Topic: Suggestions

[Watts Dee Matter]

Hey what about Aerosmith...especially their later stuff

[shemps#1]

Hell yes on Aerosmith. Why do most Boston-area rock bands suck?

[Bruckman]

Put me down for a "Hell yeah" on Fogelberg as well.

Nix on Deep Purple. Also Zeppelin.

[Genius In the Lamp]

How about devoting some bandwidth to the early days of MTS?  I'm thinking of performers like Guy Mitchell (a vapid pretty boy who predates even Bobby Sherman) and the Crew Cuts (the masters of really bad covers of great doo-wop and R&B).  They call James Brown the Godfather of Soul (and his music definitely does not suck); how about the Godfather of Music That Sucks - you guessed it, Pat Boone!

And how much alum will you need to stick up your sphincter before you consider the case of one Mr. Kenneth Gorelick?

[antlyon]

I'm for including    Boston and   The Osmond Brothers/Donny and Marie

[shemps#1]

Genius: That is a very interesting idea you have, but my personal knowledge of acts from that era is practically non-existant. Perhaps Pilsner would be able to help me out on a project like that.

ant: Boston has been in the queque for as long as MTS has been running; as the pioneers of the Corporate Rock sound how couldn't they be? After doing Journey, Foreigner, Styx, etc. I had burned myself out on Corporate Rock and put Boston on the backburner. The Osmonds are also definate MTS material.

[Senorita Rita]

I already made my suggestions on the old board, but I'll mention them again: Clear Channel  and Elvis.

[shemps#1]

Elvis as whole is a definate "no way". I could focus on different aspects of Elvis' career, much like I did with the Paul McCartney A.B. induction.

Clear Channel is an interesting idea, especially after the whole Howard Stern fiasco.

[Pilsner Panther]

Genius: That is a very interesting idea you have, but my personal knowledge of acts from that era is practically non-existant. Perhaps Pilsner would be able to help me out on a project like that.

[...]

Oh yeah, Jim, you could probably get several MTS entries out of all those hyped-up, payola-fueled, white-bread "rockers" that were around between Elvis's induction into the Army and the arrival of the Beatles.

Some names that come to mind (besides Pat Boone): Ricky (later Rick) Nelson, Dion, Frankie Valli, Frankie Avalon (still performing— he'll be here in S.F. later this month starring in "Grease," which deserves an MTS "tribute" of its own), Bobby Darin (subject of a new biopic... why?), and you could always throw in some lounge singers like Vic Damone, Perry Como, Andy Williams, Robert Goulet, and Tony Bennett...

But the lounge singers might be a separate category: suckiness beyond suckiness.

 

Kudos on inducting the Captain and Toenail (as my friends and I always referred to them back in the day), they were long overdue. And you're right, they were never cool, at least not to the hip kids at my junior high... we were all listening to Frank Zappa, Captain Beefheart, electric Miles Davis, and Led Zep!

Come to think of it, there's a musical combination that really would have clicked: "Captain Beefheart and Tennille." Unfortunately, though, we'll never get to hear her rendition of "Lick My Decals Off, Baby." What a missed opportunity!

As for Kenny G., he's definitely an MTS contender, and you can take that from someone who's heard most of the real modern jazz saxophonists perform live.

Rahsaan Roland Kirk or Joe Lovano or Steve Lacy, he ain't...

 


 

[metaldams]

HELL YEAH to inducting Franki Valli and The Four Seasons being inducted.  I HATE that shit, and with the minor exceptions of some early Motown and The Beach Boys (and even they didn't start getting real good until the mid-60's), the era post-army Elvis and pre-Beatles pretty much bites the shriveled pickel.

Jim, obviously, this is your section, so do what you want, but one thing I don't agree with is not allowing somebody in if they don't have enough "hits."  The reason why I say this is because hits are not the only way to measure am artist's success.  Personally, I hate Phish and all that jam band stuff, and even though they may not be lighting up the Billboard charts, what they do have is a huge following which generates lots of concert ticket sales.  Other shit artists may not have had hits, but were influential nonetheless.  Just my two cents, take it or leave it.

Also, even though I have great affection for them, especially their 70's stuff, I'd be interested in seeing how you'd handle a Judas Priest induction.

[sickdrjoe]

Unfortunately for me, Debbie's musical taste ran to things like Three Dog Night, Jackson Browne, Elton John, and the Doobie Brothers, so she'd always put on the stations that played that stuff— along with "Smoke On The Water," umpteen million times.

Every now and then, she'd let me tune to the one jazz station in the area (KJAZ, which folded a long time ago), but the lyrics to "Smoke On the Water," "Joy To The World," "Rocket Man," and "China Grove" are forever imprinted in some remote, reptilian part of my brain. If she hadn't been such a hot little California blonde cheerleader-type babe, I'd never have forgiven her!

...and I miss the days when AM radio actually played songs like that! Not only were they actual songs, but the acerage AM station would give you a great mix: you might get "Roundabout" (prog-rock), "Treat Her Like A Lady" (soul/r&b), "Alone Again Naturally" (pop-balladry), "Do It Again" (jazzy pop) AND a hard-rock tune like "Brown Sugar", all in a row, and all before the first commercial break.

There's nothing like that now. It's all compartmentalized niche-marketing (and satellite radio is gonna be more of the same - every style will be herded into its own Warsaw ghetto, and the atmization of American culture into a thousand splinters will grind on and on.)

When I was a kid, it's true that the line of demarcation was drawn between boy stuff (metal, prog, songs with really long solos) and girl stuf (pop, soul, ballads, bubblegum) but luckily, we were all exposed to everything pretty much, thus we have a point of reference that either justifies our original judgments or serves as a launching point to change your mind from. Sure, Elton John nauseates me today...but nobody put out better-crafted and more-memorable pop-rock than he did in his 70s prime. Same goes for the 'old' Doobies...maybe it's me, but they sound pretty good to me these days.

[shemps#1]

Elton will never be inducted, his early stuff is great. I could do an "Elton John after the '70's" induction, but nahhh.

[Pilsner Panther]

Unfortunately for me, Debbie's musical taste ran to things like Three Dog Night, Jackson Browne, Elton John, and the Doobie Brothers, so she'd always put on the stations that played that stuff— along with "Smoke On The Water," umpteen million times.

...and I miss the days when AM radio actually played songs like that! Not only were they actual songs, but the acerage AM station would give you a great mix: you might get "Roundabout" (prog-rock), "Treat Her Like A Lady" (soul/r&b), "Alone Again Naturally" (pop-balladry), "Do It Again" (jazzy pop) AND a hard-rock tune like "Brown Sugar", all in a row, and all before the first commercial break.

There's nothing like that now. It's all compartmentalized niche-marketing (and satellite radio is gonna be more of the same - every style will be herded into its own Warsaw ghetto, and the atmization of American culture into a thousand splinters will grind on and on.)

When I was a kid, it's true that the line of demarcation was drawn between boy stuff (metal, prog, songs with really long solos) and girl stuf (pop, soul, ballads, bubblegum) but luckily, we were all exposed to everything pretty much, thus we have a point of reference that either justifies our original judgments or serves as a launching point to change your mind from. Sure, Elton John nauseates me today...but nobody put out better-crafted and more-memorable pop-rock than he did in his 70s prime. Same goes for the 'old' Doobies...maybe it's me, but they sound pretty good to me these days.

We definitely part company here taste-wise, sdj. I never liked any of that pop-rock (or bubblegum) stuff, even when it first came out; rock that has some testosterone quotient is all right by me, but I don't put the Doobies (or similar soft-rock bands like the Eagles) in that category.

Of course, my musical taste is well-known to anyone who's followed Pilsner's Picks, and even when I was 12, 13, 14 years old I was into the old-timey stuff. Back then, I used to wander around the thrift shops of the five N.Y.C. boroughs (thanks to the subway), hunting for 78's, and that's how I got started collecting music.

Never mind that 70's-80's pop sludge— give me a good, hot washboard band or a low-down Harlem stride piano solo any day of the week! Come to think of it, maybe I ought to disqualify myself from commenting on any popular music from after 1950 or so... or at least after 1963, the year I was born.

What's the difference? Musicianship, for one thing; take as an example "Hello, Lola" in the current Picks lineup. That's just a casual pickup jam session— the Mound City Blue Blowers hardly ever had the same members from one recording date to the next— but everyone involved plays their ass off!

 

By the time I was growing up, you were more likely to hear lame bands with guitarists who never learned more than four or five sets of chord changes, drummers who could only play in 4/4 time and didn't know a press roll from a cinnamon roll, and "singers" like Neil Young who basically never knew what key they were in (and didn't care, either).

Jeez, I didn't mean to get up on my soapbox here, but I sure did!

 

[shemps#1]

I should charge you for all of those Pilsner's Pick's plugs.

[Pilsner Panther]

I should charge you for all of those Pilsner's Pick's plugs.

But I thought we were non-commercial, like National Public Radio (only a hell of a lot more entertaining!).

 

[metaldams]

I don't know Pilsner.  To me, music's never been about how many chords one can play or how many notes one can cram into a 12 bar solo, or what time signature the band is in.  Music is about what a song can do for me emotionally.  Once I can enjoy a piece of music on an emotional level, then I try to pick it apart intellectually.  Sometimes I find the music that's moving me is pure simplicity, and I then appreciate it for it's simplicity.  Other times, I find little nuances that make each listening experience a new one, and yes, this happens to me a lot with rock music. 

With jazz, I can understand the appeal intellectually.  These are superior musicians who bust their asses for years to get to the level they are at skill wise.  Yet on an emotional level, jazz, for the most part (I hope to find exceptions one of these days), does nothing for me.  I think this is because I prefer structured music that focuses on songwriting as opposed to improvised music that focuses on instrumentalists (that's also why I don't like the "jam band" stuff like The Grateful Dead and Phish).  Don't get me wrong, I love instrumental virtusosity, but within the confines of a well written song.  Even with high brow forms of music, I prefer classical to jazz, just because of the superior compositional element involved.

When you talk about rock bands who can only play four or five chords, the first thing I have to say is that is not the case for a lot of rock bands, especially the more progressive minded ones.  However, with the rock bands that do function in the four of five chord range, I think there is a lot to be said for musicians who can take what little they have and make something memorable out of it, or in my case, emotionally excite me.  As far as I'm concerned, there is no greater feeling in the world than a simple open-E power chord blasting through my speakers.

[Senorita Rita]

I think that any and all musical artists/groups/acts are fair game. Even the best musicians have made *something* that was crap, whether it was universally reviled, or just hated by one person.

Another suggestion- how about profiling "songs that suck," disecting individual tunes and not necessarily the entire body of work of an artist.

[Pilsner Panther]

Interesting comments, Doug, seeing as you're probably the most music-minded person on this board besides Jim and myself.

The best music is about both emotion and virtuosity, and yes, I'm hooked on the latter. Sometimes, the virtuosity can be overwhelming to people who aren't used to it, as with the astonishing jazz pianist Art Tatum (I'll get to him in a future Picks installment). He never seemed to know how to hold back on his dazzling technique, and he always barnstormed the keyboard, sounding like two or even three pianists playing at once. Some listeners— even some jazz fans— can't take this, and their objection to Tatum's style is, indeed, that he's more technical than emotional. I don't happen to agree with that, but it's a legitimate complaint.

On the other hand, there are "primitive" musicians, especially blues players and singers, who can really move me. Jimmy Yancey was at the opposite end of the technical scale from Tatum; he could only play in a couple of keys, but his earthy, barrelhouse piano style really gets me where I live. Same with the guitarist-singer Blind Blake; having been self-taught (and of course unable to read music), he developed a guitar style like no one else's, full of percussive effects and strange modulations.

Well, I guess these comments mean that an early blues segment is coming up soon... stay tuned.

 

[shemps#1]

Doug, I almost overlooked your comment on the "hits" rule. For the most part that rule is in place to keep one-hit wonders and the like out from being inducted. I feel that if I inducted someone like Iron Butterfly it would be too short and uninteresting. There are always exceptions to the rule (2 Live Crew ), so don't count out a Phish induction, or even a Grateful Dead induction.

[K.O. Stradavarius]

Rap - especially that piece of garbage that ruined "Crazy Train."

Remember - you can't spell CRAP without RAP.

[Curly Q. Link]

I think you mis-read the title of this forum. Its called music that sucks. 

 

[shemps#1]

Hey guys,

It's great to see some intelligent newbies on the board and I hope that the two of you decide to post more often.

As for rap music as a whole, I cannot induct it blankly because there is some (and I am stressing that word it its fullest) rap music that doesn't suck. There will be alot of rap inductions (Puff Daddy/P. Diddy, whatever he calls himself for one) in the future however.

[Waldo Twitchell]

Just curious to see what kind of responses are elicted by suggesting Steely Dan. It would be interesting to see the range of reactions - either revered or loathing.

I grew up hearing their hits on the radio and didn't care much one way or the other until I picked up a used copy of the double-CD 'The Story of Steely Dan' on a whim. Now I'm becoming hooked, or maybe just brainwashed. 

[Curleys_Girl_Suze]

Add these:

Styx

Menudo

Jet (...yoooou go it allll over himmmm you must hve been heaaven seeent...BLECH)

Lisa Lisa and Cult Jam

Creed -- every song sounds alike...

Stacey "somebody feed me" Q

Any "musical artist" with an initial in their name

Starland Vocal Band

J-Lo (I didn't read thru this thread, but if she's not nominated, she is now...hehehe)

The Osmonds

The Partridge Family

Pink Lady -- THREE minutes of fame in the Seventies...add "JEFF" and they get three and a half. I'f you've never heard of Pink Lady, google them if you dare.

Rupert Holmes

The Bangles

Warrant

Mary J. Blige

The Ramones

Mariah Carey - If I hear One Sweet Day at another wake, I'll scream until they take me away. She sounds like a fire engine in heat.

Yoko Ono

Firefall

Frankie Goes To Hollywood

[shemps#1]

Steely Dan: Nuh-uh. At first I hated Steely Dan, but in time they grew on me.

Styx: Already inducted (MTS #12).

Menudo: A possibility

Jet: One-hit Wonder

Lisa Lisa and Cult Jam: One-hit Wonder

Creed: In the queque

Stacey Q: One-hit Wonder

Starland Vocal Band: One-hit Wonder

J-Lo: A possibility

The Osmonds: In the queque

Partridge Family: A possibility, as a special induction

Pink Lady: One-hit Wonder

Rupert Holmes: One-hit Wonder

The Bangles: A possibility, if I could flesh it out

Warrant: One-hit Wonder

Mary J. Blige: A possibility

The Ramones: A possibility (intriguing)

Yoko Ono: The Ed Wood of Rock: In the queque as a special induction (she did not have a hit)

Firefall: One-hit Wonder

Frankie Goes To Hollywood: One-hit Wonder

I cannot do one-hit wonders because the inductions would be too short.