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When did Curly begin to slip?
Stooge:
--- Quote from: Watts Dee Matter on January 10, 2005, 10:27:29 AM ---Actually I can't tell in any of the shorts really if he was starting to slip, of course they all where older by the mid 40s anyway, I think Curly acted as he always did.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: Watts Dee Matter on January 10, 2005, 10:27:29 AM ---As for Curly starting to slip, I personally don't think it is visible on any short he was in.
--- End quote ---
Watch AN ACHE IN EVERY STAKE and THREE LOAN WOLVES back to back and try to tell me there's no difference between Curly's performances in those shorts.
kinderscenen:
I noticed "slippage" mostly with Curly (of course--due to medical reasons); some with Shemp (again, medical reasons--just not as severe as Curly's), but for Moe and Larry, not as much. However, when I compare "The Outlaws IS Coming!" to "Kook's Tour", there are noticeable differences, but I'm not certain if these are due to merely age, or a combination of age/health/and type of film. Larry slurs some words in "Kook's Tour", but it seemed like that happened in earlier (way earlier) films as well.
--- Quote from: Stooge on January 10, 2005, 11:36:44 AM ---Watch AN ACHE IN EVERY STAKE and THREE LOAN WOLVES back to back and try to tell me there's no difference between Curly's performances in those shorts.
--- End quote ---
That brings up an interesting point--Ed Bernds (among others) stated that in "Three Little Pirates" Curly was almost (or was, I can't remember the exact quote) back to his normal self. Uh...what were they drinking? To compare the "Maja" routine of 1946 to the vastly superior 1941 version is evidence that Curly wasn't the same. I understand the need to keep the money train going, but how delusional could a group of people be?
Sunday
Pilsner Panther:
As someone with some health care background, I can say that it's rarely ever the case that a chronically ill person goes straight downhill. Sometimes, they rally themselves (for whatever reason, maybe sheer willpower) and have one or more periods of relatively good health again.
"Micro-Phonies" and "Idiots Deluxe" were made during Curly's physical decline, but he seems like his old self and he turns in two very funny performances. However, in "If A Body Meets A Body" (made the same year, 1945), his timing is off and his speech seems halting. I find that short hard to watch because it always makes me feel sorry for the poor guy— he's obviously trying hard, but he's just not making it.
It's a complicated subject, and a lot less was known in the 1940's about strokes and other neurological problems than we know now... which still isn't much, considering the complexity of the human organism. As an M.D. friend of mine once said, "It's a wonder that it works at all!"
[twitch]
kinderscenen:
Ah, yes--I'm using 21st century knowledge to talk about a 1940's problem. Until (I suppose) the major strokes, it may have been passed off as "Curly partying too much". Interestingly enough, I wonder how much was known 25 years later when Larry had his strokes. At least according to "Stroke of Luck", he had no desire to rush back, or even continue performing. Of course, being 67 rather than 42 may have had something to do with it, and it seems that he had a more serious "beginning" stroke than Curly.
This whole subject fascinates me because of the differences of thought between then and now. Nowadays, I don't think a performer would have a stroke, get "patched up", and continue to perform. Then, because of the lack of knowledge, it was hoped that some therapy, rest, and a strict diet would be a "cure".
I have to agree--it doesn't seem like we know that much more today than we did 60 years ago.
Senorita Rita:
--- Quote from: kinderscenen on January 12, 2005, 07:43:09 PM --- Until (I suppose) the major strokes, it may have been passed off as "Curly partying too much".
--- End quote ---
As tired as I've become of seeing this (Curly's "decline") topic discussed, I have to agree that it is still very intriguing. I cannot understand what the hell anyone working with the Stooges during that time was thinking. Really, the resoning there was just illogical. The man looked like hot death after 1945...and sounded terrible...and couldn't remember 2 lines in a row...an no one though there was a problem? He was even in the hospital for several weeks, so there's no excuse as to why they wouldn't have known that he had major health issues.
I also have to wonder how much of this "misinterpretation" of Curly's condition by those around him at the time has to do with the way the actor is portrayed today. From what I've read, some associates found him to be a little "off"(socially, mentally, and emotionally.) But I have the feeling that these sentiments refer to a specific time, and not to those who knew him in earlier years. If they were referring to his condition during his illness, that would make perfect sense. The fact that he was also known for being occaisionally introverted only further bolsters the idea that maybe there was something "wrong" with him.( And because of that, he was somehow lead down some self-destructive path ending with his demise.) Now, there may be some truth to that. Who knows? But personally, I find the fact that this great comic actor's life story is almost always reduced to some sad man-child/typical out-of-control-star/tears-of-a-clown BS to be an insult to his memory. None of us will ever know how much of his decline was self-induced, and how much of it was out of his hands. Despite what some authors and historians want us to believe, I do not think that the Stooges were the same, or even similar (at least not on a conscious level) to the actors who created them. Nor do I believe that Jerry Howard was some perpetually sad, pathetic man who got famous by dumb luck and drank himself to death. The guy was a brilliant comic, and all truly great comedians have to be headstrong, smart and quick-witted. He doesn't get enough credit for creating a believable charachter. Instead, the actor and the charachter have somehow become one in the same. A totally unfair dismissal of talent, IMO.
-end of rant-
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