" - Curly (Time Out For Rhythm 1941)


xraffle

  • Guest
Looks like her angry post got deleted. Well, at least, three of us quoted that post so the evidence isn't gone.



Offline Justin T

Yikes, that was uncalled for behavior from Diane.

Kudos to the moderator who deleted that post.

I've seen and heard more graphic and explicit discussions that would better fit the
label "gutter minded" than what was going on in this thread. The discussion that
was going on here was not even close to the level of offense that she seems
to be claiming.

That angry post was bad enough but the PM's she sends to culrysdame were even worse
and totally uncalled for. Thanks for posting that for us.


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Moe: Brilliant, what’ll it be?
Larry: Open The Door!
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Offline shemps#1

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She must have deleted the post on her own because there is nothing in the moderation log about it. It's back now.
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Offline metaldams

I think about sex -- I'm 21.

Wasn't that the subject line of a recent spam e-mail I received?  [pie]

Sorry, couldn't resist, but I think this thread needs to be lightened up, especially since I thought the topic was a bit interesting before the interruption.  If anybody wants to discuss censorship and double entendres further, please don't let Diane stop you.  In the meantime, I'm going to place a link to a wikipedia article about the Hays office, which might shed a little light on why film comedians during the Stooges day were "clean."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Production_Code

The Production Code (also known as the Hays Code) was the set of industry censorship guidelines governing the production of United States motion pictures. The Motion Pictures Producers and Distributors Association (MPPDA), which later became the Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA), adopted the code in 1930, began effectively enforcing it in 1934, and abandoned it in 1968 in favor of the subsequent MPAA film rating system. The Production Code spelled out what was morally acceptable and morally unacceptable content for motion pictures produced for a public audience in the United States.

Contents [hide]
1 Provisions of the Code
2 History
2.1 Before the Production Code
2.2 1930 to 1934: The start of the Hays Code
2.3 Enforcement
2.4 The 1950s and early 1960s
2.5 The end of the Code
3 See also
4 Notes
5 References
6 Further reading
7 External links
 


[edit] Provisions of the Code
The Production Code enumerated three "General Principles" as follows:

No picture shall be produced that will lower the moral standards of those who see it. Hence the sympathy of the audience should never be thrown to the side of crime, wrongdoing, evil or sin.
Correct standards of life, subject only to the requirements of drama and entertainment, shall be presented.
Law, natural or human, shall not be ridiculed, nor shall sympathy be created for its violation.
Specific restrictions were spelled out as "Particular Applications" of these principles:

Nudity and suggestive dances were prohibited.
The ridicule of religion was forbidden, and ministers of religion were not to be represented as comic characters or villains.
The depiction of illegal drug use was forbidden, as well as the use of liquor, "when not required by the plot or for proper characterization."
Methods of crime (e.g. safe-cracking, arson, smuggling) were not to be explicitly presented.
References to alleged sex perversion (such as homosexuality) and venereal disease were forbidden, as were depictions of childbirth.
The language section banned various words and phrases that were considered to be offensive.
Murder scenes had to be filmed in a way that would discourage imitations in real life, and brutal killings could not be shown in detail. "Revenge in modern times" was not to be justified.
The sanctity of marriage and the home had to be upheld. "Pictures shall not imply that low forms of sex relationship are the accepted or common thing." Adultery and illicit sex, although recognized as sometimes necessary to the plot, could not be explicit or justified and were not supposed to be presented as an attractive option.
Portrayals of miscegenation were forbidden.
"Scenes of Passion" were not to be introduced when not essential to the plot. "Excessive and lustful kissing" was to be avoided, along with any other treatment that might "stimulate the lower and baser element."
The flag of the United States was to be treated respectfully, and the people and history of other nations were to be presented "fairly."
The treatment of "Vulgarity," defined as "low, disgusting, unpleasant, though not necessarily evil, subjects" must be "subject to the dictates of good taste." Capital punishment, "third-degree methods," cruelty to children and animals, prostitution and surgical operations were to be handled with similar sensitivity.

[edit] History

[edit] Before the Production Code
City and state censorship ordinances are as old as the movies themselves. However, after the United States Supreme Court ruled in 1915 (Mutual Film Corporation v. Industrial Commission of Ohio) that motion pictures were merely a business and not an art form, and thus not covered by the First Amendment, such ordinances banning the public exhibition of "immoral" films proliferated. The studios feared that federal regulations were not far off.

In the early 1920s, three major scandals had rocked Hollywood: the manslaughter trials of comedy star Roscoe 'Fatty' Arbuckle who was charged with being responsible for the death of actress Virginia Rappe at a wild party in San Francisco during Labor Day weekend of 1921; the murder of director William Desmond Taylor in February 1922 and the revelations regarding his bisexuality; and the drug-related death of popular actor Wallace Reid in January 1923.

Other allegedly drug-related deaths of stars Olive Thomas, Barbara La Marr, Jeanne Eagels, and Alma Rubens resulted in persistent calls for censorship and "cleaning up" of Hollywood all through the '20s. These stories were sensationalized in the press and grabbed headlines across the country. They appeared to confirm a widespread perception that many Americans had of Hollywood — that it was "Sin City".

Public outcry over perceived immorality in Hollywood and the movies, as well as the growing number of city and state censorship boards, led to the creation in 1922 of the Motion Pictures Producers and Distributors Association (which became the Motion Picture Association of America in 1945), an industry trade and lobby organization. The association was headed by Will H. Hays, a well-connected Republican lawyer who had previously been United States Postmaster General and the 1920 campaign manager for President Warren G. Harding. Hays immediately banned Fatty Arbuckle from the movies and instituted a morality clause to apply to anyone working in films. He also derailed attempts to institute federal censorship over the movies.

In 1927 Hays compiled a list of subjects, culled from his experience with the various U.S. censorship boards, which he felt Hollywood studios would be wise to avoid. He called this list "the formula" but it was popularly known as the "don'ts and be carefuls" list around town. In 1930 Hays created the Studio Relations Committee (SRC) to implement his censorship code, but the SRC lacked any real enforcement capability.


[edit] 1930 to 1934: The start of the Hays Code
The advent of talking pictures in 1927 signaled the need for further enforcement. Martin J. Quigley, the publisher of a Chicago-based motion picture trade newspaper, began lobbying for a more extensive code that not only listed material that was inappropriate for the movies, but also contained a moral system that the movies could help to promote--specifically a system based on Catholic theology. He recruited Father Daniel Lord, a Jesuit priest and instructor at the Catholic St. Louis University, to write such a code and on March 31, 1930 the board of directors of the Motion Picture Producers and Distributors Association adopted it formally. It has become known to posterity as the Hays Code.

However, Depression economics and changing social mores resulted in the studios producing racier fare that the Code, lacking an aggressive enforcement body, was unable to redress. This era of Hollywood filmmaking is therefore known as the "pre-Code era."


[edit] Enforcement
In response to such movies as Warner Brothers' Baby Face (starring Barbara Stanwyck) and Paramount Pictures' I'm No Angel (starring and written by Mae West), Quigley and Joseph I. Breen, Will Hays's Los Angeles–based assistant, conspired to use the Catholic Church to exert pressure on the Hollywood studios. They helped spearhead the creation of the Catholic Legion of Decency as well as boycotts and blacklists of the movies throughout the country.

An amendment to the Code, adopted on June 13, 1934, established the Production Code Administration (PCA), and required all films released on or after July 1 1934 to obtain a certificate of approval before being released. For more than thirty years following, virtually all motion pictures produced in the United States adhered to the code. [1] The Production Code was not created or enforced by federal, state, or city government. In fact, the Hollywood studios adopted the code in large part in the hopes of avoiding government censorship, preferring self-regulation to government regulation.

The enforcement of the Production Code led to the dissolution of many local censorship boards. Meanwhile, the U.S. Customs Department prohibited the importation of the Czech film Ecstasy (1933), starring an actress soon to be known as Hedy Lamarr, an action which was upheld on appeal.

In 1934, Joseph I. Breen (1888-1965) was appointed head of the new Production Code Administration (PCA). Under Breen's leadership of the PCA, which lasted until his retirement in 1954, enforcement of the Production Code became rigid and notorious. Breen's power to change scripts and scenes angered many writers, directors, and Hollywood moguls.

The first major instance of censorship under the Production Code involved the 1934 film Tarzan and His Mate, in which brief nude scenes involving a body double for actress Maureen O'Sullivan were edited out of the master negative of the film. Another famous case of enforcement involved the 1943 western The Outlaw, produced by Howard Hughes. The Outlaw was denied a certificate of approval and kept out of theaters for years because the film's advertising focused particular attention on Jane Russell's breasts. Hughes eventually persuaded Breen that the breasts did not violate the code and the film could be shown.

Some films produced outside the mainstream studio system during this time did flout the conventions of the code, such as Child Bride (1938), which featured a nude scene involving 12-year-old actress Shirley Mills. Even cartoon sex symbol Betty Boop had to change from being a flapper, and began to wear an old-fashioned housewife skirt.


[edit] The 1950s and early 1960s
Hollywood worked within the confines of the Production Code until the late 1950s, by which time the "Golden Age of Hollywood" had ended, and the movies were faced with very serious competitive threats. The first threat came from a new technology, television, which did not require Americans to leave their house to watch moving pictures. Hollywood needed to offer the public something it could not get on television, which itself was under an even more restrictive censorship code.

In addition to the threat of television, there was also increasing competition from foreign films, like Vittorio de Sica's Bicycle Thieves (1948), the Swedish film Hon dansade en sommar (English title: One Summer of Happiness) (1951), and Ingmar Bergman's Sommar med Monika (Summer with Monika) (1953). For De Sica's film, there was a censorship controversy when the MPAA demanded a scene where the lead characters talk to the prostitutes of a brothel be removed, regardless of the fact that there is no sexual or provocative activity. The Swedish films were the first to include nude love scenes, and made an international sensation.

Vertical integration in the movie industry had been found to violate anti-trust laws, and studios had been forced to give up ownership of theatres by the U.S. Supreme Court in United States v. Paramount Pictures, Inc. (1948). The studios had no way to keep foreign films out, and foreign films weren't bound by the Production Code. The anti-trust rulings also helped pave the way for independent art houses that would show films created by people such as Andy Warhol and others working outside the studio system.

Finally, a boycott from the Legion of Decency no longer guaranteed a commercial failure, and thus the Code prohibitions began to vanish when Hollywood producers ignored the Code and were still able to earn profits.

The MPAA revised the code in 1951, not to make it more flexible, but to make it more rigid. The 1951 revisions spelled out more words and subjects that were prohibited, and no doubt increased the opposition of movie-makers to the code.

In 1952, in the case of Joseph Burstyn, Inc. v. Wilson, the U.S. Supreme Court unanimously overruled its 1915 decision and held that motion pictures were entitled to First Amendment protection, so that the New York Board of Regents could not ban Roberto Rossellini's The Miracle. This became known as the "Miracle Decision" due to its connection to Rossellini's film. That in turn reduced the threat of government regulation that justified the production code, and the PCA's powers over the Hollywood industry were greatly reduced.[2]

At the forefront of challenges to the code was director Otto Preminger, whose films violated the code repeatedly in the 1950s. His 1953 film The Moon is Blue, about a young woman who tries to play two suitors off against each other by claiming that she plans to keep her virginity until marriage, was the first film to use the words "virgin", "seduce" and "mistress", and it was released without a certificate of approval. He later made The Man with the Golden Arm (1955), which portrayed the prohibited subject of drug abuse, and Anatomy of a Murder (1959) which dealt with rape. Preminger's films were direct assaults on the authority of the Production Code and, since they were successful, hastened its abandonment.

In 1954, Joseph Breen retired and Geoffrey Shurlock was appointed as his successor. Variety noted "a decided tendency towards a broader, more casual approach" in the enforcement of the code.

Billy Wilder's Some Like It Hot (1959) and Alfred Hitchcock's Psycho (1960) were also released without a certificate of approval due to their themes and became box office hits, and as a result further weakened the authority of the code.


[edit] The end of the Code
In the early 1960s, British films such as Victim (1961), A Taste of Honey (1961), and The Leather Boys (1963) offered a daring social commentary about gender roles and homophobia that violated the Hollywood Production Code, yet the films were still released in America. The American gay rights, civil rights, and youth movements prompted a reevaluation of the depiction of themes of race, class, gender, and sexuality that had been restricted by the Code.

When Jack Valenti became President of the MPAA in 1966, he was immediately faced with a problem regarding language in the film version of Edward Albee's play Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? (1966). Valenti negotiated a compromise: The word "screw" was removed, but other language, including the phrase "hump the hostess," remained. The film received Production Code approval despite having language that was clearly prohibited.

The film Blowup (1967) presented a different problem. After the film was denied Production Code approval, MGM released it anyway, the first instance of an MPAA member company distributing a film that didn't have an approval certificate. There was little the MPAA could do about it.

Enforcement had become impossible, and the Production Code was abandoned entirely. The MPAA began working on a rating system, under which there would be virtually no restriction on what could be in a film. The MPAA film rating system went into effect on November 1, 1968 with four ratings: G, M, R, and X. In 1969, the Swedish film I Am Curious (Yellow) directed by Vilgot Sjöman, was initially banned in the U.S. for its frank depiction of sexuality; however this was overturned by the Supreme Court.

The M rating was changed to GP in 1970 and to the current PG in 1972. In 1984, in response to public complaints regarding the severity of horror elements in PG-rated titles such as Gremlins and Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom, the PG-13 rating was created as a middle tier between PG and R. In 1990, the X rating was replaced by NC-17, in part because the X rating was not trademarked by the MPAA whereas pornographic bookstores and theatres were using their own trademark X and XXX symbols to market their products.


[edit] See also
The Celluloid Closet
Comics Code Authority, which functions similarly for the comics industry
Pre-Code

[edit] Notes
^ Doherty, Thomas "The Code Before 'Da Vinci'" Washington Post (May 20, 2006)
^ Sperling, Millner, and Warner (1998), Hollywood Be Thy Name, Prima Publishing, ISN:559858346 p. 325.

[edit] References
Motion Picture Association of America: History and Film Ratings
Epstein, Rob and Friedman, Jeffrey. The Celluloid Closet (1995) documentary film

[edit] Further reading
Miller, Frank, Censored Hollywood; Atlanta: Turner Publishing, 1994; ISBN 1-57036-116-9
Lewis, Jon, Hollywood v. Hard Core: How the Struggle Over Censorship Saved the Modern Film Industry; New York University Press, 2000; ISBN 0-8147-5142-3
LaSalle, Mick, Complicated Women: Sex and Power in Pre-Code Hollywood; New York: St. Martin's Press, 2000; ISBN 0-312-25207-2

[edit] External links
Bibliography of books articles about movie censorship (via UC Berkeley)
Complete list of the 36 'Don'ts and Be Carefuls' of 1927
Complete text of the Motion Picture Production Code of 1930 (without the subsequent amendments)
The Production Code of the Motion Picture Industry (includes examples and articles)
More Sinned Against than Sinning: The Fabrications of "Pre-Code Cinema"
Talking Pictures website: Article by Nigel Watson about film censorship issues accompanied by classroom activities for students
Filmnummers: Numbered list of Production Code certificates of approval
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Motion_Picture_Production_Code_of_1930"
- Doug Sarnecky


xraffle

  • Guest
That angry post was bad enough but the PM's she sends to culrysdame were even worse
and totally uncalled for. Thanks for posting that for us.

She's sending me PMs as well. I just got another ridiculous one from her now. She wants to refrain from posting but yet she PMs every member to annoy them. I'm so infuriated right now that I've added her to my block list. What the hell has gotten into her?



Offline metaldams

She's sending me PMs as well. I just got another ridiculous one from her now. She wants to refrain from posting but yet she PMs every member to annoy them. I'm so infuriated right now that I've added her to my block list. What the hell has gotten into her?



You guys can tell Diane if she PM's you one more time, she's banned.
- Doug Sarnecky


xraffle

  • Guest
You guys can tell Diane if she PM's you one more time, she's banned.

I blocked her so I won't be hearing from her again. Anyways, sorry for getting this thread off-topic again. We shouldn't let this mess interfere with this interesting subject.