Topic: Do You Think the Stooges Would Have Beeen As Successful Without Curly?

[locoboymakesgood]

Let's pretend for a second that Shemp never left the act.. never had a solo career.. and Curly never come on board as the third Stooge. It's just Moe, Larry, and Shemp until his untimely death in the 50s. Would the Boys have been as successful? I know it's hard to argue something like this, but I'm just curious as to your opinion. Would Shemp have "worked" well in the Curly-era shorts? I mean can we imagine him going nuts to Pop Goes the Weasel?

I've always been more of a Shemp-man moreso than Curly. I was exposed to more Shemp shorts when I wasn't even able to talk or walk, and as a result I've always had a different kind of fondness for the Shemp-era than Curly (the network that used to air them syndicated in the 1980s, WNYB, tended to air [in an hour] Curly-Shemp-Shemp and Shemp-Shemp-Joe instead of just all 3 shorts being Curly). Not to say I don't love all 190 shorts, but Shemp has something that's different. His brand of comedy is obviously not Curly's, but he's just hysterical. With that in mind, it's just really hard for me to think that the Boys would have had as much success.. I mean let's face it, when you ask any "general" Stooges fan (save for us on the Board, and those not obsessed), the consesus is everybody's favorite is Curly. He appeals to almost everyone, and damn it if it's not hard to love him. Even "back then" I'm sure Curly was everyone's favorite Stooge to impersonate.

What would the Stooges era shorts have been like with "Meep meep meep" instead of "Nyuk nyuk nyuk"? What's your opinion?

[archiezappa]

I believe that they would have been just as successful.  When they did the movie "Soup To Nuts," they were actually offered a contract by Fox for them without Healy.  Of course, Healy ruined that for them.  But if they had stuck it out, they would have still gotten the deal with Columbia.  They would still be known as they are today.  An interesting twist would be that if Curly had not joined the team, he may have went into show business as a single performer.  He wouldn't have been in poor health or anything and probably would have lived longer.  In fact, imagine if Shemp still died in 1955 and Curly taking his place at that point.  That would be interesting.

[porcupinefan87]

That's an interesting question. Of course, we'll never know. Him being there was just how history played out.

I personally feel though, that they would have made it...they just would be known in a different way (if that makes sense). As someone pointed out, even with Shemp in their early film days...they were certainly getting notices. Hearly ruined it for them, in terms of film deals and such. I think in terms of respect and finances, they'd probably have been better off without Columbia. Yet, in terms of consistency and long-term career things, Columbia proved to be alright. I remember reading that Fine was offered a deal (for them all) at what was it...Universal Pictures? Moe was offered the Columbia deal. Moe signed the contract first so they went with that. But I digress....

I've always thought that Curly, while good FOR the Stooges, didn't entirely have SOLO performer potential. He was more needed as the third bananna in a group of other comics. But then, that's not really fair to say, but history shows that Shemp did have a decent solo career (at least for a bit, I'll admit I don't know all that much about his solo films) and so maybe he had more versitility. So really, it's hard to say. I mean Curly did well on his own in Vaudeville and all that. But my general feeling has always been that Curly without the Stooges would have been worse off than the Stooges without Curly...if you catch my drift? But really that shows that there's no separating them. Could one even imagine the Three Stooges WITHOUT Curly? Soitenly not!!!! He's just engrained there...whether we admit it or not haha. He sort of epitomizes them.

[archiezappa]

I agree.   When people think Three Stooges, the first thing is Moe, Larry and Curly.   I don't know anyone who puts Shemp before Curly.   It usually Moe, Larry, Curly, Shemp.  You know.  Curly was just a natural like that.   He was so popular and that's no surprise.   One only needs to watch a couple of the best Stooge shorts to know why.   But that doesn't mean Shemp isn't funny.   He's just not Curly.  He didn't try to be Curly.  But we shouldn't hold that against him.  Don't get me wrong, because I like all 6 of the Three Stooges:  Moe, Larry, Curly, Shemp, Joe and Curly-Joe.   Great comedy team, no matter what!

[Hammond Eggar]

I pretty much agree with the comments posted so far.  While Shemp contributed something very different to the act, he was still quite good and very funny.  I think one of the reasons Curly gets more attention, besides the obvious reason of his talent, is that more shorts feature him as the third Stooge.  Those shorts get rotated on TV more, so viewers tend to have a greater familiarity with them.  Moe, Larry and Curly each had a very distinctive and unique look.  When Moe suggested Shemp as Curly's replacement in 1947, Columbia balked at the idea and was against it at first.  The thought was that Shemp looked too much like Moe.  With the exception of Shemp, Curly was really the template for all future third Stooges.  Both of the Joes were bald, or nearly-bald, and both were overweight.  Shemp, I believe, was considered as a replacement due to his being Moe's brother, and having prior envolvement with the act.  Plus, he was extremely talented and funny.

All that aside, I still believe that had Shemp stayed in the act in the early-1930s, the act would probably still have found success.  The public's perception and/or image of the Stooges would be different, but their influence and popularity would, for the most part, still be intact. 

[busybuddy]

I don't think the Stooges would have gotten as far without Curly. I think they would have gotten as far as the first few Columbia shorts, but not all the way to 1955. In the Ted, Moe, Larry, and Curly shorts/features and Woman Haters, Curly is not the Curly we see by the time we get to Three Little Beers. He's a little more laid-back, and not all that different from Moe and Larry. But when he really started to develop more he became his own different character. He's way more childlike. Can you imagine 1934 Curly falling on the floor and acting like a seal like he did ten years later? I think it's the 1936-46 Curly that sold them. He was also Harry Cohn's favorite which may have helped as well.

Shemp on the other hand (as funny as he was) may not have had the kind of spark that Curly had. Plus, from an image Stand-point, he didn't look quite as good with Moe and Larry to make them stand out from other comedians. If there was no Curly, can you imagine buying a Moe, Larry, and Shemp cookie jar? (just an example of merchandise)

If there was no Curly, there would be a lot more characters like Kramer, and a lot less characters like Peter Griffin in today's era.

[JazzBill]

Curly is not the Curly we see by the time we get to Three Little Beers. He's a little more laid-back, and not all that different from Moe and Larry. But when he really started to develop more he became his own different character.

He wasn't laid back, he was sick.

[porcupinefan87]

Actually in "Three Little Beers" they are all hyper and spry. I think what you may mean is "Three Little Pirates".

Curly was hyper and more over the top than Shemp, but that does not make him a more talented comic. He's funny, but he can also be very predictable. Not taking anything away from him, I'm just making an observation.

[JazzBill]

He might be thinking of " Beer Barrel Polecats ." He was pretty ill in the parts that weren't lifted from " So Long Mr. Chumps, " and " In The Sweet Pie and Pie ".  I think " Gents Without Cents " (1944 ) is when I noticed something didn't seem right.

[busybuddy]

I meant Three Little Beers. I meant that this short was the one of the first shorts in which he was very energetic and over the top (in a good way.) Up to this point, there wasn't an entire short where he was as energetic and outrageous, and he wouldn't go back to being a little more subdude until he got sick.

[archiezappa]

With this new DVD set coming out, we'll all be able to really take a good look at how Curly developed his character.  It's gonna be very cool!

You know, it's about time that one of the greatest comedians of all time get his ultimate tribute.  It seems that Curly never got the tribute he deserves.  I think these new DVD sets will be just that.  The ultimate tribute to Curly, Larry and Moe.  I just hope they don't stop there.  A tribute to Shemp, Joe and Curly-Joe is in order, too.

The greatest comedy team of all time deserves the ultimate DVD collection.  It just took the people in charge too many years to realize this.

[moe-jo]

Even with Shemp's vaudeville experience, he hated confrontation.  Curly was the one who was physically gifted and brought the slapping together.  They would never been the Stooges without Curly.


P.S.  No offense, Shemp!  You're still cute!   

[porcupinefan87]

They were ALL physically gifted though.  And, for Shemp's defense, I think anyone who has seen "Brideless Groom" knows the kind of punishment good Ole' Shemp could take.  I personally do not see Curly and Shemp as better or worse...just different.

Maybe it's because I'm a Larry fan haha!

I think it's to EVERYONE's credit that the chemistry was always there regardless of who - Curly or Shemp - was in the third stooge position.

[metaldams]

My opinions in a nutshell;

Artistically:  Shemp would've made some classic shorts with the boys in the 30's and early 40's, no doubt.  If they wound up doing features, it would've been mixed affairs due to the formula of romantic couples and musical numbers at the time.

Commercially for their time:  I'm sure they would've had a nice little run IF they signed to Columbia or RKO and did shorts.  Why not, shorts were a staple at the time and there would've been plenty of room for them.

Known today:  Sorry guys, forget about it.  As locoboy pretty much stated in his original post, the average, casual Stooge fan off the street is into Curly.  Shemp fans mostly show up on Internet message boards and Stooge conventions.  I love Shemp myself, but i also have to be honest about other people's perceptions.

Critically:  Probably more liked by classic comedy scholars than they are today due to their rare status.  Sadly, the boys never get studied in colleges today the way the silent clowns, Fields, the Marx Brothers, and Laurel and Hardy do.  If the Stooges with only Shemp were more a cult act the way Wheeler and Woolsey are today, they'd be cooler to name drop because they'd be underappreciated.

[Double Deal Decker]

I think they would have been just as successful if Shemp had remained a stooge until his death. If he had never left the act allowing Curly to join, there would have been nothing to "compare" him to when he rejoined Moe and Larry in 1947.