ISLIPP
Registered User
Posts: 205
(7/3/02 3:27)
Reply My S-A!
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Title: Sing IT- you might be able to!
I remember a Coca-Cola commercial from the early 1980's that might actualy have been brought back from the early '70's. It featured the song, "I'd Like to Teach the World to Sing (In Perfect Harmony)." Neither the song, nor the commercial meant anywhere near as much to me as the product they were advertising, but the tune was catchy enough that I found myelf humming it from time to time ever since. In my formal singing lessons last year, I was reintroduced to the song. I realized that it now had some personal meaning to me.
From my early childhood on, I gradually learned more and more about different styles and levels of singing (By "levels" I mean soprano, alto, tenor and bass). In addition to formal singing lessons, I'm in my 10th year of being in choirs, quartets, trios, duets and solos. I've spent a lot of my life dreaming, imagining, thinking about and planning music-related scenarios. I now feel that I have a good enough handle on the subject to be able to successfully help people who don't think they can sing.
There is one poster on these boards who said that he used to sing well before his voice changed. According to him, once he hit puberty, his voice was ruined. I believe that if he could sing then, he could sing now. Puberty does not destroy singing voices (I'm living proof), but it can drastically change hte level at which you can sing.
Young, pre-pubescent boys who aren't in famous choirs are often catagorized as tenors in their church's choir. Elementary schools choirs aren't divided into sections- every member sings melody.
Therefore, when this board member's voice changed, he was probably still either trying to sing tenor or the melodies that extend outside his vocal range. I would advise this person to find out what his vocal range is, then try singing some songs that were written in a key that corresponds with his range.
To find out what your range is, here's what to do: Sit down in front of a piano and press a middle key. Try to imitate the sound it makes. Then move your finger either way, whichever direction you're comfortable with, trying to imitate the sounds each key makes. The keys that you sound the best imitating represent your range.
When you have done this, tackle any song that you can think of at random. If you can't sing it well the first time, try starting one octave (eight notes) lower or higher than you did at first. This board member may actually have a good bass or tenor voice if he's no good at baritone (a level between bass and tenor). He may even have a good falsetto (the highest level of singing for men) voice without even realizing it! Of course, after many years of not singing, you can actually lose your ability to do so. Don't let that fact make you want to give up, because you never know what you can do until you try,
Here are some other things to consider:
Fortissimo (loud vocal volume)- For some people, singing and even talking loudly comes naturally and it makes their singing voices sound terrible. Try toningyour volume down before giving up on your singing voice altogether.
Too soon after waking- I don't know how this effects females, but male voices are often deeper and gravely after waking up. Give it a few hours, then try to sing again.
Illness- There are lots of diseases, disorders and symptoms of such that can have negative effects on your voice. Laryngitis is a commonly known one, but a bout with the flu or a cold can make the voice sound terrible and actually bring on laryngitis or symptoms of the disorder. Even a slight sore throat can throw your voice off. Throat cancer can also occur. Elton John had it, but overcame it and continued singing. His voice was a little lower than before, but just as good as ever. There are also types of allergies that can affect the voice. If you have any symptoms of illness or allergy, give yourself some time to recuperate
before you try to sing again.
Strain- If you do lots of screaming, yelling or throat clearing, you can strain the vocal cords and the larynx and wear them out. Again, a few hours of recuperation can do wonders for your singing voice. If your voice is strained, refrain from using it as much as possible until it sounds normal again.
Uncontrolled breathing- You may often run out of breath to soon and your singing may start to sound like you are straining to hit the notes. The proper method of breathing for singg is to breathe from the diaphragm. To do this, slowly suck in your belly while refraining from lifting your shoulders. It's natural to lift your shoulders when you breathe, but not good for diaphragm breathing. If you inhale enough oxygen before you sing each line of a song, your voice won't sound strained.
Low resonance- Resonance is the intensification and enrichment of a musical tone by supplementary vibration. It's a naturally occuring thing, which can't be directly controlled by the singer. But to allow for good resonance, simply relax your throat muscles. It will automatically open your throat to its widest possible diameter.
Climate/high altitudes- These things have been known to affect one's singing voice, but since I have little or no experience with these condiions, I'm unable to elaborate.
Tone deafness- Most people who are tone deaf don't even realize it. A specific note may be played, but they hear a totally different note and imitate what they hear. most if not all tone-deaf people are hopeless.
And finally...
High expectations- Lots of people try to imitate styles that they are unsuited or untrained for. Opera is a common example. It takes many years of pratice with specially qualified instructors to be able to sing opera, yet there are people who start out trying to sing in this style, notice how bad they are and say they can't sing. Most rock singers can't sing opera but they came to be successful anyway.
If I could actualy read music and play my intsruments well enough, I would consider this a calling and study to become a certified voice instructor, but if what I already know can help people and I don't care that I'm not making any money doing it, I'll be fine. I think there will be enough of a reward in seeing the happiness in those I've helped.
"I'd like to teach the world to sing
in perfect harmony.
I'd like to hold it in my arms
and keep it company.
I'd like to see the world for once
All standing hand in hand
And hear them echo through the hills
For peace throughout the land."
shempisnumberone
Registered User
Posts: 88
(7/3/02 7:45)
Reply
Re: My S-A!
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Gentlemen, get your red markers ready!
"They misunderestimated me."- President Dubya
shempisnumberone
Registered User
Posts: 89
(7/3/02 8:19)
Reply
Re: My S-A!
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Now for my critique:
I'll try to keep it short and and sweet since I just got off work and I'm tired. As far as sentences tructure is concerned, it is sub-par. There are WAY too many commas; commas where semi-colons should be, commas where nothing is needed, and commas in the wrong place.
Examples of bad sentence structure:
"In my formal singing lessons last year, I was reintroduced to the song. I realized that it now had some personal meaning to me."
These are two choppy sentences that can easily become one. The comma in the first sentence is unnecessary as well.
You could change it to:
"In my formal singing lessons last year I was reintroduced to the song, and realized that it now had some personal meaning to me."
A semi-colon might be better there, but like I said; I'm tired.
There are too many errors in sentence structure for me to go through them all at this time; someone else might do the honors.
"I've spent a lot of my life dreaming, imagining, thinking about and planning music-related scenarios."
This sentence could use an "and" before the word "thinking".
There are also spelling errors that are scattered throughout (singg), but not too many. Still, a teacher would mark you off for those; you should have proofread and edited accordingly.
As for the content of the essay, it is rather dull. I'm sure that most people would have tuned out after the third paragraph. Also, you come off as full of yourself.
That's about it for now, if I were a teacher grading this essay I'd give you an F in structure (not because it's you specifically, but because it really is bad) and somewhere in the range of C-/D+ in content.
Overall: F, it looks like a first draft thrown together at the last minute.
"They misunderestimated me."- President Dubya
Edited by: shempisnumberone at: 7/3/02 8:23:38 am
sickdrjoe
Registered User
Posts: 352
(7/3/02 8:33)
Reply
Re: My S-A!
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You mean after all these years of singing lessons you're just getting around to 25-year-old advertising jingles?
Well, shee-it and gnaborretni besides!
Parts of this read like they were lifted from the "So You Want To Sing" orientation pamphlet they hand out on the first day of choir tryouts at Chez Hagee. But who knows? The only problem,which I see Jamison walking right into, by the way (as Mike Holme will tell you, if there's two things liberals have been repeatedly observed doing, it's calling conservatives Nazis, of course, and grading on a curve) is that 'aww, shucks, the little fellow's really trying....let's give him a higher grade than I'd ever give this had it had NO name on it' kinda thing.
Which I gotta add I'm tempted to do myself. So let's NOT say "hey, look at Slipp - he's barely competent! Well, dog my cats!"...and instead judge him based on "he's 28, announced his dream is to be a writer, has claimed to have studied writing long enough to know most of the ins and outs of it by now, and has had a week to prepare this". Let's give him a C minus leaning towards a C.
I would say that he has succeeded best in communicating information. His bright shining moment here is his clear and helpful description of how one sings from the diaphragm. Now I must add that these explicitly illustrated tips seem to have been cribbed from another source, but let's give Eric The Dead the benefit of the doubt, and accept this as 100% original. There is some useful information here which has been adequately delivered to the reader.
As for style, there is none. This is written like a fifth-grade book report, with one eye firmly fixed on polishing Teacher's apple. I could see coming across something like this as a filler item in a small-town pennysaver, but that's about it.
His first two paragraphs are blather that could have been reduced to two effective sentences: "In addition to formal singing lessons, I'm in my 10th year of being in choirs, quartets, trios, duets and solos. I feel I have a good enough handle on the subject to be able to successfully help people who don't think they can sing." The essay is full of similar unnecessary padding. [Hey, I'm MR Unnecessary Padding...but it has to be entertaining. If you're gonna talk to hear yourself talk, make it as painless as possible for the reader - give em jokes, trivia.... something besides teeth-grinding earnestness.]
So...it's passable. At least you accomplished your main objective, which was to offer useful information to the aspiring vocalist. (Incidentally, I pass no judgment on whether any of this is good or even correct advice; I wouldn't know.)
You really really really need to READ more, Slipp. Wait, let me add two more "reallys". You create your own 'voice' by absorbing & copying others and writing a real whole lot until what emerges is a blend of what you've been influenced by and your own words, churned together like butter & inseparable: an actual style. Here, you're not even close. Start reading the kind of books you've been avoiding all your life and pour as many different prose styles, points of view & types of subject matter as possible into your head, and your word-hole will thank you.
"I look at you, bless God, and I see money!"
Edited by: sickdrjoe at: 7/3/02 1:14:05 pm
Mr weatherbee
Registered User
Posts: 43
(7/3/02 9:02)
Reply Re: My S-A!
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Really wonderful essay. Well thought out, well constructed
AND rational!!!.............................................I think it's copied straight out of "HIGHLIGHT'S" grad4e school magazine.
ISLIPP
Registered User
Posts: 210
(7/3/02 9:49)
Reply Re:
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I hope you'll excuse me if my tone and/or attitude in this post seems innapropriate, but I don't believe you're doing what you should be doing- forgetting that ISLIPP- a person you severely dislike wrote this, and give it a REAL critiquing. (sp?)
So I'm not going to let your negative comments on my writing skills phase me one bit. Some that were constructive, I'll consider, but I know that none of you like me, so most of what you said holds no water.
I have a qualified instructor (which none of you are, which is another reason most of your negative comments hold no water) who has many published works to her name. She has a few good things to say about every assignment I turn in.
And those of you who say I write like a gradeschooler, GET THIS- here is something my instructor for a course in which I'm learning to write for children actually said to me: "Your writing seems to flow on the level of teen or adult readership based on vocabulary, sentence structure and length. I believe you could easily write for adults." Actually, she said this after reviewing one of my fiction assignments. Fiction is my real strong suit, so of course an essay from me wouldn't be as good.
Off the top of my head, I know that I must take Jim's comment about joining 2 sentences to heart. I don't think I have that problem writing fiction.
I'll look for more comments that seem constructive and reflect them, but all of you who already commented here- get your acts together and give it that "REAL critiquing" I mentioned above.
sickdrjoe
Registered User
Posts: 354
(7/3/02 10:30)
Reply
Re: My S-A!
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How sad. That WAS a sincere, valid critique. You're paying that 'private, qualified instructor' - correct? In money, yes?
Had I been in my usual mode, I would have fricasseed your bumbling effort with a sentence or two. Instead I.....ecch, never mind. Write on, William Smallspeare!
PS Fiction's your strong suit? Okay...since you've already turned in this assignment (based on the rave review it's already gotten), and you likely have a sync-copy of it on your computer - post it! No muss, no fuss, no I-need-a-week. Let's see ISLIPP at his very best.
"I look at you, bless God, and I see money!"
Edited by: sickdrjoe at: 7/3/02 10:34:14 am
shempisnumberone
Registered User
Posts: 91
(7/3/02 10:59)
Reply
Re: My S-A!
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What the hell was wrong with my critique? I was honest, and did not bring my dislike for you into it. Can someone else please show me how my critique was biased in any way?
What I see here is a guy who was set from minute one to deflect any critism he recieved. If any of us here were critics for the NY Times you would have dismissed any criticism recieved.
If I had praised your essay, would my opinion have held no water with you? Be honest; if you are you'll say that you would have more than gladly except my praise. Doc is right, this is sad.
It was poorly written, anyone could see that.
"They misunderestimated me."- President Dubya
Edited by: shempisnumberone at: 7/3/02 11:02:11 am
Jamison2
Registered User
Posts: 59
(7/3/02 13:08)
Reply Re: My S-A!
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Hell, I didn't think Slipp would really make it. Although I'm actually swamped
with real woik, let me throw out a cursory review and I'll try to be more
thorough later:
PROS: Though it's been a long time since I was involved in music, some
of the advice given here does seem to be pertinent and worthwhile. I might even try
some of it to see how it works out.
This is written at a level understandable to young teens or maybe adults
who may have trouble reading or learning. Nothing wrong with that.
CONS: Too many misspellings, run-on sentences and inappropriate punctuation. More proofreading
was needed. A little humor might have enlivened things, too. And maybe you could
actually interviewed a voice teacher or a choir director for "expert" seasoning.
I'll give it a C.
sickdrjoe
Registered User
Posts: 355
(7/3/02 13:09)
Reply
Re: My S-A!
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CAH - mon, Jamison, lower the boom and get this comedy over with!
Some of us have been waitin' hours for the stripper!
Whoops, simultaneous posts!
"We've been on the air a little over two months; and did you know not one person has written in to help us? NOT - ONE!!!"
Edited by: sickdrjoe at: 7/3/02 1:10:39 pm
Jamison2
Registered User
Posts: 60
(7/3/02 13:27)
Reply Re: My S-A!
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Got to sign off for a while. Before I go, it IS hard to believe that a 28-year-old
wrote this. Or maybe it isn't, considering what Slipp has told us about himself.
But it comes from a very insulated perspective, almost as if he's been living
in some kind of bubble since age 4 or 5. For someone who supposedly
craves being an author, it's like he's never read much of anything, not evne
comic books. But there's an audience for everything, so one day we might
actually see Eric on "The View" hawking a children's book!
But Slipp, I suggest you start reading more than the Bible and religious
tracts. Swift, Homer, Shakespeare, Poe, Melville, Twain, Hemingway,
Ellison, Hughes, Woolf, Wilde, Faulkner, Roth, Tennessee Williams. Even get some
old Marvel comics and bone up on Stan Lee!
shempisnumberone
Registered User
Posts: 92
(7/3/02 13:33)
Reply
Re: My S-A!
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I hope I get professors like you this coming semester, lol.
"They misunderestimated me."- President Dubya
sickdrjoe
Registered User
Posts: 356
(7/3/02 13:41)
Reply
Re: My S-A!
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Hoo-hooooo!!
Read it and weep, Encyclopaedia Brown!
5 out of 4 critics agree: 'a kid wrote this, right?'
Can't wait to see you do your Cornered Rat mambo on Jamison, now. After all, he didn't pat the point on your head and murmur, " Very good, Eric! Why, with a little .... seasoning and, err, tightening up, you, uhh, could (the check, think about the check) write for, for adults one.......day. Yes. Yes indeed...........Eric, did your mom give you a check for me when she dropped you off today?" like your day-care teacher.
"We've been on the air a little over two months; and did you know not one person has written in to help us? NOT - ONE!!!"
2cool247
Registered User
Posts: 170
(7/3/02 13:56)
Reply
Re: My S-A!
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Hey Slipp, you're a pretty good writter, for a guy that got shot in the gut, and died.
F.D.N.Y. Stand Back 200 Ft.
shempisnumberone
Registered User
Posts: 93
(7/3/02 14:01)
Reply
Re: My S-A!
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The more I ponder this "mystery expert", the more I think Correspondance By Mail Course.
"They misunderestimated me."- President Dubya
shempisnumberone
Registered User
Posts: 94
(7/3/02 14:27)
Reply
Re: My S-A!
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After going over my review, I realize I did make one mistake about adding an "and" to a particular sentence, I read it wrong the first time.
"They misunderestimated me."- President Dubya
ISLIPP
Registered User
Posts: 211
(7/3/02 14:32)
Reply Re:
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Nothing wrong with a correpondence course, especially when this special school is a coula states away.
Okay, I could've spent A LOT more tme proofreading this- Jamisonm's right on that. I could've added a little humor, but nobody here likes my humor anyway, so what's the use? And no- my essay was not dull or boring- not to people who are interested in singing or that like the old commercial jingle.
So you all thought I was going to be my best here, but I failed at doing my best. I often fail at doing my best, probably out of pure laziness.
I'll tell you what, if your crummy reviews were honest, then they were extremely brutally honest. Maybe I better just keep the writing to myself as a private hobby and persue something else. Maybe someone needs a housekeeper. I can't go wrong doing that.
Mr weatherbee
Registered User
Posts: 44
(7/3/02 14:36)
Reply Re: Re:
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Attention K-MART SHOPPERS........CLEANUP ON AISLE 3
Edited by: Mr weatherbee at: 7/3/02 2:38:50 pm
2cool247
Registered User
Posts: 173
(7/3/02 14:37)
Reply
Re: Re:
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"......Maybe someone needs a housekeeper....."
-Islipp
YOU ARE SOOOOOOOO GAY! LMFAO!!!! hahahaha
F.D.N.Y. Stand Back 200 Ft.
ISLIPP
Registered User
Posts: 212
(7/3/02 14:43)
Reply Re:
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PS: I'll have you guys know that I poured all my heart and soul into that piece, as I do with EVERYTHING I write.
Besides- you were probably comparing my writng skils to those of your favorite authors. I'm practically a beginner. I can't be compared with them. Who do you read anyway? Shakespeare? Tolstoy? That's why I got the bad reviews- how am I supposed to match the greats? Get REAL, people!
2cool247
Registered User
Posts: 174
(7/3/02 14:49)
Reply
Re: Re:
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I repeat SLIPP YOU ARE SOOOOOO GAY! lmao
F.D.N.Y. Stand Back 200 Ft.
sickdrjoe
Registered User
Posts: 358
(7/3/02 14:52)
Reply
Re: My S-A!
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...and after going over my review, I realize I did make one mistake, too, writing a review in the first place.
Love those last three grafs. After admitting he can't read music or hack anything past "Chopsticks" (played pianissimo), he forgives us... for not paying him for this essay!
Like they say on the Ginsu Knife commercials - but, wait, there's MORE! A week after I pointedly point out Slipp's childish love of commercial slogans and jingles, he goes for The Deep Finish by quoting his idea of a 'poem' - lyrics for an old soda-commercial jingle - the way you'd close with a passage from "The Waste Land": for a haunting, resonant effect. Slipp, when does Tor Johnson do his cameo in this movie? (And yet, it's perhaps an Idea Whose Time Has Come. Great Literature Meets Product Placement. And if it does come to pass, who better than Slipp to be its progenitor?)
Slipp, you sly dog! Turns out you're the world's most cunning post-ironic deconstructionalist commentator on the spiritual sterility of modern America after all! And here I thought you were a Jerry's Kid.
"We've been on the air a little over two months; and did you know not one person has written in to help us? NOT - ONE!!!"
Edited by: sickdrjoe at: 7/3/02 3:00:21 pm
shempisnumberone
Registered User
Posts: 95
(7/3/02 15:01)
Reply
Re: Re:
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Could you not take it so personally? I cannot tell you how many letters of rejection/constructive criticism I have gotten in the past (from actual publishers), and I never once replied "Do you expect me to be Shakesphere?" Here I am trying to be nice to you for a change and honestly critique your work, and what do the likes of Jamison, Doc, and myself get in return? A fuckin temper tamtrum!
If you poured your heart and soul into that piece it doesn't show. When you aren't coming off as full of yourself (I like music and feel I'm qualified to dole out singing advice despite the fact that I am not a qualified teacher. Qualifications-smaulifications!), it feels like something you have to read and find all the errors on a test.
"They misunderestimated me."- President Dubya
Jamison2
Registered User
Posts: 61
(7/3/02 15:15)
Reply Re: My S-A!
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Oyyyyy!!
Slipp, NO ONE in their right mind expects you to be Dos Passos, or Sidney Sheldon, even. YOU'RE the one who has continually yammered about being
a writer (of fiction, I guess, I never got it straight), but folks who are really
serious about being writers read authors of all stripes to learn something about structure, style
and presenting a viewpoint. You don't even HAVE to read the "masters" if that's going to
be too much of a chore. Read Esquire and GQ to learn how to do profiles. Hell, read
People and US to learn how to do short profiles! Have you ever interviewed anyone
to gain information and perspective on any given subject? That does mean getting into
the real, not VIRTUAL, world and making phone calls, and (God forbid!) maybe even
personal contact, but a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do...
Oh, and don't say you don't have the money to get ahold of all those magazines
and books you should be reading. I woud assume yer local public library
is well-stocked.
Edited by: Jamison2 at: 7/3/02 3:20:07 pm
ISLIPP
Registered User
Posts: 214
(7/3/02 15:20)
Reply Re:
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Jim- I am NOT throwing a temper tantrum and I am NOT full of myself. You gave me an "F". A bigger than life, unmistakable "F". I know I didn't deserve that. How am I supposed to react to something I didn't deserve? My instructor ALWAYS finds a few god things to say about my work. ALWAYS. It's a good thing you aren't a real instructor. You'd probably hand out a compliment the day the crack in the Liberty bell fixes itself.
shempisnumberone
Registered User
Posts: 96
(7/3/02 15:28)
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Oy vey; you wouldn't have deserved an F if you were 15 years old. Even Jamison, who gave you a C, finds it hard to believe a 28yr old wrote it. Your "instructor" holds no water with me! Go to a real school and take a real course.
"They misunderestimated me."- President Dubya
shempisnumberone
Registered User
Posts: 97
(7/3/02 15:31)
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Re: My S-A!
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You want a compliment?!? It was informative, does that make you happy?
"They misunderestimated me."- President Dubya
WrathOfSteve
Registered User
Posts: 54
(7/3/02 15:34)
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Cruisin' down the highway.......
Slipp is in the road.............
Put the pedal to the metal...........
And squash him like a toad.
BURMASHAVE.
This is MY creative writing assignment.
Mr weatherbee
Registered User
Posts: 47
(7/3/02 15:38)
Reply Re: My S-A!
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I'll give him this much, for a non-professional he does at least have the rudimentary knowledge correct. It just seems as if it were being recited though, with no real life , personal experiences musically to back any of it up.
It OK to dream, but GOOD writing COMES from individual, personal experiences, NOT by what a teacher TELLS you.
Just my experience. And this is 2 posts where I've made, nice-nice.
shempisnumberone
Registered User
Posts: 98
(7/3/02 15:39)
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Succinct, humorous, to the point; A+
"They misunderestimated me."- President Dubya
shempisnumberone
Registered User
Posts: 99
(7/3/02 15:45)
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Re: My S-A!
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"It OK to dream, but GOOD writing COMES from individual, personal experiences, NOT by what a teacher TELLS you."
Are you listening Eric?
"They misunderestimated me."- President Dubya
metaldams1978
Registered User
Posts: 152
(7/3/02 15:46)
Reply Weatherbee makes an excellent point
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I agree with Mr. Weatherbee's point about the essay sounding like it had no life experience behind it. It sounded more like an instruction manual than anything with a real sense of personality. SLIPP sounds like he has voice/singing knowledge, but the passion is missing. I've learned that in order to create any great art, whether it be music, painting, clay, literature, etc. one needs life experience, because it is those experiences that inspire one to greatness. A 28 year old who sits around the house all day and feels sorry for himself is not going to have that much worthwhile inside of him or her.
shempisnumberone
Registered User
Posts: 100
(7/3/02 15:53)
Reply
Re: Weatherbee makes an excellent point
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Watch out Doug, you are gonna get Crybaby Cox on your case for being too hard on him. Remember folks, we unqualified rubes must use the same kid gloves as the Mail Order instructor.
"They misunderestimated me."- President Dubya
Mr weatherbee
Registered User
Posts: 48
(7/3/02 16:00)
Reply Re: Weatherbee makes an excellent point
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I dont agree with Metaldams last line.I think EVERYBODY has a story in them. If you HONESTLY wrote about the pain of being ridiculed,of WHY you SO want to "belong". If you told us, honestly how it makes you feel.........THAT would be interesting, heartfelt, REAL and might actually HUMANIZE you
metaldams1978
Registered User
Posts: 153
(7/3/02 16:17)
Reply RE
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Geez Weatherbee, what makes YOU qualified to criticize ME! I'm not Shakesphere y'know!
All kidding aside, I understand what you're getting at. Great art is about honest self-expression. It's just that usually, people with lots of different life experiences have a better understanding of the self to honestly express than someone who experiences very little. However, I suppose there are exceptions to the rule.
Mr weatherbee
Registered User
Posts: 49
(7/3/02 16:38)
Reply Re: RE
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Just trying to be "nice" to Slipster. Every dog needs to get petted now & then.
Edited by: Mr weatherbee at: 7/3/02 5:20:14 pm
Shemp Shady
Registered User
Posts: 36
(7/3/02 16:58)
Reply
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Huh?
Is this ‘Theater of the Absurd’?
After all the $#!+ that SLIPP has posted previously, he finds it apropos to offer a protracted post about one of the most inane and syrupy ads ever to grace the small screen?
SLIPP really does lack a clue. (And he doesn't use the word 'then' enough.)
metaldams1978
Registered User
Posts: 155
(7/3/02 17:00)
Reply RE
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"Just trying to be "nice" to Slipster. Every dog needs to get petted every now & then."
Don't get too attached. That dog you're petting needs to be put too sleep.
Jamison2
Registered User
Posts: 63
(7/3/02 17:04)
Reply Re:
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The subject matter was up to him. The only restriction was that it couldn't
be religious proselytizing or the usual back-and-forth prattle.
Did you really think Slipp was going to give his views on WorldCom,
the Middle East, airport security or women's fashions?
Mr weatherbee
Registered User
Posts: 50
(7/3/02 17:25)
Reply Re:
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You know, after re-re-re-reading this stuff, you guy's are right. He is a complete boob, inexperienced, socially inept & totally without a clue. Sorry to give him the benefit of the doubt. I guess I get a little sentimental around the holiday.
And good "JOEBOTS" obey.
Edited by: Mr weatherbee at: 7/3/02 5:28:46 pm
ISLIPP
Registered User
Posts: 215
(7/3/02 17:50)
Reply Re:
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After what I said about formal lessons, choirs, quartest, trios, duets and solos, HOW DARE you tell me I have no life experience? HOW DARE YOU?
? 90% of that essay is based on personal experience.
Metal- Did you know who the board member I referred to in the esay was? Did his situation sound stunningly familiar? It should've- it was YOU. I gave you a buttload of advice, and how do you thank me? By continuing on insulting me and belittling my essay? Whatta lowlife you are.
Jim- thanks for the one compliment, but "informative" wasn't the only thing I was going for. I sounded like I knew the subject matter backward and forward (except for the climate/high altitudes deal). You have to admit that. You have to admit that adding the jingle at the end was a nice touch. As my instructor would say, the last paragraph and the jingle was nice because they referred back to the beginning. Why not admit that?
Jamison said that he'd try my advice. Why don't the rest of you? You may surprise yourselves.
metaldams1978
Registered User
Posts: 158
(7/3/02 18:01)
Reply RE
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"Metal- Did you know who the board member I referred to in the esay was? Did his situation sound stunningly familiar? It should've- it was YOU. I gave you a buttload of advice, and how do you thank me? By continuing on insulting me and belittling my essay? Whatta lowlife you are."
1. I know who you were referring to.
2. I didn't ask for any advice.
3. The criticism was sincere. Just because you give me advice doesn't mean I owe you a positive review. If you were serious about being a writer, you'd take these negative reviews and learn from them instead of taking them personally. As a bass player, I've had jazz instructors tell me I could work on my timing better. Do I throw a hissy-fit and think the guy is wrong? No. Instead, I take out my metronome and practice, or I even get together with the drummer to practice, and guess what, I improved.
Sten Erin
Registered User
Posts: 22
(7/3/02 18:04)
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"I sounded like I knew the subject matter backward and forward..."
No, you SOUNDED like you’d just copied and pasted a few points from a hospital waiting room brochure called "Singing For Asthmatics", and changed a few of the words around to make everything bland and vaguely off… y’know, your USUAL writing style. You read like a bad Systran translation of a bunch of language-specific idioms.
It’s also hilarious that a guy who admittedly knows nothing about music save what he gleaned from a few singing lessons last year and years of singing hymns in church would write an article from such a patronizing viewpoint… and then denigrate his critics for not being “qualified instructors” fit to lay eyes upon this, er, inimitably written “S-A.” According to your own logic, Slipp, YOU weren’t fit to write this article, because YOU are not a “qualified instructor” of singing.
My review and grade are coming up
Mr weatherbee
Registered User
Posts: 51
(7/3/02 18:25)
Reply Re: Re:
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Ill tell you "HOW I DARE", ERIC!!!!!!
I am a PROFESSIONAL ACTOR. I study with Betty Buckley (Tony Award Winner for Cats, Nominee for Edwin Drood,Abby on 8 Is Enough), work extensively Off Broadway (just finished a production of Weill's musical "Happy End").This DOESNT make me an expert, but perhaps I am MORE INFORMED than you? Someone having MORE EXPERIENCE than you isn't a personal challenge. It originally wasn't even presented as one. But.......once again, you take critism like a white glove slap across the face.
Your "being in a choir/duet/whatever is terrific. I applaud you finding something you love. We merely said your WRITING lacks passion. If you put that in your writing, perhaps it might be different.
Edited by: Mr weatherbee at: 7/3/02 6:40:04 pm
Jamison2
Registered User
Posts: 66
(7/3/02 18:31)
Reply Re: Re:
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I guess the next step is to have Slipp download an audio cut of him crooning.
"Copacabana," anyone?
Mr weatherbee
Registered User
Posts: 53
(7/3/02 18:34)
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"Musscrat Love"......it just FEELS......right
ISLIPP
Registered User
Posts: 217
(7/3/02 18:36)
Reply Re:
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Stench- Don't say I know nothing about music after all I printed in that essasy. I've absorbed A LOT of information throughout my whole life. So what if I don't have a freakin' degree to back it up? Do writers who do articles on different species of animal have to be zoologists, even though they may have raised the animals themselves? Do writers who do articles on the wacky weather of Michigan have to live there if they just visit often?
I didn't lift any of that from ANY stupid manual. It's all from my own head. If it's patronizing, it's only because you all keep coming to it!
Finally, excuse ME for getting all pi**ed off afer seeing Jim's first post, filled with nothing but negativity and a horribly undeserved grade of "F". DrJoe's first post was terrible. He only upped the grade (by a little bit) from what Jim gave me out of SYMPATHY. Mr. Weathsfield had nothing nice to say. Nobody did (except for Jamison saying 1 or 2 things) until Jim amitted it was informative. Even someone who's highly unpopular needs an occassioal pat on the back and a word of support. Me- I'd go out of my way to make a highly unpopular person feel good about themselves and encourage them after receiving such constant bashing. That's just the kind of person I am.
Mr weatherbee
Registered User
Posts: 55
(7/3/02 18:42)
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Naaahhhh...........................IT"S TOO EASY!!!!!
Sten Erin
Registered User
Posts: 24
(7/3/02 18:47)
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I’m using YOUR OWN LOGIC, Slipp. Personally, I believe it is incumbent upon EVERY reader to think critically about whatever information is being served him or her, and that every reader with at least an average IQ is qualified to do so. YOU, however, blew off the advice given earlier in this thread on basis of no one here being a “qualified instructor” of some illustrious correspondence course. NOW you wanna give me some sh it about how your not having a degree shouldn’t be held against you? Could you be at least a LITTLE consistent?
Edited by: Sten Erin at: 7/3/02 6:48:26 pm
Jamison2
Registered User
Posts: 67
(7/3/02 19:07)
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As Frau Schmidt sez in "Cabaret,": Mine head is schpinning!
Signing off until Sunday; don't usually take holidays off, but when I realized I'd
worked on every July 4th since 1988, I figured it was time to stop and smell the
fireworks.
Hope to see MINORITY REPORT, THE BOURNE IDENTITY and WINDTALKERS. (hey,
it ain't all films noir and COLGATE COMEDY HOUR kinescopes). I get the feeling this
thread could be into its seventh page by the time I log-on again Sunday morning.
Slipp, I hope you've fortified the battlements and have donned your armor, cause
the Joe-Bots are just getting warmed up, it seems.
Sten Erin
Registered User
Posts: 25
(7/3/02 19:24)
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I’m signing off too… the Taste of Chicago beckons from below my apartment window. The thought of all that beer, over-priced greasy food and a closely packed crowd of several million [with at least 60% of ‘em pickpockets] while it’s 102 in the shade is calling me. Don’t worry Slipp, I’ll be back with your grade soon enough.
Jamison, MINORITY REPORT ain’t a bad flick, and I’m not just saying that in support of Spielberg’s gratuitous use of an Ass Cam that often rest its eye on the glorious rear end of Tom Cruise. That’s GREAT, but it’s actually a pretty good movie even when Tom’s ass and Colin Farrell’s handsome face aren’t even on the screen. Have a great holiday weekend and enjoy your 4th.
Nosehonk
Registered User
Posts: 67
(7/3/02 19:28)
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SLIPP, the essay WAS informative. (I actually read it when you first posted it but I was too tired to really give a critique) But writing ain't nothing if it doesn't flow. Some sections of your essay came off as though Angillus had written it. I don't know SLIPP. I might be alone in this, but when I right an essay, I don't sound a THING like I do when I'm posting. Because the voice, in most cases, is entirely different. With your paper, it sounded exactly like..Well, YOU. And I suppose you can ride that "unique style" cloud as long as you can, but I can tell you, after taking at least one writing class in each of the past 6 years, it float like a lead balloon with most instructors.
That's all the critique you get from me. Because it is evident, after reading a full day's worth of posts that you are the unholiest of hypocrites. You can't ask for criticism, get it, and scream "LIAR!" or "FOUL!" everytime. You see, I explained this same thing to my younger brother (who is exactly HALF YOUR AGE) not long ago, and he understood.
Sooner or later, you going to have to realize that the world is NOT against you, SLIPP. But rather, by your own actions, it's the other way around.
Sir Simon Milligan...Master of funk...AND EVIL.
Mr weatherbee
Registered User
Posts: 56
(7/3/02 19:33)
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Hey.......
I have VERY FOND memories of "Taste of Chicago". Lived there from '83-87. Have a "OLD STYLE" & Brat for me & enjoy.
ISLIPP
Registered User
Posts: 219
(7/3/02 20:05)
Reply Re:
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Didn't I say earlier in this thread that I will go through it again and make notes of all the criticism that seemed constructive- or was that someone who just looked, acted and sounded like me?
For all of you that meant any of your comments in your reviews as constructive rather than destructive, I thank you. I willdo my best to ferret out the constructive ones and take them to heart.
Like I said in my first response-post in this thread, I'm sorry if my tone/attitude seemed innapropriate. But you know, I've had to continually shove one long-range career idea after another aside. It gets discouraging and putsme in a bitter mood. Here I am, 28 years-old and I can't see being in a long-range career any time soon. I'm going to have to retire 60 years from now, from a job that just about anyone can do that MIGHT keep me in my one-room apartment.
Sigh.
metaldams1978
Registered User
Posts: 160
(7/3/02 20:20)
Reply Bring back the porcupine!
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"It gets discouraging and putsme in a bitter mood. Here I am, 28 years-old and I can't see being in a long-range career any time soon. I'm going to have to retire 60 years from now, from a job that just about anyone can do that MIGHT keep me in my one-room apartment."
Will Benny Hinn PLEASE resurrect Larry Fine from the dead so we can get SLIPP a good violin player for his posts!?
Sten Erin
Registered User
Posts: 28
(7/4/02 4:02)
Reply
Re: Bring back the porcupine!
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Thanks, Weatherbee. I had an Old Style for just about every registered member of this forum, and that makes for a VERY enjoyable evening.
Well, here ya go, Slipp. Honest and detailed appraisal. My precious beer buzz & 40 mins of my life—all yours. You blow this off and I’ll fuckin’ KILL you. Admittedly my tone is snarky, but that’s my style. I’ve used it to critique everyone from myself to Daniel Defoe and can’t imagine why I should treat you differently.
In any case, I really must say, Slipp—you ARE improving. That brilliantly doctored up article from the other day had misspellings and capitalization errors within the fuckin’ TITLE. This time your first misspelling doesn’t come until the first sentence! Congratulations! Not making a mistake until you get to the body of the article is INDEED a step in the right direction. Keep up the good work, kid. Maybe one day, you won’t make a mistake until the SECOND paragraph!
Now maybe I’m just a sticker for this, but the 11 misspellings in this essay are an unpardonable sin. Slipp, you’re sitting at a computer, you’ve got access to a spell check—why, oh WHY don’t you ever use it? This is ridiculous, and just laziness in the extreme. These are things that you could correct with very little effort, but obviously you haven’t got the respect for your readers or yourself as a writer to do so. Even grade school children have the good sense to check their spelling before submitting an assignment. Why don’t you?
On the plus side, your essay IS informative. Then again, so are broadcasts on the Weather Channel, but who the hell wants a transcript? Your article is BORING, and that’s a major problem, because no matter HOW much information you’ve got to share with your audience, when they can’t get through that first paragraph without dozing off, you’ve lost them forever. This has absolutely nothing to do with your subject matter, and EVERYthing to do with your style. In his ASPECTS OF THE NOVEL, E. M Forster is an engaging enough writer to be able to spin off an entire chapter on the otherwise boring subject of “Pattern and Rhythm” in writing—but he never once loses you. So it’s not WHAT you write about, Slipp, it’s HOW you write it. It is obvious in every paragraph of ASPECTS that Forster is a genius who knows everything there is to know about reading and writing, yet his knowledge is never oppressive, and his tone never patronizing. With YOUR article, however, the reader gets the feeling that the author fancies himself a super fantastic writing and singing genius who feels he is graciously deigning to offer some advice to his less able audience. This becomes tiresome by the second paragraph. Work on having a little respect for your audience and perhaps we’ll respect you. Then again, with all those spelling errors, probably not.
Your next big problem is in the construction of the essay itself. Put mildly, it fuckin’ SUCKS. The first sentence of the article, which is supposed to pull your audience in, get ‘em excited about your topic and interested in what you have to say is, “I remember a Coca-Cola commercial from the early 1980's that might actualy [sic] have been brought back from the early '70's.” Even assuming that your prospective audience is a bunch of advertisement saturated idiots, why should they care about this, and why should they trust anything you have to say when you couldn’t even be bothered to verify the fuckin’ decade the commercial aired in? You spend the rest of the article patronizing your audience and attempting to set yourself up as Super Fantastic Singing and Writing Genius, but in your very first sentence you characterized yourself as a dolt who hasn’t even covered the most basic levels of research for the article. Somehow “I've spent a lot of my life dreaming, imagining, thinking about and planning music-related scenarios” and the fact that instead of getting a job, you’ve spent the 10 yrs you’ve been out of high school singing in the church choir because it gave you something to do on Wednesday nights, does not convince me that you “have a good enough handle on the subject to be able to successfully help people who don't think they can sing.” Your next 3 paragraphs—the main purpose of which are apparently to further prostrate yourself before Metaldams in a yet another desperate bid for his friendship—should be condensed into one. Then, the next 2 paragraphs after THAT should ALSO be condensed into one. Done correctly, this part of the essay wouldn’t be half bad. The “other things to consider” segment isn’t too badly laid out either, though it DOES sound like it’s cribbed from another source. Uber alles, this is not a bad part of the article, even DESPITE the condescending tone that permeates it, mostly because the paragraph on high expectations adds a humanistic touch. Good job.
The following paragraph and those noxious song lyrics, however, are so indescribably awful that I can hardly bring myself to discuss them. WHAT THE HELL WERE YOU THINKING? Earlier in this thread, you explained you were attempting to use the song lyrics to tie ideas presented in the first paragraph to those in your conclusion. Unfortunately, the only idea that gets driven home here is the one that says you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about. By your admission, you haven’t got any knack for this sort of thing, you can’t play any instruments… you can’t even read music! That you would attempt to somehow marry a grammatically repugnant, condescendingly worded admission of ignorance with some sort of bizarre, wannabe altruistic wish to help the world sing simply boggles the mind, and actually kinda creeps me out. Gee, but you’re nuts.
On the whole, a disappointing effort from a literary standpoint, but substantially better than I expected.
Grade: C-…. you fuckin’ lunatic.
WrathOfSteve
Registered User
Posts: 57
(7/4/02 4:36)
Reply Re: Bring back the porcupine!
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But Sten , what would you do for a Klondike bar?
ISLIPP
Registered User
Posts: 234
(7/4/02 4:42)
Reply Re: Bring back the porcupine!
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All I'm gonna say is that I already explained a LONG TIME AGO that I don't HAVE spell check, oh spelling queen supreme.
Electroencephalocardiagraph!
SPELL THAT!
Nosehonk
Registered User
Posts: 71
(7/4/02 4:47)
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Re: Bring back the porcupine!
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LMAO!!! Steve I nearly posted that same exact thing...
SLIPP, how the FUC K do you not have a spell check?
Sir Simon Milligan...Master of funk...AND EVIL.
Sten Erin
Registered User
Posts: 33
(7/4/02 5:31)
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That gets a rueful chuckle out of me, Steve.
Damn it to hell. Right before I die I’m sure I’ll think of this critique and curse myself for having wasted 40 precious minutes of life on a fuckin’ lunatic.
Sten Erin
Registered User
Posts: 34
(7/4/02 5:35)
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Re: Bring back the porcupine!
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And Slipp..... electroencephalocardiagraph is, uh, how do you say? Oh yes... she iz made up word. She cannot be found on ze google or in la dictionnaire. You are a fuckin' lunatic.
