Topic: How did Moe & Larry feel about Joe?

[Desmond Of The Outer Sanctorum]

Everyone knows that us Stooge fans have differing opinions about Joe Besser as a Stooge.  (For example, I belong to the "The budgets & scripts were the problem, not Joe himself" camp.)  But has anyone heard anything about how Moe and Larry felt about Joe?

Here are the few things I've heard, which aren't much:
- It seems Moe's first choice to replace Shemp was Joe DeRita, who was unavailable at the time.  (This is the story Moe himself tells on his 1973 Mike Douglas Show appearance.)  That doesn't really say anything about his opinion of Besser, though.
- Besser tells of not wanting to be hit at the beginning, and of Larry generously offering to take Joe's hits for him.  (Apparently neither of them realized that this would make Joe look bad to the fans!)
- After his stroke, Larry kept pictures of the Stooges at his place in the nursing home -- including Besser.
- The official story is that, after Columbia dumped the Stooges, Moe & Larry invited Joe to tour with him, but he declined due to his wife's illness.  However, it's rumored that the "real" story is that everyone just felt Joe should leave at that time, and the "illness" thing was a cover up.  I'm not sure which story I believe here.

Doesn't shed a whole lot of light, especially where Moe is concerned.  Can anyone shed more light on this?

[stooged and confused]

Hi Desmond:

From what I've heard, Joe was really just a business partner. Not much more than that. He was contracted at Columbia and was more or less placed with Moe and Larry due to that fact, along with his experience as a comedian.

When I interviewed Larry's brother Morris in early 1980, he stressed how Larry's part expanded to fill the gap of not having Curly or Shemp there to take the brunt of the slapstick. Joan Howard Maurer confirmed this as well when we interviewed her during the same time span.

Joe himself said to us that he enjoyed his association with Moe and Larry but was not a fan of the mayhem they dished out and didn't want to take the "abuse." Larry agreed to take his share.

[Desmond Of The Outer Sanctorum]

From what I've heard, Joe was really just a business partner. Not much more than that. He was contracted at Columbia and was more or less placed with Moe and Larry due to that fact, along with his experience as a comedian.

Meaning they didn't have much of an opinion about his performance one way or the other??

[stooged and confused]

It would appear that for Larry to beef up his role, he and, most likely Moe felt he just wasn't as strong of a third Stooge. Since they are no longer here to ask, based on what I've read in the Michael Fleming book (among others), he was contractually available and Columbia more than likely put the deal together quickly to hammer out the series that they knew the market for was evaporating fast.

[porcupinefan87]

That is the ONE good thing about the Besser shorts, as I said in my video blog as well, they prove that Larry Fine could step up and do more  or supply whatever was lacking when needed, you know? Whether it was being more goofy, taking more slaps, etc...he does a great job in the Besser-era shorts as does Moe. Actually, really I feel you  get to see a lot more Moe/Larry duo action in those shorts...and you see how well they work together, and how it's because of them that things lasted as long as they did. You see that they're a strong pair.

Besser just seemed more of the outsider who treated it like a 9-5 job and all that. Supposedly he had a separate contract, etc. It seems he just thought of it as a "favor" to them to help them run-out their contract and such. I doubt that Moe and Larry disliked him, though they probably realized that he was not a "stooge", you know? They were professionals though.

[kinderscenen]

I'm willing to bet that Moe and Larry had an inkling that the jig was up, as it were, for short subjects, seeing as they were the only ones left in the department.  Saying that, I'm not sure what they could've expected from Joe Besser, since they already knew of his style way before he was asked to join, and let's face it, to paraphrase Desmond, because of budgets, etc., Joe was IT. 

I tend to believe his story about not wanting to tour with the Stooges because of his wife's illness--even though he did appear in Say One For Me, it was filmed in LA, so it wouldn't have been much of a problem to get home at a pretty regular time, rather than touring for weeks or months on end.

As for Joe DeRita, we have 2 different stories, but since they're pretty much the same, I don't pay much attention to who's "right."  Larry saw Joe at Minky's Follies, then told Moe that he'd be a great addition; Moe's version is that he asked Joe after Curly's stroke (although that's interesting that he said that on the Mike Douglas Show)--it doesn't mean that he couldn't be wrong, but it differs from what Joe himself said.  If I recall, he stated that any rumors that he was asked to join before Shemp just added "romance" to the story.

Even though I've been one of the fans in the past to say that Curly-Joe (and Joe) weren't all that, reading more into the situation, I realize that it was pretty much inevitable that those 2 would be Stooges.  In 1956, they needed someone to fill in immediately, and who better than a fat guy who could (somewhat) match footage with the most popular fat guy?  In 1958, who better to fill in quickly than a burlesque comic who could fit in faster than anyone they previously auditioned?  As for feelings, Larry apparently felt rather strongly about Curly-Joe's contribution, threatening to quit if Moe didn't make Joe an equal partner. Moe apparently had no hard feelings, as he granted permission for DeRita (along with Mousie Garner and Frank Mitchell) to use the Stooge name for their combination.  I'm not sure if this was sooner (I'm assuming it was, since the Howard/Sitka/DeRita pairing was mere months before Moe's death), but you wouldn't give permission for someone to use the name (for free!) if you didn't at least have a bit of feeling for them.

Interesting, though--did DeRita, etc., just ask Moe?  Why not Larry (if this was before his massive strokes)?

Damn, I think I asked more questions than I answered! 

[archiezappa]

Here's the main reason I like the Besser-era shorts:  Larry.  Larry really proved what he could do when his role was expanded.  We first saw this in the four shorts that were made after Shemp's death and before Joe's entrance.  Larry was very funny.  I understand that Moe and Larry wanted to try being the Two Stooges, but Columbia wouldn't have it.  Comedy comes in threes, anyway. 

It seems that all I hear about the Besser-era shorts is how people don't like Joe.  Well, I don't watch those episodes for Joe, I watch them for Moe and Larry!

[Desmond Of The Outer Sanctorum]

I originally started watching Besser shorts (and, actually, Stooge stuff in general) because I was curious about this short-timer Stooge member that people seemed to have such strong opinions about.

I haven't seen much DeRita stuff, but I've ended up having more respect for Joe than Curly-Joe.  Besser seemed to be trying harder than DeRita, and in the end showed more humility and respect for the Stooge legacy he'd become part of.