Topic: Why you can't have another Stooges team.

[Marcos]

First off, I am new here and I have to say I love this website.  I am in the Army and I am stationed in South Korea.  We don't get much in the way of a variety of entertainment.  Being able to watch the Stooges on this site has been a great way to get some qaulity comedy.  I have watched all the videos and I am watching them all again.  Thanks for putting together a great site.

Now, I was wondering what all of you thought of this: Why when someone tries to remake Stooge shorts or attempt to make another Stooge team it always fails?

First, I think that since we all associate those roles with the original actors, no one can replace them.  And when they try their efforts seem contrived and forced.

Second, I think that most people wrongly assume that all their comedy is physical.  I think they show some pretty witty humor.  For example;  In Pop Goes the Easel, the boys are dressed in women's clothes, Curly introduces Larry and Moe.  "This is my sister Crummett.  And this, is my mother."  Moe is obviously insulted at the implication that he is old, and what's more old enough to be Curly's "mother".  That would be something you would see in intelligent comedies of today, like something Carl Reiner would write.  In another example;  In Squareheads of the Roundtable Shemp is supposed to climb up to get the princess held by her father.  Shemp doesn't want to of course and he tells Moe:  "What if she screams her head off as soon as she sees me?"  Moe replies:  "I wouldn't blame her."  This even made my wife laugh out loud, and she never liked or understood the Stooges (no suprise there).

I think that their verbal humor is very funny and greatly overlooked by most people.

What do you all think?

[shemps#1]

First off, happy holidays. I hope you are celebrating them the best you can over there.

Secondly, to answer your question...money. That's all, nothing more, nothing less. It doesn't matter to the people who hold the proper licenses that anything that they try to pass off as "new" Stooges material isn't going to cut it artistically; that no three people can replace Moe/Larry/Curly/Shemp or whatever incarnation you can think of (although Derita can easily be substituted by picking up excess fat from a few liposuctions). All that matters to them is squeezing every last cent possible out of the Stooges dwindling fan base.

Yes, I said dwindling. When I first got into the Stooges there were more people my age into them as well. They were easily able to attract younger and younger people thusly keeping their legacy alive (much like The Beatles in music), but with all the crappy merchandise (such as my favorite, Stooges lawn jockeys), the poor treatment the Stooges have recieved on the home video market over the years, and especially the lack of solid tv programming, the Stooges popularity has shrunk. Very rarely do you see younger Stooge fans anymore, and that is not good for their legacy. The people who love the Stooges now are getting sick of being cornholed and are buying less merchandise as a result. I'm pretty sure that stuff like DVD's, shirts, and whatnot are still doing decent business, but the rubber duckies and lawn jockeys are mostly sitting in the warehouse.

The Stooges had a magic and chemistry that can never be duplicated. They tried it themselves by hiring Besser and Derita, and although they had commercial sucess with Derita I am convinced that success is due to small children confusing him for Curly Howard. Derita had nothing to do with it at all. Even after Moe's death they have tried to cash in with movies like Stoogemania and that crappy tv movie awhile back, not to mention cartoons like Stooges on Scooby Doo and "The Robotic Stooges" (or some such garbage).

So get used to it; as long as the Three Stooges have any sort of following at all, C3 (before them Norm Maurer, or whomever may acquire the license from them) will find new ways to bleed them dry.

[Baggie]

 I agree with Jim. I don't even know of ANY Stooge fans over in England, never mind what age or sex they are. If C3 or Columbia continue to neglect Stooge fans, soon, when we are all old (or dead), there will be no new Stooge fans to take over and carry on their legacy. I'm 18 and I'm probably one of the youngest members of the site, which is very sad. The Stooges are great and need more attention from everybody, but how that could happen I have no idea, the way things are right now. It's sad but true.

Merry Christmas everyone, by the way.

Sarah.

[Stoop]

I'm 18 and I'm probably one of the youngest members of the site, which is very sad. The Stooges are great and need more attention from everybody, but how that could happen I have no idea, the way things are right now. It's sad but true.

It is sad. The Three Stooges should not be forgotten, because that kind of humor and chemistry cannot be duplicated, and is hard to come by.

[jaronson]

Actually, Shempetta, you're not the youngest on this board.  I'll only be 16 next month and I think there are still others around my age.  However, it's still sad how few of us young people love the Stooges.  I know for a fact that when I have kids I'll bring them up to like the Stooges like my dad did for me.

[Marcos]

You know Shemps#1, your point is completely valid and I have to say that, unfortunately, I agree with you 100%.  It is sad that money is the driving force behind the lack of Stooge exposure.  I wonder if it ever occured to those thick headed individuals that make those decisions that if they tried courting younger viewers that they might end up making more money from a whole new fan base.

But, I was actually hoping to spark a conversation on the finer points of Stooge comedy and what it would take to make another comedy team that followed in the footsteps of physical comedy made famous by the team of Howard, Fine, and Howard.  I am not implying that anyone can take their place or simply trying to smack one another around would constitute a good physical comedy.  I was wondering how would a new team go about it and what made the Stooges work so well together.  Is it simply the physical aspect of their comedy that which made them so funny, or is it a well timed head bonk in addition to a subtle but witty dialog?

[scribe8585]

The DVD's - even the Columbia issued ones - are getting harder and harder to find. About the only ones you can find where I live (upstate NY) are the two colorized ones, and maybe... maybe ... Stooges at Work. There's two Best Buy's, a Circuit City, and about 7(!) FYE's within an hour of me... and the same story holds true at all of them. Other than that, not many stores even seem to bother stocking Stooge DVDs. That's a stark contrast to when the Stooges were out on VHS - you could find those things everywhere. Is that true for others here??

Black and white scares kids off much more than it used to. I remember watching the Stooges when I was 3, 4, 5 years old on WSBK-38 and loved everything I saw. As the 90s progressed, and into today, kids are increasingly NOT tolerant for black and white films.

And, yeah, no national TV hurts a lot. AMC and The Family Channel could have made the Stooges special, but from the missing 60, to murdered shorts, to a queer NYUK routine, the presentation was horrible.

I'm only 19, so I'm one of the younger ones here too. But it's true, most Stooge fans are not nearly as young as I am.

[locoboymakesgood]

I'm 18 like Shempetta. I was exposed to the Stooges when I was 1 back in 1987, and have been a Stoogefan ever since. The Stooges have been in my family since 1934 with my grandfather, who showed my father them, and then me. If I have a son some day I'll do the same thing. The problem is, when I was little, the Stooges were always on TV. Sunday mornings at 8 meant an hour of "hilarious hijinx" (as the station put it), with me sitting right in front of the TV watching. Now, with Columbia handling the Stooges the way they are, it'll be impossible to show my children them unless they have them on video. Something needs to be done, that's for sure. Anyway, I'm ranting.

At the subject on hand, you can't have anything like the Stooges this day in age. It won't work. Times have changed, and unfortunately is neglecting us who have been fans for years. *sigh*

[Honey Bear]

Now, I was wondering what all of you thought of this: Why when someone tries to remake Stooge shorts or attempt to make another Stooge team it always fails?

First, I think that since we all associate those roles with the original actors, no one can replace them.  And when they try their efforts seem contrived and forced.

I agree. I would like to add that I personally believe what makes the teams of Moe, Larry, Curly & Moe, Larry, Shemp work is their intangible chemistry. That'll be nigh impossible to replicate.
I also feel that despite The Stooges superficial "mean-spirited" physical humor towards one another and at the world in general; they come across as being genuinely lovable beings. I feel that even though they're a misguided bunch, I still find myself wanting to root for them in their endeavors. I doubt there are many comedians (and especially comedic teams) who are capable of walking that fine line of despicability and delightfulness without the routine becoming a sickening artifice.

Second, I think that most people wrongly assume that all their comedy is physical.  I think they show some pretty witty humor.
[edited]
I think that their verbal humor is very funny and greatly overlooked by most people.

What do you all think?

I have to agree again with your assessment. I was a major Stooge-phile as a child but I haven't watched The Boys in awhile. I got back into watching them recently and erroneously thought that I wouldn't find them as funny because I'm now an adult. Ay, was I wrong! I think The Stooges are as funny as ever. I still enjoy the politically incorrect™ slapstick but I have begun to appreciate their witty verbal humor too.

Another thing I've recently noticed is that I now realize they had a lot of adult humor laced into their work also. For instance, in Whoops, I’m an Indian that stuff about keeping wigwams warm and honeymoon surprises went completely over my head as a little kid. I also now understand why The Stooges were in such a hurry to kick-off the honeymoon phase of their marriages in The Sitter-Downers. When I recently viewed, Heavenly Daze, Shemp's angel wings uncontrollably elevating as he hyperventilated over Uncle Mortimer's beautiful angelic assistant had me blushing and in stitches. I definitely didn't get the innuendo of Shemp's saluting wings as a kid, that’s for sure. It's bizarre to watch the shorts now and realize that The Stooges were sexual beings. 

IMHO, maybe that's why it seems that most Stooge fans don't outgrow their fondness of the team because their humor is multilayered and is meant to be enjoyed at any stage in life.

[kinderscenen]

The shrinking fan base is something that I'd never thought of until some of the young'uns mentioned that there were few Stooge fans their age.  As I recall, there weren't that many when I was a kid (mid-late 80's), and this was when they were still being aired locally (and I'm assuming on cable).  All of the references, etc., were made by people who were either in their 20's or more at the time.  The fans I run into now are older than I am, and they too wonder why the fellows are seemingly ignored by those in the marketing "know". 

The "adult" humor of the shorts went over my head as well--the whole "C-girls!" gag meant nothing to me until fairly recently, and although I'm not sure if it's adult or not, Curly's lines about "everyone enters through an exit" certainly had me cracking up.

But to wrap this up, if Elvis can make more money and stay "hip" (?!) almost 30 years after his death, I see no reason why the Stooges' legacy couldn't be continued in the same manner.  But what do we know? We're just fans....

[songnar]

Aw, gee, I'm Songnar (16) and, here in the dixen (south) The Three Stooges are still going strong! =)

At that note, they will never be replicated quite right for much the same reasons that there is never a good Elvis impersonation, and the same reason there will never be another Lucille Ball. The Three Stooges are gods, and nobody mocks, mimics or recreates god.

[Lola-Lou]

Well, I'm 18 (as of the 6th this month...YAY), and I've noticed that there are very few people my age and younger that do not share my interest in The Three Stooges. I think that is because they aren't shown on the local (Michigan) TV stations or because many people my age are turned off by them being in B&W and from the '30s. I only have an interest in The Stooges because my late grandmother would tape them for me from TBS. If I didn't have that, I don't think I would be interested either. Maybe this means The Stooges' popularity is on its way out. Thank God for film festivals and cable TV.

[Watts Dee Matter]

The Stooges are the best thing that ever happend on tv, and in the talkies, i hope that us stooge fans, and enthusiasts, will tell the younger generations about the greatest comedy trio in existance, they need to be introduced early, quite like my self. Don't let the three stooges be forgotten!

[Gorilla Watson]

If I may be allowed to bring up an old thread....

When it comes to replacing the Stooges, it's way too late. All the good contenders died or passed their heyday by roughly the middle of the last century. You need actor/commedians who were in Vaudeville or who had some other form of experience in fast paced comedy, to make it work. So for the sake of argument, let's say Moe and Larry retired the act after the Joe Besser era. They give their blessing for a new Stooges team to take their place:

Bud Abbott would still be around for 15 years. He would've made a great Moe character. Lou Costello died in '58 or 59, so he's out. Joe DeRita could be the middleman and maybe a skinny man can be the third Stooge. What about Arthur Lake, who played Dagwood in the Blondie movies? He wouldn't be too young and can basically reprise his Dagwood character, just not going by the name Dagwood. I think this team would have a shot, except I don't know when Abbot's health started declining.

Harold "Tiny" Brauer might have made a good Moe character. Jackie "Uncle Fester" Coogan looked and sounded much more like Curly than DeRita did, and probably had the energy of pre-1945 Curly to boot, so he could be the new Curly. Emil Sitka can be the middleman.

Or you could just have DeRita's short-lived team of Stooges in the 1970's (which included Mousie Garner, didn't it?) try their act after the Besser era.

Basically, any of the actors mentioned above could be in a new team of Stooges. Most of them could did it right off the Shemp era if Moe and Larry would've retired then. So a new team of Stooges wasn't so far-fetched until the late 1960's, when the DeRita era had been in full swing for years and showed no signs of ending. I know there are fans who are Moe and Larry purists and wouldn't have wanted them to pass the act on to others, but if they did it when they had the chance between third Stooge eras, there really could've been other completely different Stooge teams (even considering DeRita, since he wouldn't have worked with Moe and Larry) that we could have liked.

But as far as new Stooge teams with players that were born after Vaudeville died, whether they had experience with fast paced comedy or not, forget it. They wouldn't be fit to tie the Stooges' shoes, much less step into them. This is also why the Farrely Bros. movie Stooges will flop and why it was a miracle that most of actors portraying Stooges in the ABC biopic (now shown on AMC these days) did a halfway decent job portraying them.

[AKStoogeFan]

I had not seen this thread before you bumped it up.  I agree that there can not possibly be a new team of Stooges today.  I'm not sure I agree with you that there could have been before.  I just cannot see the Stooges without Moe & Larry. 

What I would really like to comment on the shrinking number of Stooge fans.  When I was a kid and they were on TBS, as well as PBS on Saturday nights (along with Laurel & Hardy, Hope & Crosby, and other great comedies), every kid loved the Stooges.  Now, it's hard to find a kid who really knows who the Stooges are.  It's hard to even find people my age who are Stooge fans.  I'm taking care of that in my house though.  I have 4 kids and, except for the baby, they all know and like to watch the Stooges.  I'm putting all the shorts on DVD, and my 12 year old is asking if he can have the videos when I'm done.  My 4 year old daughter and 3 year old son, who won't sit and watch anything but NickToons or Cartoon Network, will sit and watch the Stooges with me (though sometimes they prefer the 'New 3 Stooges').  That will be the only way for the legacy to continue.  Teach your children.  Though hopefully Sony handles the upcoming DVD sets properly and starts a revival of Stooge popularity.

[FineBari3]

First off, I am new here and I have to say I love this website.  I am in the Army and I am stationed in South Korea.   "This is my sister Crummett.  And this, is my mother." 

That line is one of my favs. I also, for some strange reason, enjoy Moe's line "Those are MY cigarettes!" from that same scene. I just think its funny because they come out dressed as women right after that!

[Baggie]

 Yeh that is one of my favourite Stooges scenes ever. I always wanted Pop Goes The Easel to win MST but it never did. I love this new icon so I will use it for no reason... 

[kinderscenen]

I just thought of something--despite my earlier post, I don't think I've really realized that the Stooge fan base is dwindling.  There's usually a reference in either movies, sitcoms, or books, and there isn't a week that goes by that I don't hear at least one reference of the Stooges.  However, I also hear references to other pop icons that I have no idea who they are, simply because either I'm far too young (not likely), or far too old (very likely).  Chances are some of the youngsters who enjoyed "Friends" may not have known the significance of those figurines in Chandler and Joey's apartment.

The question of why you can't have another Stooges team was answered by none other than Moe and the Columbia executives.  Instead of re-inventing the wheel for a while (in 1956, I'm sure the writing was on the wall about the shorts department) and letting Moe, Larry and Joe do something totally off the wall, playing 2 rough-housing characters who have this weird sissy tagging along, they tried to make everyone who followed Shemp into a Curly-clone.  While I know that the Joe years aren't among the favorites of many (or any), there were times where they could've gone in a different direction and it would've worked, for a while.  "Quiz Whizz" and "Flying Saucer Daffy" were two examples that I just found terribly funny.  Why couldn't that "formula" have been used for the rest of the films?

As far as the Curly-Joe years, I think that it would've been better to let the guy that Larry thought funny be the 3rd Stooge. I'm sure that Larry wouldn't have suggested DeRita if he'd seen what he became--he'd probably have left Las Vegas screaming and pulling his hair out.

Ah, 50 year old hindsight's 20/20.